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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 377343 times)

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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #575 on: March 01, 2019, 03:13:26 am »

Are LL and Jimmmm equal in your eyes or do you see Jimmmmmmmm as scummier, hence the vote?

Aka, could you just as easily be voting LL?
I could be voting LaLight, but Jimmmmm has more votes on him currently.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #576 on: March 01, 2019, 03:15:36 am »

All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
B) it does not feel planned.  That is a terrible conclusion

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 
Absolutely not.  This idea needs to be buried immediately.

Excuse me, but if I may:

A) I did not attempt to state that offense should or should not be taken.
Then you clearly need to work on your phrasing.
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Chickenwarlord

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #577 on: March 01, 2019, 03:22:37 am »

Chicken, my boy! How much have you read past games? Did you do that at all? Do you know anyone's meta? Maybe at least Gloobles? Also, how active have you been these past days? Will you be here at deadline?
I haven't really done very much reading of past games. I think just a bit of the Ghibli Mafia thread. I do have a modest understanding of Glooble's meta.

I should be here to move at the deadline should my stance change.

I don’t think MiX is a great option today, Scum don’t typically want to be antagonizers early. He’s shifty and weird, but he is also scumhunting emphatically early, when there is no need to do that as scum.
Agreed. MiX is definitely mixing things up and maybe being a bit too eager. I'm not willing to say that I have a town read there, but certainly wouldn't want MiX as a day 0 lynch target.

faust is actually right, Garak should target his guess for most likely NK and top scumread, and not crumb the NK guess.
If Garak does plan to use his power tonight, this is probably the best way to do it.
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LaLight

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #578 on: March 01, 2019, 03:33:27 am »

I find it really hard to participate and I don't want to be lynched. Most of pressing matters were discussed and I don't feel like I can add anything to them, all I have is reading the tone of certain players, that said, I will make a reads list. Not that it would make me less scummy, but well
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #579 on: March 01, 2019, 03:34:11 am »

All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.

However, I really don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative. If MiX's playstyle is to wind people up to see what they'll spill, he could be doing so as any alignment. It seems quite plausible that frustrated/annoyed town will say things that he can successfully twist to get a mislynch through.

I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:
Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...
What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.

I want to respond to this with the preface that if anything I say here comes off as disrespectful - it is 100% unintentional.

This is a game. Based on social interaction to determine a winning faction. It is publicly hosted, so I suppose there is nothing keeping children from it, but I for one (potentially wrong I accept) assume that all players I am talking to are adults.
Aggression should be an assumed part of this game. If we had arguments about one-sided aggression every time it happened on Mafia FDS, we would literally never talk about anything else. That is how we put players on their toes, force interactions that are un-wanted, skum hunt, etc.

Rudeness should not be acceptable, by any means. It is a game, for fun. However, we should not discourage players from interactions outside, even if forceful, as long as they are within the pledge terms. No one should feel like they cannot follow a skum read up based on irrelevant factors such as "entitled male" or "grown woman". Those are bias factors from outside the game state that should not be included. It would probably be better if you just referred to them as "they".  That sounds sarcastic, but I genuinely it not meant to be.

As equally much as you care about the "They vs He vs She" part of a game, I care about the integrity the game. I love all games, but they are only fun because they are games. The real world needs to be respected in games, but also we have to accept that we are playing a game... I get that that is super convoluted, but if you read it over once or twice I think it will make sense I hope.



---Whatever, this is a concept that has come up A LOT in games on this forum since I have started (which has not been that hell of a long time). I am bias, because I am aware that because of the way I post it can come off as rude and I know I do not intend it to be. But really everyone should just dial it back on this stuff. And most importantly, for the sake of the game, at least consider it NAI in regards to these games.


This is literally the last thing I will discuss on this topic during this game. Please file all complaints to your local post office trash bin. If you actually have something you would like to discuss that would make the community better - PM me when the game is over. I will not respond to anything regarding this for the rest of this game.

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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #580 on: March 01, 2019, 03:40:34 am »

1. Jimmmmm is not participating which I can see him do as both alignments. Mostly I would keep him alive, he's a scary power late in the game if town.
2. UmbrageOfSnow - was active and cool, got a lot of townreads from different people and kind of disappeared?
3. LaLight - me, struggling with going here.
4. DatSwan - Did he do anything?
5. mcmcsalot - Somewhat here, not really noticeable, but I liked that he voted for e, because I felt like me and mcmc got the same feeling
6. Glooble - can't read yet
7. WestCoastDidds - she's still awesome. We're yet to see scum!Didds, but for now I feel like it's good old town!her.
8. SpaceAnemone - Struggling as much as I am, I don't really want to lycnh them, see Jimmmmm
9. Shraeye - I get the different feeling from when we were masons. Could definitely vote there
10. MiX - Don't want to lynch cause I still feel guilt over the last game but at one point, sure. Also, yeah, aggression made me quit Mafia for some time once and also broke two games I was in. It isn't fun.
11. faust - let's see D2
12. ashersky - His activity level changed as we saw in Radch, I can't read him yet. For now feel townie
13. 2.71828..... - strong feeling of actilurking. I don't know, it's like I am reading his posts and then I can't remember what they were about...
14. Robz888 - always up for Robz lynch, you know
15. Awaclus - Is he in this game?
16. Uncleeurope - I am scared of him as of now. But rather would not lynch
17. raerae - don't remember anything from them here
18. chickenwarlord - meh?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #581 on: March 01, 2019, 03:40:57 am »

All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
B) it does not feel planned.  That is a terrible conclusion

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 
Absolutely not.  This idea needs to be buried immediately.

Excuse me, but if I may:

A) I did not attempt to state that offense should or should not be taken.
Then you clearly need to work on your phrasing.

I changed my mind after the original post. It is not my position to decide where offense should or should not be taken. I simply stand on my own opinion at this point that I do not think that offense was meant to be taken at all in this matter.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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LaLight

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #582 on: March 01, 2019, 03:46:00 am »

All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.

However, I really don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative. If MiX's playstyle is to wind people up to see what they'll spill, he could be doing so as any alignment. It seems quite plausible that frustrated/annoyed town will say things that he can successfully twist to get a mislynch through.

I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:
Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...
What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.

I want to respond to this with the preface that if anything I say here comes off as disrespectful - it is 100% unintentional.

This is a game. Based on social interaction to determine a winning faction. It is publicly hosted, so I suppose there is nothing keeping children from it, but I for one (potentially wrong I accept) assume that all players I am talking to are adults.
Aggression should be an assumed part of this game. If we had arguments about one-sided aggression every time it happened on Mafia FDS, we would literally never talk about anything else. That is how we put players on their toes, force interactions that are un-wanted, skum hunt, etc.

Rudeness should not be acceptable, by any means. It is a game, for fun. However, we should not discourage players from interactions outside, even if forceful, as long as they are within the pledge terms. No one should feel like they cannot follow a skum read up based on irrelevant factors such as "entitled male" or "grown woman". Those are bias factors from outside the game state that should not be included. It would probably be better if you just referred to them as "they".  That sounds sarcastic, but I genuinely it not meant to be.

As equally much as you care about the "They vs He vs She" part of a game, I care about the integrity the game. I love all games, but they are only fun because they are games. The real world needs to be respected in games, but also we have to accept that we are playing a game... I get that that is super convoluted, but if you read it over once or twice I think it will make sense I hope.



---Whatever, this is a concept that has come up A LOT in games on this forum since I have started (which has not been that hell of a long time). I am bias, because I am aware that because of the way I post it can come off as rude and I know I do not intend it to be. But really everyone should just dial it back on this stuff. And most importantly, for the sake of the game, at least consider it NAI in regards to these games.


This is literally the last thing I will discuss on this topic during this game. Please file all complaints to your local post office trash bin. If you actually have something you would like to discuss that would make the community better - PM me when the game is over. I will not respond to anything regarding this for the rest of this game.

I would very much like to respond to this.

As a person who underwent a lot of... let's say aggression in my life, I personally feel 100 times worse when anyone is even irritated with me. If you will have time, skim over some games I played whren I just came here, I was constantly apologizing to people for scumreading them. The reason I am telling this is that you do not know the background of a person and what can really move them or make them feel uncomfortable. I know Mafia can be rude, I played couple of games on other sites where people openly insult each other and wish others the worst things, but the reason I am staying here on fds is that we don't do such things. There is always something that most of people understand not to do, like insults, also there are things that we need to be opened on — like gender issues. But for me personally — and I believe for some others — winning the game is not superior to keeping it friendly. We are a relatively small closed community, we all know each other for quite a long time and doing, say, intentional gender mistakes in one game to determine if Space is scum by basically insulting them is not going to work. Never.
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LaLight

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #583 on: March 01, 2019, 03:46:53 am »

not to fall into meta conversation, we can continue after the game. As for the game, let's please stay calm and friendly. I know you all are great people.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #584 on: March 01, 2019, 04:08:21 am »

Unfortunately we have to have this discussion now because it affects how we read the game and otherwise scum can use it to manipulate the flow of the game to their advantage.

MiX appears to be a bit of an eccentric but I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all. I'm not really a huge fan of treating people differently on the basis of age or gender so Didds being an adult woman is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #585 on: March 01, 2019, 04:11:32 am »

I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #586 on: March 01, 2019, 04:14:13 am »

I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.

It matters.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #587 on: March 01, 2019, 04:16:00 am »

I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #588 on: March 01, 2019, 04:16:33 am »

I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.


double click. I did not mean to quote this.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #589 on: March 01, 2019, 04:20:52 am »

I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.

Intent does matter, though.

I really wish we could abandon this whole thing, it is needlessly exploding a small situatuation into something much larger than what should be discussed here.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #590 on: March 01, 2019, 04:22:53 am »

I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.

Intent does matter, though.

I really wish we could abandon this whole thing, it is needlessly exploding a small situatuation into something much larger than what should be discussed here.

this. to make it clear... as I attempted to. I do NOT want there to be discussion about this IN THIS GAME. Discussion - sure. Right now, we should focus on the game.
We are a pretty tight nit group. I assume no one is intentionally attempting to offend anyone else.
#thoughtthatcounts
#hugitout
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #591 on: March 01, 2019, 04:25:06 am »

I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.

END OF DISCUSSION

Thank you for your understanding.

MiX is definitely mixing things up

I live for this. Also, do you think Glooble's following his townmeta?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #592 on: March 01, 2019, 04:27:35 am »

This isn't literary theory- we're not dealing with a death of the author situation. We are dealing with living breathing beings on both ends and no one can invalidate a gut reaction.
It doesn't matter how it was intended - an initial visceral reaction to impolite aggression can't be discounted because the other side didn't seek to elicit that specific response. We ALL have to deal with the fallout when someone's personal boundaries are breached and make changes so there isn't a another.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #593 on: March 01, 2019, 04:29:07 am »

I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.

END OF DISCUSSION

Thank you for your understanding.
You know I was trying to be charitable but clearly Space's assessment of you is spot on.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #594 on: March 01, 2019, 04:31:10 am »

I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.

END OF DISCUSSION

Thank you for your understanding.

MiX is definitely mixing things up

I live for this. Also, do you think Glooble's following his townmeta?

Glooble is town imo.... I am basing that on exactly one game, but I suspected him as skum for like all of that game and then he was town and he is hitting all those points.

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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #595 on: March 01, 2019, 04:32:19 am »

I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.

Intent does matter, though.

I really wish we could abandon this whole thing, it is needlessly exploding a small situatuation into something much larger than what should be discussed here.
*sigh*

Yes this is hyperbole. I thought you of all people would understand. But Awaclus's post seems to imply that if insult was not intended, then everything is peachy. It's not.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #596 on: March 01, 2019, 04:34:50 am »

I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline.

It's not anti-town to get people riled up.

Yes this is hyperbole. I thought you of all people would understand. But Awaclus's post seems to imply that if insult was not intended, then everything is peachy. It's not.

I'm not trying to find out whether or not everything is peachy, I'm trying to find out whether or not any of the people involved are scum.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #597 on: March 01, 2019, 04:34:59 am »

I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.

END OF DISCUSSION

Thank you for your understanding.
You know I was trying to be charitable but clearly Space's assessment of you is spot on.

Move on man. not being bossy, just what are we gaining from it at this point? At least for now. Or at the minimum at least until we are not 30 hours to DL. If you insist just wait for tomorrow.
 I am so sorry now I even posted the damn thing, I meant to be more of a #Go_FDS_FAM thing... not a #TheirCanOnlyBeOneHighlander_FDS thing...
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #598 on: March 01, 2019, 04:38:37 am »

I hate it that the two of you have your stuff turned to "offline". Many nights of sitting around wondering if I am gonna be talking to myself or if I get to talk to another person.
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Chickenwarlord

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #599 on: March 01, 2019, 04:43:24 am »

I am so sorry now I even posted the damn thing, I meant to be more of a #Go_FDS_FAM thing... not a #TheirCanOnlyBeOneHighlander_FDS thing...
Could you explain to me what those acronyms are for? I'm not readily familiar with all the shorthand.
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*insert chicken with a sword and shield here*
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