Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 123  All

Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 377828 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #400 on: February 27, 2019, 08:41:12 am »

I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are. That could be the alignment not in the game, if that's the only one that fits the bill. But all a town Ferengi would know is one alignment that no one in the QT has. I saw that Ash had realized this, but I also wanted to point out that if Ash's original assumption was true, i.e. that the Ferengi knew which alignment wasn't in the gaqme, it would still be bad for them to say because that knowledge helps scum more than it helps town.


After I made that post, it occurred to me that if at least one Ferengi was scum, they would already know which alignment wasn't in the game, since they have an additional piece of information- their own alignment. Which would be an argument in favor of sharing that information with town. But its all moot since a town Ferengi wouldn't have that info in the first place.

I think Glooble ended up thinking he was wrong somewhere, but he’s kind of right. If scum is in the neighborhood and is told there is no town in the hood, they know the exact setup alignment wise.
Wait that can happen? ... apparently yes. That would be hilarious but also a bit broken. I assume joth would reroll it.

Also it is not true. If there are no town in there, only the faction that has only one player in there would know which multiball it is.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

MiX

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #401 on: February 27, 2019, 08:45:35 am »

Wrong: because there's 4 Ferengi: UB also included in the no-town.

I was thinking about this very scenario pregame, and it's definitely possible, don't see why not...actually, Could the above be considered balanced? That is, Ferengi know there's no town?
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #402 on: February 27, 2019, 09:01:39 am »

I guess my vote on 2.7 was more useful. Vote: 2.7
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #403 on: February 27, 2019, 09:36:02 am »

Wrong: because there's 4 Ferengi: UB also included in the no-town.
Still 2 scum from team 1 could be Ferengi and the third a UB, and they would not know whether the third Ferengi was SK or not.

... I had to.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #404 on: February 27, 2019, 09:37:32 am »

I guess my vote on 2.7 was more useful. Vote: 2.7
I guess my vote is still useful!
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #405 on: February 27, 2019, 09:41:40 am »

You guys are hilarious. The alignment the Ferengi are informed about cannot be Station. If the setup rolled such that all scum teams were represented in the Ferengi + UB, it would call for a reroll. they would just be told the non-existent scum team.

I mean, that would make for a very funny game, but it would either make the Neighborhood useless or basically make the scum teams into one mega-scum team.

Edit: I messed this up a bit.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 10:17:12 am by jotheonah »
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

WestCoastDidds

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Shuffle iT Username: WestCoastDidds
  • Didds, ya'll
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #406 on: February 27, 2019, 09:51:24 am »

One mega-scumteam would be very bad indeed.
And Ferengi that powerful would have created a very different DS9.
Logged
classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #407 on: February 27, 2019, 09:57:25 am »

You guys are hilarious. The alignment the Ferengi are informed about cannot be Station. If the setup rolled such that all scum teams were represented in the Ferengi + UB, it would call for a reroll.
That's ... surprising. I mean 2 scumteams in there would mean that they still could have been informed about the third (non-existing) scumteam, and thus would not know each other's alignment. But this statement pretty definitely says that there is one town in Ferengi + UB. Which probably does not help us much, but still.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 774
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #408 on: February 27, 2019, 09:58:41 am »

vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.

This is my thought as well as I am rereading

vote: 2.71828.....

Why? I don't think I've seen cases against e and he seems pretty town to me. Also, sheeping a meh, if not bad, vote is just...lazy, as (I think) Didds put it. Scumpoints!

I also have to say that I've been reading the QTs of M121, and I saw this in the mason one...

LaLight: "...By the way MiX when you read this, sorry!"

That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

@faust, what makes you think Swan didn't get a scumread from chicken?

idk, I am pretty good at gut reads and e has a lot of content but none of it stroke me as townie.
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #409 on: February 27, 2019, 10:03:54 am »

idk, I am pretty good at gut reads and e has a lot of content but none of it stroke me as townie.
I never knew scums strokes your gut differently than town does!
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

WestCoastDidds

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Shuffle iT Username: WestCoastDidds
  • Didds, ya'll
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #410 on: February 27, 2019, 10:10:05 am »

idk, I am pretty good at gut reads and e has a lot of content but none of it stroke me as townie.
I never knew scums strokes your gut differently than town does!

Towns are much guttier and scum is much stokier
Logged
classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #411 on: February 27, 2019, 10:15:40 am »

Wait a minute, I don't know what I was thinking before. There is always a scum faction not in the game. If every scum faction is represented in the Ferengi, they are told the faction not in the game. Never town. But also, not necessarily grounds for a re-roll. Apologies for getting that wrong before.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

MiX

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #412 on: February 27, 2019, 10:22:42 am »

So you pick who the Ferengi/UB are before randomizing what the Ferengi know? Let's assume there's 2/2 scum in the ferengi/UB: if you were to roll for Ferengi to know there's no Station-aligned, would you reroll all roles, or just the info (thus eventually making said info be "there's no changeling")?

I believe this may prove useful for probabilities.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #413 on: February 27, 2019, 10:24:24 am »

Wait a minute, I don't know what I was thinking before. There is always a scum faction not in the game. If every scum faction is represented in the Ferengi, they are told the faction not in the game. Never town. But also, not necessarily grounds for a re-roll. Apologies for getting that wrong before.
Well thanks I guess, but we still know that this did not happen as otherwise you would not have messed it up.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

raerae

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Shuffle iT Username: raerae
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #414 on: February 27, 2019, 11:01:48 am »

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #415 on: February 27, 2019, 11:06:25 am »

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

raerae

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Shuffle iT Username: raerae
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #416 on: February 27, 2019, 11:14:12 am »

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.

I feel like you're being difficult here on purpose. You know his posting style is divisive and that's what I was getting at. Regardless, I'm standing by not lynching him D1 barring any obvious slips.
Logged

MiX

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #417 on: February 27, 2019, 11:21:07 am »

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.

I feel like you're being difficult here on purpose. You know his posting style is divisive and that's what I was getting at. Regardless, I'm standing by not lynching him D1 barring any obvious slips.

You did say "hard to read" was not obviously being of one alignment. That's just asking to get answered like faust did. And what do you mean divisive, can you point out examples? I'm really trying not to do the same thing as the first game and I wanted to know what I did wrong then/now.
Logged

raerae

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Shuffle iT Username: raerae
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #418 on: February 27, 2019, 11:51:31 am »

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.

I feel like you're being difficult here on purpose. You know his posting style is divisive and that's what I was getting at. Regardless, I'm standing by not lynching him D1 barring any obvious slips.

You did say "hard to read" was not obviously being of one alignment. That's just asking to get answered like faust did. And what do you mean divisive, can you point out examples? I'm really trying not to do the same thing as the first game and I wanted to know what I did wrong then/now.

It isn't one particular thing I can quote, it's your whole style, it's just different. You're like that person who cornered me at a math party to talk about prime numbers once, it was just A LOT and that doesn't make it bad but just something I want expecting and didn't know how to handle.  I don't think you should change your style unless you want to and I'm not going to coach you about how you should play because we all have our own way. You do you.
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #419 on: February 27, 2019, 01:09:11 pm »

So you pick who the Ferengi/UB are before randomizing what the Ferengi know? Let's assume there's 2/2 scum in the ferengi/UB: if you were to roll for Ferengi to know there's no Station-aligned, would you reroll all roles, or just the info (thus eventually making said info be "there's no changeling")?

I believe this may prove useful for probabilities.

Figuring out what to tell the Ferengi is the last step of the setup roll. I identify the options and then, if there's more than one, pick one at random. The possible options are Mirror Universe, Maquis, and Changeling (not Station).

Wait a minute, I don't know what I was thinking before. There is always a scum faction not in the game. If every scum faction is represented in the Ferengi, they are told the faction not in the game. Never town. But also, not necessarily grounds for a re-roll. Apologies for getting that wrong before.
Well thanks I guess, but we still know that this did not happen as otherwise you would not have messed it up.

Given the magnitude of my brain fart there (literally forgetting the basic tenet of my own setup, that only two of the possible three factions exist) I wouldn't draw any conclusions. Don't underestimate my capacity to screw up.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

SpaceAnemone

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
  • Shuffle iT Username: SpaceAnemone
  • Correct Horse Battery Staple
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #420 on: February 27, 2019, 02:21:02 pm »

Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
Other people have posted.

He'd made 2 in-game posts by then! Isn't that equivalent to 200 000 posts for determining his alignment? :-)
1. Please stop misrepresenting what I say.
2. If they got an alignment read from Chickenwarlord's posts, then that is totally fine and they can say so, it's a valid answer.

I feel like I wasn't particularly misrepresenting you, unless I misunderstand something. When you made that comment to me, I'd expressed surprise that someone had any read on Ash from two posts, and you suggested that it's possible to read alignment from two posts if it's possible for 200K posts. Then when discussing Chickenwarlord, you equated his two posts to an implied zero posts (because "other people have posted"). What did I miss?

FWIW, I think unless there's something with the information content of an undisputable scumslip, then any post can only give partial indication of an alignment, and you need an accumulation of posts before anyone's alignment swings significantly away from the default assumption. (I'm feeling pleased with myself for not saying "prior" after that whole discussion with Haddock in your Radch mafia game).
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

UmbrageOfSnow

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • Shuffle iT Username: Umbrageofsnow
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #421 on: February 27, 2019, 03:07:40 pm »

I wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons. Lynching Dukat means not lynching a useful PR. It also means removing a liability. Of course the UB changes the first part, and makes it so that it largely does not matter whom we lynch from a PR perspective.

Much as I like D1s, I also like utilizing setup info to my advantage, and in an open setup if there is a good plan it outweighs reads for me. Especially in multiball where scum can legitimately scumhunt and thus is even harder to catch.

And that's better (disregarding the UB and PR usefulness) than lynching Dukat the day before LYLO why?

Also, are you giving Uncleeurope less towncred for his claim because you suggested it?
Logged

shraeye

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 690
  • Shuffle iT Username: shraeye
  • More Graph Theory please
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #422 on: February 27, 2019, 03:27:09 pm »

vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.

This is my thought as well as I am rereading

vote: 2.71828.....
I don't get it; this is the...third?...vote on e which feels like it's just sheeping what I still think is the scummiest reasoning I've seen so far.  Sure, metas, I get it. But "feels genuine" is an easy box to pretend somebody no longer is sitting in, since it's all subjective.


Like, "being scummy" isn't a meta.  Being sarcastic is.
Why wouldn’t we lynch players who are hard to sort? Granted I’ve played one game with Awaclus, but in that one game 1. He was scum, 2. I kept saying he was scum, 3. People kept saying “nah, that’s just Awaclus being Awaclus har har.”
There is merit to seeing if somebody's actions are out of character.  Like if raerae is sarcastic, and people say "because she's so sarcastic she must be scum"...then they're wrong.  That's not giving raerae cover to be scummy, it's just explaining how she is so we can interpret her other actions around it.
Logged

shraeye

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 690
  • Shuffle iT Username: shraeye
  • More Graph Theory please
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #423 on: February 27, 2019, 03:27:52 pm »

That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

What did I miss?
Logged

shraeye

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 690
  • Shuffle iT Username: shraeye
  • More Graph Theory please
    • View Profile
Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #424 on: February 27, 2019, 03:28:16 pm »

Okay, since we're done playing my little game here, I may as well give my reasoning:

Faust is one of the players who gets the utility of Day 1. And his Dukat claiming talk is fine, but the desire to lynch UE didn't read like a reaction test to me, for a minute before he realized it was insanely anti-town for the UB to inherit Dukat's power if the UB is town, he wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons.

And yeah, Dukat isn't likely to be the NK but he's sortable by reads later on. If we are possibly going into LYLO in the next day later in the game and don't decide we collectively trust him, it makes sense to lynch Unceeurope then, but doing it in the first couple real life days of Day 1 eliminates a lot of the utility Faust knows there can be in Day 1. And I think Town!faust realizes that.
I think I pulled a hamstring trying to follow that stretch.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 123  All
 

Page created in 0.092 seconds with 20 queries.