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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 377429 times)

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #450 on: February 28, 2019, 01:37:26 am »

Commenting on FoS: in my opinion it is silly. I guess it just highlights a scum read that you don't want to vote for....which again, just vote for them. Or not.

I prefer just giving everyone a fair shot. I feel like a Voltaire inspired Way Too Early Reads list is in order, but not before breakfast
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #451 on: February 28, 2019, 01:43:00 am »

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Same here. Honestly there were some pretty baffling leaps involved in the entire affair. MiX seems to be trying really hard to stir up something, which definitely feels like a fairly botched town play to try and get some sort of lynch going - but a very poorly thought out and executed one. Not sure if I buy it though.
 
They feel like they have been flying under the radar and I didn't really like their chicken vote
I would definitely like to see more discussion from them considering their rather unceremonious vote drop.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #452 on: February 28, 2019, 02:05:43 am »

I feel like I wasn't particularly misrepresenting you, unless I misunderstand something. When you made that comment to me, I'd expressed surprise that someone had any read on Ash from two posts, and you suggested that it's possible to read alignment from two posts if it's possible for 200K posts. Then when discussing Chickenwarlord, you equated his two posts to an implied zero posts (because "other people have posted"). What did I miss?
None of the people to vote for Chickenwarlord have expressed any sort of read on him beyond voting. So if they do have a scumread, I want them to clarify, because it doesn't look like it.

FWIW, I think unless there's something with the information content of an undisputable scumslip, then any post can only give partial indication of an alignment, and you need an accumulation of posts before anyone's alignment swings significantly away from the default assumption. (I'm feeling pleased with myself for not saying "prior" after that whole discussion with Haddock in your Radch mafia game).
Yes but as you say post post can give indication. Obviously reads based on more posts will be better most of the time, but well it is D1.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #453 on: February 28, 2019, 02:08:40 am »

I wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons. Lynching Dukat means not lynching a useful PR. It also means removing a liability. Of course the UB changes the first part, and makes it so that it largely does not matter whom we lynch from a PR perspective.

Much as I like D1s, I also like utilizing setup info to my advantage, and in an open setup if there is a good plan it outweighs reads for me. Especially in multiball where scum can legitimately scumhunt and thus is even harder to catch.

And that's better (disregarding the UB and PR usefulness) than lynching Dukat the day before LYLO why?
Why disregarding that? That is the major benefit. If we're lynching Eddie, we are not lynching some important role.

Also we don't know when LyLo is exactly because the number of deaths per night fluctuates and we don't know how many scums we have.

Also, are you giving Uncleeurope less towncred for his claim because you suggested it?
No, I think he was genuine in saying that he wanted to claim all along. Not that I am giving towncred for that.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #454 on: February 28, 2019, 02:12:30 am »

Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_

MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?

I am a firm believer that I should be aggressive here and that Didds can take it.
Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.

It is also a myth that playing mafia well somehow requires you to be uncivil.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #455 on: February 28, 2019, 02:14:08 am »

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Great, so everyone gets to do "let's claim what roles we do/do not have" game.

Vote: Jimmmmm because there is no reason town should make that post.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #456 on: February 28, 2019, 02:18:30 am »

Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.
Also victim blaming. Suddenly it's not you who is at fault for improper behaviour, but the other person who "couldn't take it".
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #457 on: February 28, 2019, 03:57:13 am »

Ok that's a lot of responses. Well then. Hopefully there's something useful out of this mess...

Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.
Also victim blaming. Suddenly it's not you who is at fault for improper behaviour, but the other person who "couldn't take it".

I did not at all mean this, but it's understandable that you interpret it like that. I meant that, if I was wrong (which I was. And am.), it would be (and it is) my fault. So, I'm sorry Didds. Sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry. Not sure what I can do to make up for it...

So...EVERYONE had problems parsing my post. Well that's a pretty big problem...especially if everyone thinks I would claim this early. Well, don't worry about it, when I claim, I bold it, so mistakes don't happen.

I didn't like Didds' incredibly direct question with no right answer. I think she's much wordier than that and it felt like a trap, uncharacteristic of Didds' play (for me at least). But then this happened:

Still, if LaLight ever flips as scum double voter, nothing in the world will stop me from immediately voting you.

What is this? Why would you say this? Where's the logic behind it? You think I slipped? This is such an awkward post, it makes no sense!


Correct! Thank you for taking your time with that post, it seems to be that you'll have to do that with a lot of my posts, given that this one's not exacty simple.


And I like faust's vote, so shameless sheep:

Vote: Jimmmmm

Also just want to get on this wagon again.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #458 on: February 28, 2019, 05:34:19 am »

I have no idea what's going on. I'll try to catch up today.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #459 on: February 28, 2019, 06:00:51 am »

So this is all I can find on the "MiX Vs WCD" bit:

1) MiX Quote: "That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the powe

2)
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

What did I miss?

What do you mean by this?

Are you the double voter MiX?


3)
Dude, you can take off of the bossy boots right now. You don't get to order me, or anyone else, around. It's scummy AF in the game and in life, and I am not having it.

You said "That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!"

Sure seems like you are saying you have two votes, I am not the only one confused, and you're FoS is just as good as a vote discussion is nonsensical to me. And no one says anyone has to obey UoS list of rules to be followed about roles, so I'm not sure that you are although you are quoting it here like its part of the setup.

I didn't make a mistake. I read more carefully than you do (see the Space gender discussion that you either didn't read or disregarded). Looks to me like you are saying you have two votes, so I am just making sure. Doubling down on me for pointing it out because the question doesn't follow the rules you believe have been established while trying to discipline me in the process...not cool.


4)
Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_

MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?

I am a firm believer that I should be aggressive here and that Didds can take it. If I am wrong, I apologize. When I pushed my boundaries with you, the resulting arguments would be NAI. Here I believe they are not.

Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...

@WCD, please explain why you wanted me to answer that question. In as great detail as possible. I'm trying to calm down...I still think that was a scumslip. And I still want an answer...please don't take this personally...
Ah, and also answer the points I made in the other post, of course.

I get to order around my scumreads. Especially when they slip this hard...it's not at all scummy to do so, because "scummy in life" does not exist.

I withdraw this statement, I believe this was over the line.


I hope everyone can see where I'm coming from with this...


Then a final post from MiX like 10 posts ago going over summarizing and whatever.


All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #460 on: February 28, 2019, 06:03:53 am »

Faust/E - literally no reason for my initial Chicken vote. 18 player game, wanted to see if something could get going. But I like where it lays now.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #461 on: February 28, 2019, 06:08:41 am »

WCD - do you prefer "she"?

If so I am sorry. We have played a lot of games together and I have just never caught onto that.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #462 on: February 28, 2019, 06:23:02 am »

Going back to the Ferengi thing; I guess my odd question got us some info after all.  Not very useful, maybe, but something.

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan.  That said, I know neither of them at all (as compared to, say, Jimmmm or faust), so who knows.  Of course, I run on the coarser side of things.

Lots of pages, not a lot of content coming from those pages, otherwise. 

Blatant role speculation incoming...obligatory "could be my own role I'm acting like I don't know" WIFOM statement...

Do we think the Double Voter can vote separately?  Or is one bolded vote counted twice on the vote count?

It's elementary to figure out; just have everyone vote.  The fact that some haven't voted (SA, is your script up and running) feels like an effort to hide the "unhide-able" double vote, which is scummy.  I'm looking at Awaclus, I think, who hasn't voted, and also shraeye, maybe?  Anyone else?

For now, vote: awaclus for not being very Awaclusian and until he votes.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #463 on: February 28, 2019, 06:23:41 am »

Vote: ashersky

Is this better?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #464 on: February 28, 2019, 06:25:31 am »

Vote: ashersky

Is this better?

Yes!  Thank you.

Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #465 on: February 28, 2019, 06:27:27 am »

Do we think the Double Voter can vote separately?  Or is one bolded vote counted twice on the vote count?

It's elementary to figure out; just have everyone vote.
It's even more elementary to figure out: Just ask joth.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #466 on: February 28, 2019, 06:29:05 am »

Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.
Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #467 on: February 28, 2019, 06:33:45 am »

And ash, please respond to this:

Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

You voted for Chickenwarlord. Now you are not. How has this helped town?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #468 on: February 28, 2019, 06:58:13 am »

WCD - do you prefer "she"?

If so I am sorry. We have played a lot of games together and I have just never caught onto that.

Really? That’s funny, you’ve never messed it up! She or they is cool by me. As long as it isn’t he, I don’t really care.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #469 on: February 28, 2019, 07:50:50 am »

Thanks for the support, y’all. I appreciate it. It was Survivor and Petite Syrah. Wednesday nights are awesome.

Mix, in regard to your last question....I don’t think of set up talk as revealing, really. Especially when the set up is complicated. As a relatively new player, it’s generally helpful to me, especially since I was a VT my first few games and didn’t know much about how roles worked or interacted. (Proof of this is in the Imperiall Radch game when I literally didn’t understand what I did until someone else explained it to me.) I understand why it can be scummy, but it’s not to me. I have only been in one game where we caught scum D1, and it was because of the way he was justifying his votes. In the game where I played the best, it was voting patterns that outed scum for me. So, that tends to be where I look most closely.

As to the double voter and my direct question. I was having trouble following you. My thoughts were, is he saying he has two votes? That LL has two votes? That the FoS is a vote (I’ve never seen that terminology before and had to look it up)? So I asked you if you were saying you were a double voter. I wasn’t PR hunting, just trying to follow. If it was a breadcrumb, it was like a whole slice and warranted a follow up. The double voter can’t be concealed so I wasn’t thinking it was super secret info, especially since you seems to be saying you had two votes. If that isn’t what you were saying, that seems easy enough for you to answer. Obviously, I wasn’t the only one not following you on this.

In the future, if you think I’m scum, please just vote for me. I’m not going to respond to personal attacks, direct orders, or aggression in any way that will help you or anyone else. My weak spot in the game is not how I respond to aggression. My job surrounds me with a whole host of young-adult aggro dudes who think they know more about everything than anyone, so dealing with them is work. I don’t choose to do it for fun.

Finally, in response to planned/plant folks....nope. The only thing that took real planning was crafting the response where I checked out for the evening because I was angry and kept resorting to juvenile name-calling and had to revise more than usual to avoid melting anyone’s face. You can count on me not to deliberately try to do anything that helps characterize me as more emotional than I already am.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #470 on: February 28, 2019, 08:06:05 am »

Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.
Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.

Or we can go there.  How often is there a "if they were scum they'd be posting more" argument made?  "IRL stuff" is just as much the human element of the game as it is being busy or available or online.  I'm not saying Awaclus lied about being busy working or drumming or whatever.  He just said "man I'm behind" and then was responding to the newest post in the game.  It's about the discrepancy between "being behind" and being able to respond quickly to the newest post, which tells me Awaclus had read up to that point already, possibly meaning his previous post was an exaggeration to cover for not posting too much.  Or maybe more time passed than I thought and he caught up, or maybe he reads super fast, I don't know.  But Awaclus could have answered that himself.

And ash, please respond to this:

Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

You voted for Chickenwarlord. Now you are not. How has this helped town?

It achieved a small wagon and some discussion on the merits of voting for CW.  CW also came back and posted some.  And it got votes on the record from players that may be useful in the late game when looking at interactions.

At the very worst, it was neutral, and most definitely it was better than at least half of the rest of the "contributions" to the game so far by other players.

How have any of your posts helped town?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #471 on: February 28, 2019, 08:10:55 am »

Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.
Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.

Or we can go there.  How often is there a "if they were scum they'd be posting more" argument made?  "IRL stuff" is just as much the human element of the game as it is being busy or available or online.  I'm not saying Awaclus lied about being busy working or drumming or whatever.  He just said "man I'm behind" and then was responding to the newest post in the game.  It's about the discrepancy between "being behind" and being able to respond quickly to the newest post, which tells me Awaclus had read up to that point already, possibly meaning his previous post was an exaggeration to cover for not posting too much.  Or maybe more time passed than I thought and he caught up, or maybe he reads super fast, I don't know.  But Awaclus could have answered that himself.

And ash, please respond to this:

Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

You voted for Chickenwarlord. Now you are not. How has this helped town?

It achieved a small wagon and some discussion on the merits of voting for CW.  CW also came back and posted some.  And it got votes on the record from players that may be useful in the late game when looking at interactions.

At the very worst, it was neutral, and most definitely it was better than at least half of the rest of the "contributions" to the game so far by other players.

How have any of your posts helped town?

I'm reading all the new posts but there's stuff in between that I have only skimmed over.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #472 on: February 28, 2019, 08:13:43 am »

I'm reading all the new posts but there's stuff in between that I have only skimmed over.

Credible.

Any thoughts on any specific players?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #473 on: February 28, 2019, 08:29:14 am »

I'm reading all the new posts but there's stuff in between that I have only skimmed over.

Credible.

Any thoughts on any specific players?

Vote: e
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #474 on: February 28, 2019, 09:25:21 am »

I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faust’s Jimm vote
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)
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