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[Glooble]

I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.

This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.

I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.

In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were able to make very informed decisions most nights.

This quote actually makes me not want to lynch Awaclus today. What he says here is undoubtably true, and I think if he'd rolled scum again its more likely he would have tried to get town to make the same mistakes than point those mistakes out of towncred. But WiFoM as awlays.

[Uncleeurope]

I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

[Glooble]

I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I don't understand what you're saying here.

[shraeye]

More for myself than anyone else:

Day 1 ends on Saturday at 8am FT.  So, 46ish hours from now...

Holy smokes!

[shraeye]

Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

[shraeye]

I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faust’s Jimm vote

Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.

Can someone on this e wagon please point out where its coming from? And don't use the words "seems" or "feels".

I think as Uncle's explanation makes clear, it's not possible.

I know that I’m not on the wagon (yet) but it seems to me that e feels scummy.

e is a sheepy sheepy wagon; vote analysis will NOT be useful if he is our lynch.  For people who are against my brilliant no-lynch-is-always-an-option movement, you all seem very excited to create a SUUUUPER uninformative lynch.  Shame shame shame.

[shraeye]

I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.

[raerae]

Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

Honey, I hate you for so many other reasons.  (Ex. Where is my spare key?!)

[2.71828.....]

So, kind of at the point where there is actually a non-zero chance that I get lynched today.

Is there any other case except "he feels off"?

And for those people with the feels, is there anything specific that I can comment on?

[shraeye]

All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.

A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
B) it does not feel planned.  That is a terrible conclusion

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 

Absolutely not.  This idea needs to be buried immediately.

[Glooble]

I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.

Pushing things on day one is scummy though. Because there's so little to go on. Eventually we do have to reach a consensus, which is why I was looking at the wagons we already have people on and trying to see what the least bad option was. I settled on Jimmm, I laid out my reasoning. I realized the hypocrisy of my reasoning re: e and shraeye, so I decided to reread shraeye. Didn't find much that screamed town- didn't find anything that screamed scum either. I did stumble on that Awaclus post while I was doing the reread because we have two people voting for Awaclus right now and I wanted to point that out in case it changed their minds.

I agree with you my lynch would be somewhat informative, because I've been contributing. But that also makes me more valuable to have around on later days. In other ways my lynch wouldn't be very informative because while I've been making a lot of posts, there haven't been a lot of votes on me, or even a huge amount of interaction with my posts- in fact I've felt pretty invisible until just now, despite my attempts to contribute.

[2.71828.....]

I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.

Pushing things on day one is scummy though. Because there's so little to go on. Eventually we do have to reach a consensus, which is why I was looking at the wagons we already have people on and trying to see what the least bad option was. I settled on Jimmm, I laid out my reasoning. I realized the hypocrisy of my reasoning re: e and shraeye, so I decided to reread shraeye. Didn't find much that screamed town- didn't find anything that screamed scum either. I did stumble on that Awaclus post while I was doing the reread because we have two people voting for Awaclus right now and I wanted to point that out in case it changed their minds.

I agree with you my lynch would be somewhat informative, because I've been contributing. But that also makes me more valuable to have around on later days. In other ways my lynch wouldn't be very informative because while I've been making a lot of posts, there haven't been a lot of votes on me, or even a huge amount of interaction with my posts- in fact I've felt pretty invisible until just now, despite my attempts to contribute.

I absolutely and totally disagree with the bolded/underlined portion of this quote.

Scum does not want to push things because they don't want to commit to anything.  Town should never be afraid to be bold about their reads and push them.

[Glooble]

I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.

Pushing things on day one is scummy though. Because there's so little to go on. Eventually we do have to reach a consensus, which is why I was looking at the wagons we already have people on and trying to see what the least bad option was. I settled on Jimmm, I laid out my reasoning. I realized the hypocrisy of my reasoning re: e and shraeye, so I decided to reread shraeye. Didn't find much that screamed town- didn't find anything that screamed scum either. I did stumble on that Awaclus post while I was doing the reread because we have two people voting for Awaclus right now and I wanted to point that out in case it changed their minds.

I agree with you my lynch would be somewhat informative, because I've been contributing. But that also makes me more valuable to have around on later days. In other ways my lynch wouldn't be very informative because while I've been making a lot of posts, there haven't been a lot of votes on me, or even a huge amount of interaction with my posts- in fact I've felt pretty invisible until just now, despite my attempts to contribute.

I absolutely and totally disagree with the bolded/underlined portion of this quote.

Scum does not want to push things because they don't want to commit to anything.  Town should never be afraid to be bold about their reads and push them.

And I absolutely disagree with you. Town shouldn't be afraid to push a lynch that they have some evidence for. "He's just rubbing me the wrong way, let's lynch him" is not towny behavior.

[Glooble]

Reads are extremely subjective, especially on day one. There's value in sharing them, but pushing them seems like a recipe for mislynch. But I guess you've played a lot more than I have.

[MiX]

Reads are extremely subjective, especially on day one. There's value in sharing them, but pushing them seems like a recipe for mislynch. But I guess you've played a lot more than I have.

What do you suggest town does near the end of D1 then? Keep interacting? How would we (attempt to, shraeye) lynch anyone if we don't trust our reads? No: we need to push our gut, ultimately it's what mafia's all about.

@Glooble, I have a feeling I asked this already, but how would you describe your meta?

[Uncleeurope]

So, kind of at the point where there is actually a non-zero chance that I get lynched today.

Is there any other case except "he feels off"?

And for those people with the feels, is there anything specific that I can comment on?

As near as I can tell my wariness spawns from you having some assertions early on regarding certain players that seemed to be strong despite weird evidence. Weird. Scummy, even, but not enough for me to have a whole lot of confidence yet in a vote.

That being said, Gloobie interests me, and Robz as well.

I also think this weird dance going on between gloobie, Shraeye, e, MiX and Faust is weird. Lots of people getting the “yeah, they are town” or whatever. Don’t have strong opinions there one way or the other, just seems a bit faster for some of those claims than I would have done.

Also, Unvote, so people stop considering Awaclus because he has multiple votes.

[Glooble]

Reads are extremely subjective, especially on day one. There's value in sharing them, but pushing them seems like a recipe for mislynch. But I guess you've played a lot more than I have.

What do you suggest town does near the end of D1 then? Keep interacting? How would we (attempt to, shraeye) lynch anyone if we don't trust our reads? No: we need to push our gut, ultimately it's what mafia's all about.

If five people independently find e scummy, there's probably something to that. Some specific thing he has said that one of those people can point to to try and convince the rest of us. I haven't seen anyone offer such a thing. I on the other hand, have provided a specific Jimmmm post that seems scummy to me and why it seems scummy to me. If everyone does that, if everyone justifies their votes better than with a "gut feeling", and then everyone else can look at that justification and decide if they agree with it, that's how we advance on day one.

@Glooble, I have a feeling I asked this already, but how would you describe your meta?

I would describe my meta as "evolving". It changes from game to game as I learn new things. I try very hard not to react emotionally or take votes as attacks, but I'm an emotional person so sometimes I do. I'm anxious. I freak out when there's a wagon on me, regardless of alignment.

This game- what you see is what you get. I ask questions. I clarify when I don't understand something. I point out when a post feels towny or scummy to me. But I point out the specific post and why. I discuss the setup if there is something that I think will be helpful for town to know, won't be harmful for scum to know, and doesn't feel obvious to me. I'm always up for strategizing. Mostly I just want people to talk because at the end of the day one of us is probably going to get lynched, and I'd like to get something out of that lynch.

[Uncleeurope]

Your meta is evolving and this game what we see is what we get, eh?

Vote: Gloobie

[faust]

He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 

Boo.

[shraeye]

He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 

Boo.

Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.

Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity. 

That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.

[Uncleeurope]

He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 

Boo.

Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.

Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity. 

That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.

I would lynch an inactive person over nobody 80% of the time. That being said, the inactive player is Robz over CWL, IMO.

[Uncleeurope]

(That being said I would lynch nobody over a town read 95% of the time)

[MiX]

Chicken, my boy! How much have you read past games? Did you do that at all? Do you know anyone's meta? Maybe at least Gloobles? Also, how active have you been these past days? Will you be here at deadline?

Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as.

So you also think Didds isn't playing as usual? Have you played with her? How would you best describe her town meta? I think I have a good feel but I want to hear from someone else.

Thank you for your answer. Doesn't change much, but I am forced to accept that town in general had the same thoughts as you, which means I can't scumread you for it. The question, however...well. Anyway, thx.

Also people are saying MiX vs Didds is town vs town and, well, if with less information than me people say that, maybe I'm just tunnelling......

I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

This has been your first post that I truly agree with. Which reminds me, you're been heavily lurking, your biggest impact has been this, the setup talk at the start and saying "I would lynch Glooble". Can you give a reason for your vote on E? I believe yours is the most important one of them all.

Who'll be here at deadline? I know I will.


Okay, big(?) post done! Time for good old fashioned read lists!

[2.71828.....]

I should be on at deadline as well

[Glooble]

I can get up early to be here at deadline I guess.