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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 377298 times)

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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #225 on: February 24, 2019, 07:03:48 pm »

I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #226 on: February 24, 2019, 07:07:01 pm »

Does the Universal Backup inherit access to the Ferengi neighborhood if a Ferengi is the first to die?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #227 on: February 24, 2019, 07:08:32 pm »

I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.

I refuse to play games I don’t know the rules to.

I also don’t know if I agree with the top two scumreads thing.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #228 on: February 24, 2019, 07:09:09 pm »

Wow. Okay that's a lot of info. UoS won't die today.

Sadly I'll need to go to bed now, so I'll just say this: Sisko should be treated as a cop and act like a cop. Does that make sense? Because it does to me.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #229 on: February 24, 2019, 07:09:19 pm »

What's the downside?

Worried you won't have any scumreads?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #230 on: February 24, 2019, 07:12:44 pm »

What's the downside?

Worried you won't have any scumreads?

That argument makes no sense, everyone will have scum reads, even scum. Nah, it’s for something else.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #231 on: February 24, 2019, 07:17:46 pm »

I mean, you've already claimed so you're the safest person to talk about this with.

Everyone is going to have scumreads anyway, and assuming we aren't lying about scumreads (and town shouldn't be) it's really just about the optimal usage of the role anyway, minus whatever you lose based on the flip of the day's lynch, but that can be worked in as a conditional anyway.

i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

If Garak flips scum, obviously we don't trust that he stuck to this plan and so we have a whole bunch more WIFOM, but then we could never have done anything about that anyway.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #232 on: February 24, 2019, 07:20:07 pm »

No. +0, so forum+5. I hope you can determine where I am with this information...

Your profile info already says Portugal, so I'll go with that!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #233 on: February 24, 2019, 07:32:57 pm »

I mean, you've already claimed so you're the safest person to talk about this with.

Everyone is going to have scumreads anyway, and assuming we aren't lying about scumreads (and town shouldn't be) it's really just about the optimal usage of the role anyway, minus whatever you lose based on the flip of the day's lynch, but that can be worked in as a conditional anyway.

i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

If Garak flips scum, obviously we don't trust that he stuck to this plan and so we have a whole bunch more WIFOM, but then we could never have done anything about that anyway.

You're posting interesting ideas, but I'm not sure I agree 100%. The more you start allowing your statements to be conditioned on flips, the more info town has to give about the precise truthful state of their suspicion on everyone. While I don't see any big downside to picking two top scumreads, if you go further than that, you risk asking town to give scum too much information.

Also, the more complicated a scheme like this gets, the more likely you are to find uncooperative players.. and then there are arguments when people refuse to cooperate with what seem like a foolproof schemes to those who have a better grip on what's being asked. Then those people start looking scummy, when in fact they're possibly just overconfident in their own way of doing things.. I feel like I've been down that path a bunch of times before when trying to get people to agree with schemes that were optimised to get the most out of a claims process or something.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #234 on: February 24, 2019, 07:38:55 pm »

That 2nd point is something I've struggled with all my life, going back to like 4th grade group projects.

If you can't explain a good idea in 2 sentences some people stop paying attention and decide not to cooperate. Drives me crazy.

But yeah, I think the 2 is fine really even if it's not conditional. But I wasn't really suggesting we should all do the conditional stuff every day anyway, I was more pointing out that it could be used when it comes up.

And Cops absolutely need not investigate the last person they said was their top scumread, but at some point over a day they are sure to have had a scumread, which is my whole point.

It's a claiming method that folds into normal play.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #235 on: February 24, 2019, 07:41:24 pm »

UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #236 on: February 24, 2019, 07:45:57 pm »

I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.

Okay I just reread everything faust has said this game and I can't see where you are coming from. I see the town logic in pushing Gul Dukat to claim. I even see the town logic in wanting to lynch him day one, forgetting about the UB, being reminded of the UB, then unvoting. I don't agree with it all, but none of it jumps out as scummy.

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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #237 on: February 24, 2019, 07:47:47 pm »

UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?

Slight town in one light, slight scum in another.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #238 on: February 24, 2019, 07:48:58 pm »

UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?

Slight town in one light, slight scum in another.

I probably should mention that the town light is the light I am using.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #239 on: February 24, 2019, 07:55:37 pm »

Thanks for playing my game
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #240 on: February 24, 2019, 09:20:33 pm »

Does the Universal Backup inherit access to the Ferengi neighborhood if a Ferengi is the first to die?

Yes. The setup role is done such that the information the Ferengi have holds true even if the UB joins them.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #241 on: February 24, 2019, 09:49:38 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Probably because I'm here and raerae is here and both of us think nolynch is viable.  I remain unconvinced by math (google the McNamara fallacy) or by people simply saying "We are never doing this. It's the worst." (google 'proof by assertion')

Embrace the possibility of a Day1 no lynch, it's more fun than you think.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #242 on: February 24, 2019, 09:54:57 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Probably because I'm here and raerae is here and both of us think nolynch is viable.  I remain unconvinced by math (google the McNamara fallacy) or by people simply saying "We are never doing this. It's the worst." (google 'proof by assertion')

Embrace the possibility of a Day1 no lynch, it's more fun than you think.

Have you ever successfully convinced anybody of a No Lynch?
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #243 on: February 24, 2019, 09:59:15 pm »

Nope; but I'll never stop trying.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #244 on: February 24, 2019, 10:00:15 pm »

Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Your optimism is almost as endearing as it is infuriating.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #245 on: February 25, 2019, 02:28:07 am »

I tried to hold back and not engage in this, but Someone Is Wrong On The Internet Syndrome is too strong.

  • Cops should aim for their scumreads rather than townreads, innocents are at best half useless and possibly completely useless
  • Cops should only claim results on a guilty or if they are about to be lynched
This is some really obvious stuff that applies to Cops in every game, but ok, we have a newbie I suppose.

The some points that are largely fine. But this:

GARAK
is plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum). The whole "target 2 scummy players" thing gives scum way too much leeway to use it in an anti-town manner. And if everyone understands that this may happen with claimed Cops, then that means think twice about targeting them.

Question that I have not seen answered yet:

How does the SK Strongman interact with Bus Driving?

It would be nice if all role clarifications would be added to the setup post for easy reference.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #246 on: February 25, 2019, 02:34:25 am »

Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Even if No Lynch was a viable option, you shouldn't try to convince people of it, that'll destroy D1 if no one wants a lynch. Since it's not even a good option, it's anti-town to propose that idea. Come back near deadline, then it will be useful.

The UB-Ferengi information is very interesting...

I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

PPE 1: There we go, I say something, faust beats me to it.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #247 on: February 25, 2019, 02:57:07 am »

hey guys, was moving to another apartment and now I finally am here

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #248 on: February 25, 2019, 02:57:16 am »

what's going on
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #249 on: February 25, 2019, 06:02:28 am »

what's going on

I have no idea yet. We could just start our own conversation.
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