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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 377314 times)

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ashersky

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #325 on: February 26, 2019, 09:52:26 am »

vote: chickenwarlord

Random based on a look at the player list and settled on the when was the last time that player posted feeling I got.

Or is that a player no one calls by their name?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #326 on: February 26, 2019, 09:54:36 am »

I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #327 on: February 26, 2019, 09:55:23 am »

I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.

And I just reread that and it says not in their QT/UB, not game.  So nevermind.  No Ferengi, including maybe me, should share information now.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #328 on: February 26, 2019, 09:56:41 am »

joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying.  That includes the Doctor, too, right?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #329 on: February 26, 2019, 10:17:15 am »

joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying.  That includes the Doctor, too, right?

The bomb kills players who target with NKs, so not Bashir.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #330 on: February 26, 2019, 10:44:42 am »

I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?

I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #331 on: February 26, 2019, 10:54:26 am »

I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?

I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.


If we were in fact able to get that information (which we can't) it would honestly help scum more than town at this point. If scum the scum team knows that the only other scum is a bulletproof sk, for example, they're going to focus on killing town PRs instead of targeting their own scum reads.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #332 on: February 26, 2019, 10:58:30 am »

Although if there is at least one scum among the Ferengi, then that scum team already know the exact composition. But they could all be town.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #333 on: February 26, 2019, 11:02:30 am »

vote: jimmmmm

or however many ms.

I'm feeling better about shraeye, I don't like the faust or e wagons, and I'd rather not lynch a brand new player for lurking (especially one I recruited.) Jimmm hasn't done anything but drop some reads which to me didn't look like they had much thought behind them.

But, chicken, you gotta get in here and contribute! To everyone here but me you are a completely unknown element. At least answer the questions directed at you.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #334 on: February 26, 2019, 11:08:13 am »

joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying.  That includes the Doctor, too, right?

I don't understand the question. Anyone who targets Martok with a nightkill gets killed, whether or not that nightkill happens. Unless they get roleblocked. People that target him with something else are fine.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #335 on: February 26, 2019, 11:30:37 am »


Hey DatSwan!

If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?

wait I want follow up now that I have thought about it.

Same question back at you.

Yeah, I picked a set of players that I thought would be harder/more-informative to assess.  You're right that choosing 5 players is likely to include scum, but I tried to pick some players that hadn't left a big impression on me.  So I guess a hidden question was "is that more scummy or more towny?"  That's not a question with a straightforward answer either. 

For example, Umbrage has said a lot of words, but hasn't contributed much to interactions/reads so I think that is scummier.  mcmcs has said many fewer words, but when I look at them they are really pushing interactions and reads; so townier

I literally don't recall Awaclus posting anything.  So I'm feeling more like that's someone who was busy when the game got underfoot like you were.  But you showed up and immediately contributed, unlike them.  Jimmm has also contributed minimally, but more all-around instead of minimal-content but most of it is joking/unrelated .  So despite having similar levels, I'm reading Jimmm as townier than Awaclus.

Glooble has said a few things that I've had kneejerk reactions to, and things I disagree with, but has done some rereading/summarizing/opining.  I'm beginning to feel like I have kneejerk reactions to town more than scum (see M121).  That's an oversimplification, but it's enough for me to push Glooble towards the towny side of null.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #336 on: February 26, 2019, 11:43:25 am »

I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?

I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.


If we were in fact able to get that information (which we can't) it would honestly help scum more than town at this point. If scum the scum team knows that the only other scum is a bulletproof sk, for example, they're going to focus on killing town PRs instead of targeting their own scum reads.
This is true.  Ash should know that.  Welcome to the top of my suspicion list.


Glooble, you're going to have to walk me through your thought process.
If we were in fact able to get that information (which we can't)
This looks like you realize, like ash did, that the info is "not in QT" instead of "not in game".
Although if there is at least one scum among the Ferengi, then that scum team already know the exact composition.
But this looks like you still think, like ash originally did, that they know which faction isn't in the game.

And they were posted in that order, back-to-back.  It looks like an un-realization (instead of ash's realization)
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #337 on: February 26, 2019, 11:52:19 am »

I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are. That could be the alignment not in the game, if that's the only one that fits the bill. But all a town Ferengi would know is one alignment that no one in the QT has. I saw that Ash had realized this, but I also wanted to point out that if Ash's original assumption was true, i.e. that the Ferengi knew which alignment wasn't in the gaqme, it would still be bad for them to say because that knowledge helps scum more than it helps town.


After I made that post, it occurred to me that if at least one Ferengi was scum, they would already know which alignment wasn't in the game, since they have an additional piece of information- their own alignment. Which would be an argument in favor of sharing that information with town. But its all moot since a town Ferengi wouldn't have that info in the first place.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #338 on: February 26, 2019, 11:53:04 am »

I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are.


That's meant to say "none" not "one"
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #339 on: February 26, 2019, 11:59:38 am »

Oh wait I’m dumb. I see what you’re saying now.

I don’t know what I was thinking. Ignore the above.

No, a theoretical scum Ferengi doesn’t actually no any more than a non-scum Ferengi until someone flips the opposite alignment.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #340 on: February 26, 2019, 12:00:15 pm »

*know, not no.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #341 on: February 26, 2019, 12:02:07 pm »

Glooble's explanation is consistent with what I would expect of "ash is wrong: even if this was true, he forgot about one thing. Oh, but that's not true, right. But even if it was, there's another thing that's wrong, so, yeah".

@Glooble, do you like setup talk and/or do you think you're good at it? Do you think you need to work harder D1 because of last game?

PPE 2: Ok now I'm actually confused...let's stop talking about hypotheticals that aren't true.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #342 on: February 26, 2019, 12:05:48 pm »

Glooble's explanation is consistent with what I would expect of "ash is wrong: even if this was true, he forgot about one thing. Oh, but that's not true, right. But even if it was, there's another thing that's wrong, so, yeah".

@Glooble, do you like setup talk and/or do you think you're good at it? Do you think you need to work harder D1 because of last game?

PPE 2: Ok now I'm actually confused...let's stop talking about hypotheticals that aren't true.


Setup talk can be helpful. I've never understood why people think its scummy.


By last game do you mean Deep Space Nine Mafia 1 five years ago or Imperial Radch Mafia? Because I don't think I did anything wrong in Imperial Radch mafia, except maybe not hammering UoS after his bogus doctor claim.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #343 on: February 26, 2019, 12:29:27 pm »

Vote Count 1.3

Far above Odo and Quark's bickering, Worf sits at another table opposite Kasidy Yates. He sips his prune juice with brooding severity.

"Thank you for joining me, Ms. Yates," he intones in his Klingon baritone. "There is an ... awkwardness... to this interview, given your relationship with the Captain. But he has charged me to find the Maquis spies, and given your former association with them, you were the logical person to start with."

"Of course, Worf," Kasidy says. "But I don't think I can help you much. I haven't had any contact with Maquis for a long time."

"I see. And have you encountered any ... former associates around the station?"

"I can't say that I have. If I hear anything I'll let you know."

"Thank you."

Kasidy decides to break the tense silence that follows.

"In the meantime, Ben, Jake and I are planning to play some baseball in the holosuite this weekend. We could use a good, strong pitcher like you. Care to join in?"

"Perhaps another time," the Klingon says. "I would rather not take time for recreation while this threat to the station remains."

"I'm sorry to hear that," Jadzia says, bounding up the spiral staircase to Quark's second level.

"I was hoping we could spar a little," she says flirtatiously. "Blow off some steam. But I guess I'll just have to join Quark's tongo game instead."

Jadzia playfully takes a swig of Worf's prune juice and skips back down the stairs, daring her boyfriend to follow.


faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
UmbrageOfSnow (1): UncleEurope
Robz888 (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): Glooble

Not voting (6): LaLight, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Awaclus, chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players. Day 1 ends at 8 a.m. forum time on Saturday, March 2.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 12:30:32 pm by jotheonah »
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #344 on: February 26, 2019, 03:59:49 pm »

Okay...I am finally catching up for real. I just read where we are at from the start. (Thanks, Joth, for the cool set up and all of the clarifications! You are doing a great job!) I had to go read about bus drivers and godfathers and millers and multiball... but now I think I understand where we are at. Here's what I am thinking about who we have playing...

Eddie is Gul, the hated godfather. Poor Eddie. We don't really hate you...you're the Uncle of Europe! Loved by all! But good to know. I don't think that claiming was a bad move.

MiX confuses me frequently. This is not all that interesting necessarily, but I do find it happening over and over again so I am going to say something now in case it starts happening when it matters. I find him really hard to follow. I don't think I think the same way he does about things, and it seems different than a wordsy person v. mathsy person distinction. I wonder if the experience of playing really fast games is significant? I am also troubled by the fact that he pays close attention to some posts and then glosses others. Why the selective attention paying? But he's new and I'd rather be friendlier than not at the outset, but still seems not quite right.

Shraeye and UoS are both writing big posts with lots of stuff, but not so much on the conclusions.  That has a quasi-helpfulness vibe without actually being helpful, especially when the posts are bossy or commanding. Shraeye makes some good points about why no lynch should be viable, but I am still on the side of lynching. UoS is helping fill in blanks about how some of the roles work and interact, which is likely useful.

I appreciate Glooble trying to suss out dimensions of the set-up that are helpful to everyone. (UoS is in this camp sometimes, too) I don't find anything scummy about him doing this. He definitely did nothing wrong in the Imperial Radch game.

Mcmc...hi! I'm so sorry that Asher killed you so early into the last game.  I was hoping I'd get to play with not-scum you for the first time ever!

DatSwan (hi! Sorry I quoted my role and got our QT cut short last game! Turns out quoting is a big deal! Who knew?!) always makes a lot of sense to me, even when he wanders about. I'm prone to wandering myself, so I usually follow him pretty well. It will take a lot for me to find him scummy for that kind of posting.

I don't see why UoS thinks faust is scummy. Faust doesn't seem scummy...just cranky. As anyone is likely to be when Something Is Wrong on the Internet.

E and Space are as I expected. I don't know them quite well enough to make judgements just yet but they are legit vets that play well and help town (when they are town) so I'm interested in seeing what they find interesting. Ashersky confuses me a bit, sometimes, but everything thus far has been straightforward. I am putting them all into a "not scummy" basket.

Then I have a "who?" basket for folks who are scarce. Robz has contributed little. Chicken even less. Awaclus stays around enough to keep up, but adds little.  Raerae is unknown to me, but I heartily appreciate her attitude and I like it when she gives Shraeye the business.  I also find it endearing that when I read the original DS9 game they were dating!  And now there is a kid! Love it! Jimmmmmm is unknown to me, too. And I don't have any real sense of him.

LaLight...how was the moving? I hope that you are not living among boxes for too long. Right now, due to the low level of interaction which is not very lalight-y at all, he's my most likely to be scum guess. So, I guess I'll vote: LaLight
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #345 on: February 26, 2019, 04:05:24 pm »

See, that one I don't buy. If Eddie was scum and I his partner, and we decided to claim Gul Dukat, why on earth would I want to steal his thunder by proposing the plan before he ever had a chance to post?

What thunder would you be stealing exactly? There's no universe in which anyone fakeclaims Dukat, the only question is alignment, not role.

Also, I had somehow missed that the serial killer, if we have one, would be full BP rather than 1-shot, which does indeed change things although I'm not entirely sure how. Surviving an NK is a sort of soft Changeling cop for scum. Either way it doesn't change how I would use Bus Driver, successfully targeting one of the 2 scum making an NK turns Bus Driver into a vig shot, and there are two chances to guess right, with the other top guess being vigged.

Also, I think of this whenever I say busvig.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #346 on: February 26, 2019, 04:13:40 pm »


What’s not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I don’t trust my own day one reads and I can’t trust anyone else’s because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but it’s pretty close.

STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.

If there is a less than random chance of lynching scum on D1 (there is), it's because scum interact in a way to ensure town gets lynched. This is like the whole point of mafia.

If we don't have lunch, we go to bed hungry we wake up the next day with the same lack of information we'd have had on D1, minus whatever PRs learned, but we know the setup and the PRs aren't likely to solve the game on N1, and any useful results will out them.

And by the way, no one has rock solid reads or evidence on Day 2 or Day 3 either, and they are worse if there wasn't a Day 1 lynch. Who here has never been on a mislynch wagon as town? Hint: maybe one of the newbies, but that's it.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #347 on: February 26, 2019, 04:16:30 pm »

@Jimmmmm, would you consider yourself a good D1 player? What's your scum meta?

Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm will be completely useless Day 1. This is something I'm trying to fight against, because so many people are willfully useless Day 1, but Jimmmmm isn't going to be the one I convince I think. He's good in LYLO though (and he'll probably make it to LYLO if he's town because he won't be a threat to scum before then.)
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #348 on: February 26, 2019, 04:22:32 pm »

While I'm at it...how come no-one mentioned ash!plans? Severely dissapointed.

I've been waiting for someone to jump on Ash for not having a plan, or Ash to roll out some half-baked plan to satisfy the masses.

The fact that he hasn't gives me a townread on Ash here, I think he caves to his own meta as scum. The fact that you bring it up... well it cancels out the townpoints I was giving you for actually seeming to look at Faust when I mentioned it.

...
Sigh. Then I read the next page and see Ash trying to find things to make up plans about right after you post this. I guess we can get out of this that Ash and MiX at least aren't on the same scumteam...
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #349 on: February 26, 2019, 04:23:58 pm »

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)
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