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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 33490 times)

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jotheonah

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RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)
« on: January 24, 2019, 06:05:41 pm »

...when I think back to the most entertaining games over the long haul, some of them were a bit wild. I mean, for me personally, some highlights were: Joetheonah's Deep Space Nine (Mafia 19, I think?)...

Welcome to RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux

Mod: jotheonah

Since there are currently no active sign-up threads other than poor stalled out Cryptography mafia, I decided to go ahead and post this. It will not start before RMM51 concludes.

This is an open game for 18 players. It will be a tweaked and rebalanced version of Mafia XIX, which you can read here. Note this was previously run as a closed setup, but this time it will be open (Plz don't break the game). Some more information will be provided in the next post.


Players:
1. Jimmmmm Kira Nerys, 1-shot Vigilante
2. UmbrageOfSnow ADK Miles O'Brien, Mirror Universe Cop
3. LaLight EFHW Worf, Maquis Cop
4. DatSwan Julian Bashir, Even-Night Changeling Cop and 1-shot Doctor
5. mcmcsalot Benjamin Sisko, Roleblocker
6. Glooble Odo, Flavor/Role Cop
7. WestCoastDidds, Dax, 1-shot Deathproof
8. SpaceAnemone, Kai Winn, Double Voter
9. Shraeye, Bariel Antos, Universal Backup
10. MiX, Morn, Loved Serial Killer
11. faust Quark, Neighbor
12. ashersky, Garak, Busdriver/Lightning Rod
13. 2.71828..... General Martok, Bomb
14. Robz888 Jake Sisko, Innocent Child
15. Awaclus Rom, Neighbor
16. Uncleeurope Gul Dukat, Godfather
17. raerae Kasidy Yates, 1-shot Commuter
18. chickenwarlord Nog, Neighbor

Day starts:

Day 1 start
Day 2 start
Day 3 start
Day 4 start
Day 5 start
Day 6 start

Spectators tagged:

mail-mi

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in navy.

The Golden Rule:


Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, donít get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 12 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. Day phases will last 7 days, Night lasts at least 48 hours. Night action deadline is 36 hours after night start.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someoneís fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched, the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the vote is treated as a No Lynch
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes in another format may or may not be counted. This is up to the mod's discretion. Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
10. Any time you are dead (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in shared Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a ďBahĒ post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, navy blue text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they donít get missed.
5. Prods of missing players may be issued after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under without further notice. Players with announced VLA are exempt from this rule the first time it happens.
6. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate Ė donít leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
7. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
8. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 10:58:03 am by jotheonah »
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2019, 06:06:03 pm »

Setup

As mentioned above, this will be a tweaked re-run of my Deep Space Nine mafia game with an open rather than closed setup. I only ran the original game as closed out of an abundance of caution.

The inspiration for this game was that I was trying to think of a way to have heavily-flavored games without having flavor connected in any way to alignment (although there are ultimately some exceptions).

It might turn out to be a hard sell to get 18 people to sign up for multiball. If that's the case, I might rejigger the setup to be played with fewer folks.

You're on Deep Space Nine, just before the start of the Dominion War. At a busy port on the wild frontier of space, it's hard to keep track of all the comings and goings. Despite Odo's best efforts, a string of sabotages on the station have made it clear that someone on board is not what they seem to be.

It's possible that some crewmembers have secretly defected and joined the Maquis, a terrorist group within the Federation. It's also possible that a few crewmembers have been replaced by their mirror universe duplicates - you'd never know the difference if they shaved their goatee. And of course, there's the constant threat of changeling infiltration, though they wouldn't bother with a team. No if there's a changeling aboard he's a solitary serial killer.

Well, this won't do at all. Captain Sisko will take some crewmembers and trusted civilians off their regular duties and assign them to investigate for the various threats.


Non-flavored information:

- The setup will either have two scum teams (Mirror Universe and Maquis) or one scum team and one serial killer (Changeling Infiltrator). You won't know which. Scum teams will consist of three players.
- Either way, there will be three alignment cops: a Maquis cop, a Mirror Universe cop, and a changeling cop. These three will be guaranteed NOT the alignment they investigate for - but not guaranteed town.
- Everyone else will have a small role - generally either an X-shot version of a power role or a role of marginal or even negative utility.
- These roles, and characters, will be assigned 100 percent independent of alignment, with the exception of the cops, who cannot be the alignment they investigate. Knowing someone's role or character will not tell you if they're scum.
- There will be only one version of each character in game. So if there's a Mirror Universe Bashir, there won't also be a Changeling Bashir or a Bashir Prime.
- The game is designed to be reasonably balanced in most configuration. But some possible rolls of the dice (e.g. all 3 Ferengi on one scum team) might need to be redone

Quick primer on Deep Space Nine:

It's the third Star Trek series, and the only one to be set on a space station rather than a ship. As such, it has a much richer tapestry of ongoing plotlines than other Star Treks, starting with the discovery of the galaxy's first stable wormhole (which is also home to non-linear time aliens who some characters worship as Gods) to a full on war with aliens from the other side of the wormhole that lasts the last 3 seasons of the show.

The Maquis are dissatisfied members of the Federation (the intergalactic alliance Earth is part of in the 24th century). When Starfleet officers defect to the Maquis on the show, they tend to do it secretly at first, using their rank and position to steal something to help the resistance. So a nice mafia flavor hook.

The Mirror Universe is a ridiculous Star Trek concept - an alternate reality where good people are evil and evil people are good. It started out in the original series, but DS9 did about one mirror universe episode per season.

Changelings are the big bosses of the Dominion, the bad guys in the war. Odo, the station's security chief, is a changeling, but he was raised in the alpha quadrant and he's loyal to the good guys. They can shape shift into animals, other people, inanimate objects, you name it. In the show, the Dominion replaces people with changeling operatives in order to destabilize the alpha quadrant and get them to weaken each other before launching an all out attack.

Knowing more about the show than that will help you make guesses about people's roles if you know their character. But even all that is more than you need to know for a mafia game.


The roles:

The IC (trigger variety):
Jake Sisko

The Cops:
Odo -- flavor/role cop, investigates to Bashir as Changeling even if not SK
Dr. Julian Bashir -- even night changeling cop and 1-shot doctor
Chief Miles O'Brien -- mirror universe cop
Lt. Cmdr. Worf -- maquis cop

The Ferengi:
(Ferengi are a neighborhood. They will be mod-confirmed to not include a specific NON-TOWNalignment. That can be the alignment that isn't in the game.)
Quark
Rom
Nog

Captain Benjamin Sisko -- roleblocker
Major Kira Nerys -- 1-shot vigilante (if town)/1-shot bulletproof (if scum)
Lt. Jadzia Dax / Lt. Ezri Dax -- 1-shot deathproof
Elim Garak, a simple tailor -- 1-shot bus driver OR 1-shot lightning rod (his choice)
Vedek Antos Bariel -- Universal Backup
Captain Kasidy Yates -- 1-shot commuter
General Martok - bomb
Gul Dukat - hated (stops working when it would take 1 or less vote to lynch) godfather
Morn - loved (stops working when he canít be lynched without self-voting)
Kai Winn - 1-shot double voter (can't be concealed)

In addition to these roles, the SK will gain the bulletproof and strongman modifiers

Town is known as Station-aligned in this game. The town win condition is as follows:
Quote
You win when all threats to the Station have been eliminated, and there is at least one Station-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop this from happening.

Setup clarifications:

Jake Sisko, the IC, is the only character whose alignment is not independent of his role. He is always town. His IC trigger ability can be triggered any time, night or day, and cannot be blocked.

The Ferengi are informed of an alignment that no one in their neighborhood has and that the UB doesn't have, so that if the UB becomes a Ferengi their information is still good.

The Changeling's bulletproof protects against all nightkills, including Martok's bomb. The Changeling's strongman gets through Bashir's doctor shot and scum!Kira's bulletproof. Kasidy can still survive by commuting and Garak can still redirect the shot with either of his abilities.

If Martok is doctored, all (non-bulletproof) players who targeted him with a nightkill still die. It's the act of targeting him, not the act of killing him, that triggers his ability.

Bariel, the UB, triggers when the first other player dies, unless that player is Dax or Jake, in which case it triggers on the second player dying (even if that player is Dax again). If two players die at once when Bariel would be triggered, he acquires one of their roles at random. Which one will not be publicly announced. Bariel's alignment does not change when he inherits a role. If he inherits the changeling role, he inherits only their base role, not their bulletproof or strongman modifiers. He does not inherit a scum player's nightkill. He does not inherit Odo's Miller ability.

Bariel can inherit a cop ability for his own faction. While the original cops are guaranteed to not be the alignment they investigate, this does not hold for the UB.

Bariel does get a new shot of a 1-shot power that has already been used.

If Bariel inherits Kira's power, he will get the version that's already in the game, regardless of his alignment.

Neither the Ferengi nor the scum teams have daychat.

Bashir may not doctor and cop on the same night. When Bashir uses his doctor ability, it will prevent one nightkill. If two or more nightkills are directed at the target, they will still die.

Kai Winn can use her double vote one day per game and must use it publicly by typing "doublevote: Name". Once she does, she can use the commands "undoublevote" and "doublevote: different name" to move it around. It persists for the rest of the game day, but expires after that, whether or not she ended the day with it on a player.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 09:02:03 am by jotheonah »
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Jimmmmm

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2019, 12:26:14 am »

/in
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2019, 12:32:59 am »

I remember the first run of this game going back when I played my first game.  It almost makes me want to play, but I have too much stuff going on.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2019, 12:41:19 am »

Odo -- flavor/role cop, falsely investigates as Changeling

Does this mean "Investigates as Changeling, falsely or otherwise"?

If he is, say, Maquis, will he return a negative result to the Maquis Cop?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2019, 01:31:04 am »

A wise man can hear profit /in the wind.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2019, 02:11:39 am »

Oh i remember read/ing this!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2019, 08:29:10 am »

Odo -- flavor/role cop, falsely investigates as Changeling

Does this mean "Investigates as Changeling, falsely or otherwise"?

If he is, say, Maquis, will he return a negative result to the Maquis Cop?

Good question. The flavor is that different cops use different kinds of tests. Odo only gets a false positive on a blood test.

So he only investigates as Changeling when investigates by Bashir. OíBrien or Worf will get ďnot MUĒ or ďnot MaquisĒ (unless Odo is one of those things)

This is different than Gul Dukat, who will give a negative result to all cops regardless of his alignment.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2019, 09:06:36 am »

So he only investigates as Changeling when investigates by Bashir. OíBrien or Worf will get ďnot MUĒ or ďnot MaquisĒ (unless Odo is one of those things)

I may be being a tad pedantic, but I'm questioning the "falsely". He might happen to be a Changeling, in which case Bashir will correctly investigate him as Changeling. Correct?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2019, 09:53:56 am »

So he only investigates as Changeling when investigates by Bashir. OíBrien or Worf will get ďnot MUĒ or ďnot MaquisĒ (unless Odo is one of those things)

I may be being a tad pedantic, but I'm questioning the "falsely". He might happen to be a Changeling, in which case Bashir will correctly investigate him as Changeling. Correct?



I'll edit the verbiage.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2019, 02:26:00 am »

o
m
g

Deep Space 9! Love the flavor

I am going to

/in

... but it is contingent upon the part about not starting it prior to the end of RMM51

Looks super fun!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2019, 10:11:38 am »

I had another thought about the setup. Iím going to pick the scum configuration with 2 coin flips rather than randomly choosing two of three teams. I think itís better that itís 50/50 SK+scum or scumx2 rather than 33/66 so town doesnít get a ďdefault assumptionĒ.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2019, 12:54:17 pm »

/in
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2019, 04:17:15 pm »

/in Unless youíd rather I co-mod with you.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2019, 06:32:59 pm »

/in Unless youíd rather I co-mod with you.

I think I need all the players I can get.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2019, 04:13:33 pm »

/in
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2019, 04:16:25 pm »

/tag, may be able to help comod, definitely cannot play.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2019, 05:53:21 pm »

/in

Loved DS9, so I really want to play. Maaaay have to duck out to avoid too many simultaneous commitments down the line.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2019, 06:37:35 pm »

/in. Missed the first one by a bit.  Gotta do this
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2019, 11:10:14 am »

/in

Thanks for reminding me to watch DS9. I only watched the first few episodes and couldn't get into it, but I hear it's awesome
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The SK in this setup seems super weak. Only 1-shot BP AND a guaranteed Cop against them? In a game of 18 players?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2019, 04:16:18 am »

(Ferengi are a neighborhood. They will be mod-confirmed to not include a specific alignment. That can be the alignment that isn't in the game.)
Can you clarify how that works? The alignment not included will be posted in the QT? Is the alignment excluded chosen before picking the Ferengi or the other way around? And how will the excluded alignment be determined exactly?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2019, 08:14:35 am »

(Ferengi are a neighborhood. They will be mod-confirmed to not include a specific alignment. That can be the alignment that isn't in the game.)
Can you clarify how that works? The alignment not included will be posted in the QT? Is the alignment excluded chosen before picking the Ferengi or the other way around? And how will the excluded alignment be determined exactly?

Other way around. The Ferengi are chosen. Out of all the possible alignments not represented among them, including the one not in the game, one is chosen and they're all told about it.

The SK in this setup seems super weak. Only 1-shot BP AND a guaranteed Cop against them? In a game of 18 players?

I'm open to suggestions for buffing, but there aren't too many good ones. Strongman and Ninja do almost nothing in this setup.  I guess I could give them Loved or a 1-shot extra vote.
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Keep in mind, Sk also has a dedicated miller which mitigates the effectiveness of the dedicated cop a bit. But actually thinking about it, maybe full bulletproof is the solution. Itís also somewhat flavorful, since changeligs are quite hard to kill.
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Keep in mind, Sk also has a dedicated miller which mitigates the effectiveness of the dedicated cop a bit. But actually thinking about it, maybe full bulletproof is the solution. Itís also somewhat flavorful, since changeligs are quite hard to kill.
It doesn't mitigate it quite as much when you consider that the SK cannot actually claim that role without being counterclaimed. I'd really want to give them something to avoid being exposed, because that is really really unfun. Maybe X-shot Commuter or something along those lines. Though in that case "No result" may still out them. Having an SK Cop just seems like a pretty bad idea, I'm not sure it can work.
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Keep in mind, Sk also has a dedicated miller which mitigates the effectiveness of the dedicated cop a bit. But actually thinking about it, maybe full bulletproof is the solution. Itís also somewhat flavorful, since changeligs are quite hard to kill.
It doesn't mitigate it quite as much when you consider that the SK cannot actually claim that role without being counterclaimed. I'd really want to give them something to avoid being exposed, because that is really really unfun. Maybe X-shot Commuter or something along those lines. Though in that case "No result" may still out them. Having an SK Cop just seems like a pretty bad idea, I'm not sure it can work.

Hmmm. The heart of the setup really is the idea of three cops that each investigate a different faction, but only two of those factions are in the game. I think if I remove the SK cop it kind of kills the whole thing.

I'm not sure I agree with you. I mean, yes, if I'm the SK and I get SK-copped it really sucks. But it's not like that's a random event I have no control over. The SK needs to play in such a way that the cop doesn't target them, or they need to figure out who the cop is and kill them before they catch them. It's hard, but it's not impossible. And the first night, if they're bulletproof, they have a 1/17 chance of being investigated-- pretty good odds.

The other thing I could do is add more roles to the pool and have some roles not in the game. That makes fakeclaiming a little more possible. I would probably auto-include the main cops, but I could definitely put Odo on the rotating in and out list.

Also, other folks feel free to weigh in. I'm very open to feedback before the game starts, that's the beauty of an open setup.
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What if you give the SK 1 or 2 shots of active investigation immunity? They have to choose which night to use it,but if they choose right they get cleared?

Also yeah you're gonna need some more fake claims.
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Part of the whole point of the setup is to make fakeclaims not a thing. Since anyone can have any role, you can always just claim. I like the X-shot immunity idea, though that kind of makes Bashir pretty weak, since he can't even for sure rule people out.
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jotheonah

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Ooh there's actually another big problem with the Miller thing in an open setup. If someone gets investigated as SK and claims Odo, the next question is who have you investigated (and what did you find) and then they're basically sunk. So that's actually sort of a big problem.
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So...if I don't read the setup at all....would you say that's a disadvantage? advantage?  vantage?
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/out
I'm actually gonna be kinda busy during the time this game should take place. If my schedule clears up I'll be in again. If i'm gonna play mafia, i'm gonna give it my all and be super active.
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MiX

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I just played my first game of f.ds mafia. I cannot stop.

/in

I've never felt more alive.
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jotheonah

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I've never felt more alive.

Ironic.

After much consideration, Iíve made the following changes: the changeling (SK) will gain full bulletproof and full strongman, neither of which will show up on odoís Investigation.

Dr. Bashir becomes an even-night SK cop but gains 1-shot doc.

I believe these changes should help give the serial killer a fighting chance, though it is still, as always, a challenging role to draw.
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mcmcsalot

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I just played my first game of f.ds mafia. I cannot stop.

/in

I've never felt more alive.

One..of..us..one..of..us..
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Should I play?  I survived for a fairly long time in the first iteration ó donít recall my role but I was town.
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Should I play?  I survived for a fairly long time in the first iteration ó donít recall my role but I was town.

Do eeeetttttt
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Should I play?  I survived for a fairly long time in the first iteration ó donít recall my role but I was town.

According to my notes, you were Worf! I'm sure you played with honor.
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ooh, dibs on Worf!
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It's about time to /in.
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Agreed. /in
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/in
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/in
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jotheonah

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We just need 4 more! (and for faust's game to end but I don't think we're too far off). Maybe we could get a Galzria? Or a raerae? Or someone's roommate/spouse/drinking buddy?
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/in
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Trying to talk roommate into this. He's American but works the graveyard shift so he'd be online at the same time as the Europeans.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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I have typed a reply here somewhere around six times, I have no idea how feasible it is to be in two games at once for me...

F/ine.
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I have typed a reply here somewhere around six times, I have no idea how feasible it is to be in two games at once for me...

F/ine.

You never know until you try?
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jotheonah

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So it seems like everyone does individual QTs these days. Has private messaging for roles just fallen out of favor?
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So it seems like everyone does individual QTs these days. Has private messaging for roles just fallen out of favor?

Yeah, it has. I think it is a lot easier to manage as a mod than getting a million PMs. And some people like to write their thoughts down somewhere other than in the thread (so scummy, I know).
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raerae

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Trying to talk roommate into this. He's American but works the graveyard shift so he'd be online at the same time as the Europeans.

If you're roommate /ins then I will too. Obviously this should have enormous bearing on their decision.
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raerae

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Trying to talk roommate into this. He's American but works the graveyard shift so he'd be online at the same time as the Europeans.

If you're roommate /ins then I will too. Obviously this should have enormous bearing on their decision.

*Your, ugh
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2019, 01:27:59 pm »

So I just reread the setup, Iím really really excited for this game. Itís feels like a lot of fun/activity while being quite balanced.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2019, 01:49:43 pm »

/in

You wrote it. It was meant to be.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2019, 02:26:44 pm »

/in

You wrote it. It was meant to be.

Itís too late for her now, sheís trapped.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2019, 04:06:23 pm »

C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2019, 04:11:04 pm »

It's a twofer if The Gloobs' roomie joins.  Fill the spots, get some awesome folks, start the game.  It's. Perfect.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2019, 09:13:20 pm »

Sure, I'm in.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2019, 09:16:13 pm »

Chicken warlord is almost certainly Gloobleís roommate, so raerae I guess youíre in. Hopefully you and shraeye can handle being in the game together with the two-year-old.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2019, 09:54:32 pm »

Chicken warlord is almost certainly Gloobleís roommate, so raerae I guess youíre in. Hopefully you and shraeye can handle being in the game together with the two-year-old.

We could never handle it without the two year old.  This will go well.

/in
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Full! PMs coming soon)
« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2019, 10:34:31 pm »

Ok well. Please re-read the setup information as I have been tinkering with it this whole time and parts of it may have changed.

I don't know/remember how to move this thing into the Mafia Games thread, so I would be grateful if ashersky could assist me in that endeavor. I will send out role PMs with QT links soon (like, in the next couple of days). I will post again here once they're out, and then once everyone confirms Night 0 will begin. If you are /inned and can no longer commit, PM me.

If you are interested in being my co-mod, PM me at any time.

Thread locked.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 10:38:47 pm by jotheonah »
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Full! PMs coming soon)
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2019, 02:03:19 pm »

I'm going on vacation, starting in a week and lasting for 10 days.  I would happily sub in at that time.

To move the thread, you go to the bottom of the thread and click the move topic button on the left.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Full! PMs coming soon)
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2019, 03:02:44 pm »

Thanks!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2019, 10:24:30 pm »

PMs are out! Please confirm in your QT, even if I accidentally said to confirm in thread in your PM.

Night 0 has begun, though no one has night 0 actions so that doesn't really mean anything.

Anyway, Day 1 will begin Saturday, February 23rd at 8:00 am forum time, unless a certain number of people request a later start in their QTs.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2019, 02:47:13 pm »

Everyone has confirmed and not enough people requested a later start, so the game will start 8 am tomorrow as planned.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2019, 03:17:21 pm »

Some clarifications about the Universal Backup role (Bariel), just as an FYI:

The Universal Backup inherits only the powers tied to the flavor name. They would not inherit the SK's bonus powers. They would inherit whichever power Kira has this game (even if that would result in a scum vigilante or a town bulletproof). They do not inherit Odo's flavor-based Miller ability.

They do get a new charge if a 1-shot power has already been used.

The Universal Backup cannot inherit Jake Sisko's IC power, regardless of whether they are town or scum. If Jake dies first, Bariel will instead gain the power of the next player to die.

Finally, if for whatever reason two players die simultaneously, the UB inherits a power at random.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2019, 07:31:58 am »





"Well, you're nobody til somebody loves you
So find yourself somebody to love!"

As Vic Fontaine finishes his set, Miles O'Brien and Julian Bashir stand up and applaud.

"Wouldn't it be great?" Julian asks Miles "Living in this time, in this place?"

"I don't know, Julian. As much fun as the holosuite is, if this were really Las Vegas in the 50s, it wouldn't be so relaxing. You know the mob ran this town."

"The mob?" asks the young doctor.

"As in mafia, kid," Vic says, joining them at the bar. "As in wakin' up with a horse head in your bed if you piss off the wrong guy. And never knowing for sure who the wrong guy is."

"Thank God we don't have to worry about that," O'Brien says sarcastically, finishing his drink. "We just have to worry about Changeling inflitrators, Mirror Universe doubles, and Maquis spies. Did you get a special assignment from the Captain too?"

"I'm actually not supposed to talk about it," Julian says. "But do me a favor and stop by the infirmary later today. I just remembered I need to redo some of your blood work..."


Day One has begun

Not voting (18): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, MiX, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players.

Thread unlocked



« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 08:00:23 am by jotheonah »
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2019, 08:14:43 am »

First! vote:raerae because I can!
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2019, 08:15:16 am »

And so it begins. Great opening joth!

Being an open setup, there's a lot of things to say about this game...things that might not be optimal to say right now, so I'll stay quiet, for now.

What a line-up! So many competent players, compared to them I'm an ant...

But first, chickenwarlord, can you make a signature or put your Shuffle iT name? That'll make rereading easier.

Of everyone here, I know who's a threat: Vote: Robz888, you're supposed to be good as scum, right? Well let's test that.

I have things I want to say to people but that'll break the rules, however this won't: Awaclus, I admire your mafia skills, please teach me how to play like you.

That is all. Let the game commence! So excited!

PPE 1: Dammit!
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2019, 08:18:14 am »

I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2019, 08:18:58 am »

I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2019, 08:29:31 am »

I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.

Weíll see.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2019, 08:35:22 am »

Vote: LaLight

This will be 3 scum games in a row, right?

M120, RMM51, and this game. They are on a streak! You can beat WW's streak, I know it!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2019, 08:48:36 am »

Vote: LaLight

This will be 3 scum games in a row, right?

M120, RMM51, and this game. They are on a streak! You can beat WW's streak, I know it!
Something something ongoing game.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2019, 08:49:40 am »

I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.
How ironic coming from you.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2019, 08:55:30 am »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2019, 08:59:43 am »

I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.
How ironic coming from you.

How is that ironic coming from me?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2019, 09:02:07 am »

I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.
How ironic coming from you.

How is that ironic coming from me?
I remember you for a long time always opening with a silverspawn vote because he was scum in Futuramafia. Now Glooble does the same to you.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2019, 09:06:49 am »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2019, 09:12:18 am »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.

Why would you out a cop instantly?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2019, 09:14:01 am »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2019, 09:14:52 am »

For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2019, 09:27:09 am »

For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.

To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...

Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.

I'll need to think about this...
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2019, 09:30:47 am »

For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.

To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...

Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.

I'll need to think about this...

Keep in mind we only have a 1-shot doctor, who might be scum, and maybe a 1-shot bus driver (who also might be scum.) Thatís not a lot of protective roles to protect anyone who might claim.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2019, 09:34:36 am »

For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.

To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...

Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.

I'll need to think about this...

Keep in mind we only have a 1-shot doctor, who might be scum, and maybe a 1-shot bus driver (who also might be scum.) Thatís not a lot of protective roles to protect anyone who might claim.
Hence my being less sure about the IC thing. We don't need to discuss that; they can just decide on their own. But Gul Dukat does not need to be protected, so that is definitely a good claim.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2019, 09:38:38 am »

Okay

Gul Dukat - hated godfather, non alignment indicative
Jake Sisko - Triggerable IC

Pros of Gul claiming are cops donít waste target.
Cons of Gul claiming are if town he is probably left alive for scum to kill in lylo.
18 people (17 targets) with 4 cops means each cop has a 5.88% chance of hitting him.
Iím not sure the pro is actually worth the con day one based on the small changes of him getting hit. Overall I think itís a low pro and a low con so we are not making a mistake either way. Maybe If Gul think there is any chance they are going to be an investigations target at the end of the day they should claim.

Pros of Jake claiming are we get an IC day on and cops donít waste an investigative target, also Jake becomes go to night kill and protects cops.
Cons of Jake claiming are simply he fact that the longer we wait the more helpful an IC can be.
I think this obtains max cost/benefit at on Day 2. There is a chance a cop has a result in day 2 creating a decision for scum to make. We will have a lynch and information for Jake to help us work through.

So I think Gull claim if they are potentially a target and Jake claim tomorrow.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2019, 09:39:16 am »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.
Why is Gul Dukat a useless target?  He's not the IC.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2019, 09:40:48 am »

For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.

To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...

Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.

I'll need to think about this...

Keep in mind we only have a 1-shot doctor, who might be scum, and maybe a 1-shot bus driver (who also might be scum.) Thatís not a lot of protective roles to protect anyone who might claim.
Hence my being less sure about the IC thing. We don't need to discuss that; they can just decide on their own. But Gul Dukat does not need to be protected, so that is definitely a good claim.

True. Letís also keep in mind the possibility of a scum double-voter when putting someone to L-2, though the fact that they have to announce the double vote publicly probably keeps scum from using that power early in the game.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2019, 09:41:41 am »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.
Why is Gul Dukat a useless target?  He's not the IC.

Heís a useless target because heís a Godfather. Heíll investigate as station-aligned no matter what.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2019, 09:46:24 am »

Oooh, missed the part after the parenthesis in the rules; focused too much on hated.  Sooo, yeah....guess that's not my role....#wifom

But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim.  There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard.  RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2019, 09:48:42 am »

But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim.  There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard.  RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
RVS is bullshit.

Also sure town roles can decide this for themselves. But how do we know that Gul is town? Scum needs to be forced to make that claim.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2019, 09:53:19 am »

But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim.  There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard.  RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
RVS is bullshit.

Also sure town roles can decide this for themselves. But how do we know that Gul is town? Scum needs to be forced to make that claim.

Do we care is scum!gull claims or not? A claimed Gull is not going to be treated any different than all other players alignment wise. Thus claiming Gull at L-anything shouldnít change our want to lynch them at all. The only town pro we get for any alignment Gull claiming is so they donít get copped. And the only town con is if Gull is town scum will not want to kill them to be able to abuse them in mylo. In fact scum can kinda force town to lynch Gull eventually or risk losing in the event Gull is town.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2019, 09:55:35 am »

But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim.  There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard.  RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
RVS is bullshit.

Also sure town roles can decide this for themselves. But how do we know that Gul is town? Scum needs to be forced to make that claim.
Yeah, I agree on RVS. 

I don't see how getting Gul to claim is particularly damning if it's scum.   Like, obviously getting scum to claim any role would be good because A) they can't counterclaim in the future and B) we'd know who scum is.

So yeah, town should decide when to claim for themselves.  Scum, you all need to claim right now.  #winning
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2019, 09:57:41 am »

RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.

Love the joke, disagree with the premise. Itís all about encouraging conversation so we have something to analyze later when we have more information. Plus every so often scum trips up, which is more likely with more talking.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2019, 09:58:43 am »

Oh I missed the town benefit of scum!gull claiming by locking them into a gull claim. That may tip the scales in favor of gull claiming.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2019, 10:00:50 am »

RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.

Love the joke, disagree with the premise. Itís all about encouraging conversation so we have something to analyze later when we have more information. Plus every so often scum trips up, which is more likely with more talking.

I really just said that for the joke, plus a soft emphasis on "let's stop making shraeye accidently claim not-X".

I'm all for talking.  And the hashtags.  #important
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2019, 10:01:45 am »

Oh I missed the town benefit of scum!gull claiming by locking them into a gull claim. That may tip the scales in favor of gull claiming.
Are you serious?!  My "it's not worth it" post makes you think it's worth it.  #backfire #facepalm

Disregard mcmcs, he's not right.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2019, 10:11:41 am »

Oh I missed the town benefit of scum!gull claiming by locking them into a gull claim. That may tip the scales in favor of gull claiming.
Are you serious?!  My "it's not worth it" post makes you think it's worth it.  #backfire #facepalm

Disregard mcmcs, he's not right.

I said maybe, the pro of potentially locking scum into a claim as well as the pro of not wasting a cop shot on Gull, as well as the pro of not accidentally clearing an unclaimed scum!gull who lies. Might outweigh the con of forcing us to think about lynching gull later in the game due to the numbers.

Iím not convinced either way but there are more pros than I initially thought.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2019, 10:14:31 am »

Also important to note that all cops arenít guaranteed to be town so the chances that a town!cop hits gull is pretty low.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2019, 10:19:03 am »

Also important to note that all cops arenít guaranteed to be town so the chances that a town!cop hits gull is pretty low.
Yeah but it doesn't really matter for us whether a town Cop hits scum or a scum Cop hits other scum.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2019, 10:27:38 am »

Also important to note that all cops arenít guaranteed to be town so the chances that a town!cop hits gull is pretty low.
Yeah but it doesn't really matter for us whether a town Cop hits scum or a scum Cop hits other scum.

True
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2019, 10:49:09 am »

I highly doubt scum wants to fake claim...maybe temporarily, but eventually everyone can confirm everything anyway.

Remember that Gul can't be quicklynched if there's only 1 scum, so there's that. Overall I'm pretty sure Gul should claim...but I want to hear from others.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2019, 10:54:06 am »

Wow this is a big game.

I donít really have an opinion on those two roles claiming.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2019, 11:14:55 am »

shraeye seems like town.

Have I played with you before?  I forget. 

Also, what is the whole big deal for someone claiming D1?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2019, 11:24:38 am »

shraeye seems like town.

Have I played with you before?  I forget. 

Also, what is the whole big deal for someone claiming D1?

What??? Well that makes me feel old
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2019, 11:28:57 am »

shraeye seems like town.

Have I played with you before?  I forget. 

Also, what is the whole big deal for someone claiming D1?

What??? Well that makes me feel old

yeah, my first game was M33.  Or actually MXXXIII since we still used roman numerals.  And then I missed shraeye in Adventure Time....so I don't think I have played with them?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2019, 11:30:09 am »

Vote: e
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2019, 11:31:23 am »

But actually I am right between you and Robz for age, so you aren't that old.  Just been on f.ds longer playing mafia.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2019, 11:32:09 am »

Vote: e

vote: faust

for doubting my shraeye read.  They are basically an IC.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2019, 11:46:01 am »

Darn everything, I was planning on just coming out of the gate claiming Gul, but now because you people talked about it so much, it is much less exciting.

I claim Gul.

I am pretty sure it is the correct play as well.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2019, 11:47:17 am »

Neat. Vote: Eddie
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2019, 11:49:28 am »

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2019, 11:49:52 am »

Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2019, 11:51:45 am »

Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.

See, I told you we should be voting faust
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2019, 12:48:57 pm »

Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.

See, I told you we should be voting faust

I disagree and will also vote: europe
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2019, 01:05:24 pm »

Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi!

Iím at a conference in Seattle for work this weekend, so Iím not going to be present in any real way until Tuesday.

I read the OG version of the game on the plane last night. Holy cow...Day 1 was like 2 weeks long. 50 pages! Iím glad yíall cut that ish down before I got here.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2019, 01:54:08 pm »

Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.

See, I told you we should be voting faust

I disagree and will also vote: europe
If we lynch him today, the Universal Backup will inherit the Hated Godfather. We do not want that.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #117 on: February 23, 2019, 02:09:44 pm »

Quote from: mcmcsalot link=topic=194 59.msg789804#msg789804 date=1550927683
First! vote:raerae because I can!

 :-*  :-*  :-*

Right back attcha!

Vote: mcmc
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #118 on: February 23, 2019, 02:12:49 pm »

I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

I know I had some activity problems there, but not getting voted by any of the people using this logic makes me a bit sad.

Also, I've been thinking I need a good sig quote too, when I ISO players a lot of people have really fun things to search "potato," "Joth is useless, "UncleEurope."
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #119 on: February 23, 2019, 02:16:18 pm »

Neat. Vote: Eddie

Vote: faust

I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #120 on: February 23, 2019, 02:18:57 pm »

Vote: Snow

Nice to be in a game with you again, bro.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2019, 02:23:25 pm »

I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.

This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.

I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #122 on: February 23, 2019, 02:24:10 pm »

Also, Shraeye, just sit out the theory talk so you don't soft not-X info if you want, but with this setup we're going to need to talk theory at certain points, especially after claims.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2019, 02:28:52 pm »

Vote: Snow

Nice to be in a game with you again, bro.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting super paranoid about you D2.

I was thinking when I came in I'd open with jokey stuff about you and then I got sucked into serious mode after 1 post.  Really glad you signed up for this game, even if you haven't seen BestTrek. I sat down and watched the whole opening video before reading the game I love it so much. But if I'm going to talk you into a new old scifi show, it should probably be Farscape.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2019, 02:36:03 pm »

I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.

This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.

I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.

In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were able to make very informed decisions most nights.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #125 on: February 23, 2019, 02:36:08 pm »

Advice for Jake
While I'm telling people what to do, Jake should absolutely hold off on triggering until at least the day he thinks he's going to be lynched. It would help to trigger it earlier in the day, not like when the wagon is L-1 or something, but sometimes you go into a night thinking "I'm so obvtown, I'm totally going to eat the kill" and if you live that night, we're better served by not having triggered the IC ability.

Eventually most people get suspected again no matter how widely townread they were earlier on, and when you feel the game shifting in that direction, I think that's the time to trigger it, enough time left in the Day that the ability is useful but not so early in the game as to have been useless because you were being townread anyway. Because with the weak protections in the game, and the possibility of them being scum, Jake is very likely to die the night after he goes off.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #126 on: February 23, 2019, 02:37:33 pm »

In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were able to make very informed decisions most nights.

Yeah, and I think some of the most useful bits of information were what players not to worry too much about. Which is even more true here since the setup is open
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #127 on: February 23, 2019, 02:38:17 pm »

While we're on the subject, I'd totally have made the previous post as Jake.

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #128 on: February 23, 2019, 02:56:27 pm »

Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.

See, I told you we should be voting faust

I disagree and will also vote: europe
If we lynch him today, the Universal Backup will inherit the Hated Godfather. We do not want that.
right unvote
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #129 on: February 23, 2019, 03:01:51 pm »

Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi!

Iím at a conference in Seattle for work this weekend, so Iím not going to be present in any real way until Tuesday.

I read the OG version of the game on the plane last night. Holy cow...Day 1 was like 2 weeks long. 50 pages! Iím glad yíall cut that ish down before I got here.

My favorite part was when yuma claimed he hadn't used the role he was lying about having because he accidentally e-mailed the mod's old e-mail address that he never checks and people actually bought it.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2019, 03:17:41 pm »

I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.
Dude, like NOTHING has happened.  We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.
Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit.  It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town.  A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.

Also, Shraeye, just sit out the theory talk so you don't soft not-X info if you want, but with this setup we're going to need to talk theory at certain points, especially after claims.
Like, literally, this.  I can make that decision for myself. #sarcasticthanks
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2019, 03:29:16 pm »

I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.
Dude, like NOTHING has happened.  We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.
Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit.  It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town.  A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.

Also, Shraeye, just sit out the theory talk so you don't soft not-X info if you want, but with this setup we're going to need to talk theory at certain points, especially after claims.
Like, literally, this.  I can make that decision for myself. #sarcasticthanks

I trust you to make the right decision, you are basically conf!town at this point
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #132 on: February 23, 2019, 03:30:13 pm »

Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an IC
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #133 on: February 23, 2019, 03:40:37 pm »

I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.
Dude, like NOTHING has happened.  We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.

Guess again!
Vote: shraeye
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #134 on: February 23, 2019, 04:11:25 pm »

Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an IC
You should try this on someone else if you want to become an IC.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #135 on: February 23, 2019, 04:17:18 pm »

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.
The main problem in discussing it is that invariably people will drop hints about whether they are the role in question etc. That kind of half-info is the worst we can do, but on the other hand, it is kind of impossible to get to a town consensus without going through revealing discussion.

So I advocate townies deciding for themselves. They may make the wrong decision, but at least that means that at the end of the day, I get to yell at them and blame them for losing the game for us if they do.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #136 on: February 23, 2019, 04:29:51 pm »

Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an IC
You should try this on someone else if you want to become an IC.

Back at you
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #137 on: February 23, 2019, 04:46:52 pm »

They may make the wrong decision, but at least that means that at the end of the day, I get to yell at them and blame them for losing the game for us if they do.

I get tired of yelling though.

But seriously, I think it really needs saying given the rash of unnecessary and kind of bad claims lately surrounded by most of the yelling being "Everyone can decide for themselves, stop telling me what to do, ya jerk. By the way, I'm a VT."
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #138 on: February 23, 2019, 04:54:00 pm »

Dude, like NOTHING has happened.  We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.
In that daily effort in which intelligence and passion mingle and delight each other, the absurd man discovers reads that will make up the greatest of his strengths.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #139 on: February 23, 2019, 04:58:00 pm »

Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit.  It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town.  A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.

I'm not even talking about bad choices that save yourself, and I'm not explicitly talking about you. I'm talking about bad choices that don't even serve a purpose. Collectively towns don't act in the best interest of town all the time, and it feels like there's this movement for everyone to just be chill with that.

I'm not sorry about being rude, because the alternative is to keep patting people on the back for making suboptimal decisions and not thinking things through, because that's their right as players.

The only consequence for bad claims is getting picked on about it a bit, and I think we need to do a bit more of that.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #140 on: February 23, 2019, 04:59:41 pm »

Like the only reason I'm even saying this is people keep jumping up to say "It's okay, town can just claim at whatever dumb time they want and anyone telling them otherwise is a big dumb jerk."

Won't anyone think of the big dumb jerks?

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #141 on: February 23, 2019, 05:11:18 pm »

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?

You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?

Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?

So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?

Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #142 on: February 23, 2019, 05:14:08 pm »

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?

You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?

Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?

So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?

Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #143 on: February 23, 2019, 05:18:47 pm »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.

Why would you out a cop instantly?

I feel like I should answer this: just because I said I didn't see the advantage of outing a non-cop doesn't mean I saw an advantage in outing cops: we were talking about Gul, and we know that he's not a cop.

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #144 on: February 23, 2019, 05:22:31 pm »

UoS has a good point. Like, it goes without saying that when to claim is up to each individual player. And regardless of what you think about claiming in general, this particular game is set up in such a way as to make claiming much, much more useful for scum than it is for town. Because role has almost no impact on alignment. So scum knowing where the power roles are is very, very good for them, sinc they can take out the most powerful town. Town knowing people's roles is especially unhelpful because it doesn't actually help us catch scum at all.

Dukat was arguably an exception because hated is a good thing to know about so you don't accidentally hammer someone and I guess it helps cops to not waste a shot. But any additional claims are just going to help scum get more useful night kills. So let's not do that.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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2.71828.....

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #145 on: February 23, 2019, 05:23:51 pm »

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?

You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?

Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?

So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?

Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What was my reason that shraeye is town?
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #146 on: February 23, 2019, 05:25:25 pm »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.

Why would you out a cop instantly?

I feel like I should answer this: just because I said I didn't see the advantage of outing a non-cop doesn't mean I saw an advantage in outing cops: we were talking about Gul, and we know that he's not a cop.

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.

That doesn't really answer my question. The way you worded this implies that there's a perfectly logical reason to out a cop right away, and I'm struggling to see when that would ever be a good idea, especially in a setup where town has so few protective roles, possibly even none.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #147 on: February 23, 2019, 05:28:29 pm »

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What was my reason that shraeye is town?

There are no masons, no cop results, and I doubt this is partner interaction. Thus I believe that you have a genuine townread.

Mine is him soft-claiming not Gul feeling very casual, that and his general jokey-ness, which I believe comes from town!shraeye, based on previous games I read.

Any questions?

PPE 1: There are no advantages of outing a cop. There are also no advantages of outing a non-cop. Please state if you wish for me to clarify.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #148 on: February 23, 2019, 05:45:42 pm »

Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an IC
this is backwards thinking vote: E
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #149 on: February 23, 2019, 05:53:23 pm »

Hey everyone.
Weekend prod dodge.
Will dive in tomorrow.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #150 on: February 23, 2019, 05:54:30 pm »

I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.

Why would you out a cop instantly?

I feel like I should answer this: just because I said I didn't see the advantage of outing a non-cop doesn't mean I saw an advantage in outing cops: we were talking about Gul, and we know that he's not a cop.

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.

Mix how old are you and where are you from and what is your favorite hobby? this will honestly help me get your voice and read you better
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #151 on: February 23, 2019, 05:57:00 pm »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #152 on: February 23, 2019, 05:57:45 pm »

I read the OG version of the game on the plane last night. Holy cow...Day 1 was like 2 weeks long. 50 pages! Iím glad yíall cut that ish down before I got here.

My favorite part was when yuma claimed he hadn't used the role he was lying about having because he accidentally e-mailed the mod's old e-mail address that he never checks and people actually bought it.

Right? Joth clearly struggled with deciding to to Jo-the-O or Jo-to-the-0! The alias struggle is real!
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #153 on: February 23, 2019, 05:59:38 pm »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

There's one other important question:

Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #154 on: February 23, 2019, 06:01:42 pm »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

There's one other important question:

Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"

I'm sorry for not being pacovf.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #155 on: February 23, 2019, 06:38:47 pm »

Vote Count 1.1

"Captain, Gul Dukat's ship is requesting permission to dock," Major Kira says, the irritation in her voice obvious.

Captain Sisko puts his head in his hands.

"Today of all days he decides to pay us a visit. On screen."

"Benjamin!" the Cardassian says with an almost convincing smile. "I hope this isn't an inconvenient time for a visit but my ship needs some minor repairs and my crew could use some shore leave. Mind if we come aboard?"

"Make yourself at home, Dukat, just stay away from the secure areas," Kira cuts in. "We have a lot going on right now and we don't need your brand of trouble"

"Nerys, you wound me. Trouble! I thought you enjoyed my visits. I know I certainly do. Perhaps you'll have dinner tonight with me and my daughter?"

"Give Ziyal my regrets. I'm washing my hair tonight," Kira says with no trace of authenticity. "You're cleared to doc on Pylon 3."

She unceremoniously cuts off the comm link, but the panel beeps again immediately.

"Sir, you're not going to believe this. I've got another request to dock ... from Kai Winn."

"You take care of it, Major," Sisko says. "I can tell I'm going to need another raktajino."


raerae (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (2): faust, mcmcsalot
shraeye (1): raerae
UmbrageOfSnow (1): UncleEurope

Not voting (9): Jimmmmm, LaLight, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 06:40:14 pm by jotheonah »
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #156 on: February 23, 2019, 07:28:33 pm »

I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What.  What what?  e has no reason.  How on earth can you like it?
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #157 on: February 23, 2019, 07:31:14 pm »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

Studying math is sure sign of being scum.

PS: You and shraeye should talk math (not in thread because snore city!) and see if you overlap.  #research
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #158 on: February 23, 2019, 07:32:39 pm »

There are no masons, no cop results, and I doubt this is partner interaction. Thus I believe that you have a genuine townread.

Mine is him soft-claiming not Gul feeling very casual, that and his general jokey-ness, which I believe comes from town!shraeye, based on previous games I read.

Any questions?

Yes.  I have so many questions.  You said "I like e's reasons".  He said "Why?"  You said "Well I just assumed you had some; here are MY reasons".

If you have no idea what e's reasons are......then why do you like them???
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #159 on: February 23, 2019, 07:33:29 pm »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

Studying math is sure sign of being scum.

PS: You and shraeye should talk math (not in thread because snore city!) and see if you overlap.  #research
Whatever; you can't get enough of mathtalk and you know it.
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Robz888

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #160 on: February 23, 2019, 08:01:31 pm »

My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #161 on: February 23, 2019, 08:23:25 pm »

My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #162 on: February 23, 2019, 08:48:27 pm »

My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?

Not me
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Chickenwarlord

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #163 on: February 23, 2019, 08:51:54 pm »

Does anyone like Day 1?
I imagine it is fun for the mastermind watching biases play out. Not a big fan of first day shots in the dark myself - but with multiple scum teams might be a tad more viable.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #164 on: February 23, 2019, 10:30:28 pm »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

Oh sorry if I asked probing questions, Iím a really open person and forget sometimes itís rude to request personal info. But thank you that does in fact help.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #165 on: February 23, 2019, 10:31:04 pm »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

All the cool kids have neopets accounts

There's one other important question:

Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #166 on: February 23, 2019, 10:32:49 pm »

My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

This isnít a meta itís a failure to be care to be good at the game.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #167 on: February 23, 2019, 10:33:51 pm »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

All the cool kids have neopets accounts

There's one other important question:

Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"

Quote fail

All the cool kids have neopets accounts
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #168 on: February 23, 2019, 10:41:55 pm »

Yíall are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.

But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.

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ashersky

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #169 on: February 23, 2019, 11:03:20 pm »

My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

This isnít a meta itís a failure to be care to be good at the game.

Nice.

Man, so many pages already.

vote: UoS[
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #170 on: February 24, 2019, 01:48:52 am »

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What was my reason that shraeye is town?

There are no masons, no cop results, and I doubt this is partner interaction. Thus I believe that you have a genuine townread.

Mine is him soft-claiming not Gul feeling very casual, that and his general jokey-ness, which I believe comes from town!shraeye, based on previous games I read.

Any questions?

PPE 1: There are no advantages of outing a cop. There are also no advantages of outing a non-cop. Please state if you wish for me to clarify.

Are you scum?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #171 on: February 24, 2019, 01:51:52 am »

My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?
Yes, it is the best Day.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #172 on: February 24, 2019, 01:56:13 am »

I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.

This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.

I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.

Only town says "I like this one person claiming" then "claiming hurts town"
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #173 on: February 24, 2019, 01:56:56 am »

Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #174 on: February 24, 2019, 02:12:11 am »

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.

Wait, what does this mean?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #175 on: February 24, 2019, 02:20:53 am »

Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!
Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #176 on: February 24, 2019, 04:43:55 am »

I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What.  What what?  e has no reason.  How on earth can you like it?

Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...

E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.

Happy?

Are you scum?

No.
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I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #177 on: February 24, 2019, 04:51:42 am »

Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!
Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie

Why Eddie?  Because they claimed a role that will likely never be NKed?  Not good enough for me.

You know what is good enough for me though?  The fact that I haven't played with them before.  In the same vein lets also add MiX, raerae, and chicken to the non-D1 lynch list.

Down to 11!

Speaking of chicken, where are they?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #178 on: February 24, 2019, 04:53:33 am »

I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What.  What what?  e has no reason.  How on earth can you like it?

Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...

E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.

Happy?

Are you scum?

No.

Wait, we played together?  which game?  And why don't I remember it?  Losing my memory....no good at all.

Good news though is that you are back in the D1 lynch pool!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #179 on: February 24, 2019, 04:55:06 am »

@Robz888, I have a strong urge to slap you into doing setup stuff, but I fear I might fail...anyway my vote's already in a better place.

@mcmc, those are good questions, I'm glad you asked. It's not rude, but I'm not saying more.

@Chickenwarlord, get a signature or something that we can search for to see all of your posts, it helps and I'm sure DatSwan will say the same when he actually gets to the game.

@E, I'm pretty sure scum!UoS can say that they're happy someone claimed and simultaneously say that claims hurts town, especially when the claim that happened is the only good claim to do immediately.

PPE 2: If we kill Uncle now, UB will get Hated Godfather, which is pretty bad. Chicken already posted...that reminds me, @Chickenwarlord, get a picture, makes skimming much easier.

And I meant I played with shraeye...I knew that was going to get ambiguous, but I was sure you had memory  :P
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I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #180 on: February 24, 2019, 04:55:43 am »

I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What.  What what?  e has no reason.  How on earth can you like it?

Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...

E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.

Happy?

Are you scum?

No.

Also, only getting lynched if the thought process is scummy.  Which here I would say is fairly close to that.  Enough to build a fool-proof D1 lynch case (as all D1 lynch cases are)
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #181 on: February 24, 2019, 05:29:44 am »

Yíall are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.

But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.

IRC is a thing.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #182 on: February 24, 2019, 08:53:53 am »

Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

Relevant things would be:

1) Are you a native English speaker? Your use of "College" and "math" marks you out as very unlikely to be from the UK. I think you're probably a fluent non-native rather than an American studying abroad, but the distinction could be relevant if trying to read a lot into your posts later.

2) What timezone are you in? It's useful to know when deadlines fall in timezones where a player can or can't be present. In general, US-evening deadlines suck for Europe-based players. I'm a night own based in the UK, so I'm at forum time plus five, but offset a couple of hours west because I don't really like mornings and try to minimise my exposure :-P

Bonus point: I can barely play Dominion... I'm here solely for the Mafia :-)
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #183 on: February 24, 2019, 08:56:11 am »

Also, hi everyone! There are several names I don't recognise here, possibly because I haven't really read many of the games I haven't played in myself.

Just to get it out of the way early: my preferred pronoun is they/them. I get really frustrated at people going with "default he", though thankfully that is more rare here than it used to be, I think :-)
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #184 on: February 24, 2019, 08:59:15 am »

Is MiX a veteran from somewhere else?  Plays with a lot of confidence, which I auto-read as scummy when I'm not familiar with them.

Robz is a great D1 lynch, but also a useful player later in the game, so it's a toss up there.

Every mcmc post has felt like a good post, which means he's scum.

SA is being nice and hasn't yet analyzed anything, which means they're scum.

Basically everyone is scummy, no town reads for anyone.  That can't be right, right?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #185 on: February 24, 2019, 09:01:17 am »

As for the question of posting recommendations for how roles should be played, I absolutely think it's a useful pro-town thing to do. As someone who likes playing in a collaborative setting (which isn't generally possible for town, except as masons or something), it's good to hear others' ideas about how a role should be used. Not only that, but I think it's also useful to see what certain people are or aren't pushing for in terms of role optimization, because that can often help reads too.

If scums feel they have to contribute to discussion optimal play and will get called out for things that aren't good for town, then they have fewer opportunities to hide scummy play behind "personal right to decide", and are obliged to contribute town-positive ideas or to expose themselves as not working solely in town's interest.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #186 on: February 24, 2019, 09:07:09 am »

My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?

Do you? Answer honestly please.

1) Are you a native English speaker? Your use of "College" and "math" marks you out as very unlikely to be from the UK. I think you're probably a fluent non-native rather than an American studying abroad, but the distinction could be relevant if trying to read a lot into your posts later.

2) What timezone are you in? It's useful to know when deadlines fall in timezones where a player can or can't be present. In general, US-evening deadlines suck for Europe-based players. I'm a night own based in the UK, so I'm at forum time plus five, but offset a couple of hours west because I don't really like mornings and try to minimise my exposure :-P

No. +0, so forum+5. I hope you can determine where I am with this information...

Is MiX a veteran from somewhere else?  Plays with a lot of confidence, which I auto-read as scummy when I'm not familiar with them.

Sucks that I gave this information in <ongoing game>...I've played in Tabletop Simulator, which is essencially quick mafia: days are minutes and the game ends in an hour because maximum players are 10.

Basically everyone is scummy, no town reads for anyone.  That can't be right, right?

Worst case scenario there's 6 scum, which is a lot. We know there's at least 4, you mentioned 4 people, so that seems to work out, yes. But replace me with yourself, of course...
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I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #187 on: February 24, 2019, 09:07:22 am »

SA is being nice and hasn't yet analyzed anything, which means they're scum.

I had a posted VLA up till two hours ago. I'm literally only just coming into the game now.. politeness dictates I should say hi to the new players and do introductory stuff before jumping in with analyses. I haven't even configured the vote counter for this game yet.

Also, when do I manage to scrape together enough solid info to do any real analysis D1? I'm a D3+ player :-)
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #188 on: February 24, 2019, 09:22:20 am »

Just dropping in to say hi. Will hopefully catch up tomorrow.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #189 on: February 24, 2019, 09:30:11 am »

Yíall are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.

But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.

IRC is a thing.

Really? Still? It literally feels like that was a million years ago.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #190 on: February 24, 2019, 09:46:24 am »

By way of introduction. This is my 6th game...2 newbie games, two RMM, and one guillotine game, but before that Iíd never even heard of mafia.. Iím a she or they, Iím an hour behind forum time, I get up early and go to bed early, Iím generally WCD or Didds, and Iím prone to fluffy chatting and newb mistakes...Iím working on correcting one of those.

Iíve never played with MiX, Raerae, shraeye, chicken, or Jimmm. Eddieís first game was my first game so I was there with faust, UoS, and LL when he went from Uncle to Eddie.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #191 on: February 24, 2019, 09:54:44 am »

My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?

Do you? Answer honestly please.


I usually hate it. Thereís nothing worthwhile to analyze but you still need to find someone to lynch. The game gets much more interesting to me when thereís something real to analyze- by which I mean flips and eventually maybe claims, investigative results, that sort of thing.

I think itís important everyone contribute to day one because you need time to develop reads on people and things people say while awkwardly trying to find something to talk about can be useful later on when given context by concrete information.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #192 on: February 24, 2019, 10:18:16 am »

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.
Wait, what does this mean?
Easy, he's got precognition.  You can google that for more info if you want.

Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!
Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie
And we can add Joth to that pool too!

Speaking of chicken, where are they?
Maybe they're......chicken  8)

politeness dictates...
politeness schmoliteness

Iím prone to fluffy chatting and newb mistakes...Iím working on correcting one of those.
Ooh, which one?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #193 on: February 24, 2019, 10:20:01 am »

Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...

E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.

Happy?
Yeah, actually very happy.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #194 on: February 24, 2019, 10:20:51 am »

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
Nope, not at all

Is MiX a veteran from somewhere else?  Plays with a lot of confidence, which I auto-read as scummy when I'm not familiar with them.

Robz is a great D1 lynch, but also a useful player later in the game, so it's a toss up there.

Every mcmc post has felt like a good post, which means he's scum.

SA is being nice and hasn't yet analyzed anything, which means they're scum.

Basically everyone is scummy, no town reads for anyone.  That can't be right, right?
You know what's a bad idea?  Basing reads on oversimplifications of metas.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #195 on: February 24, 2019, 11:27:52 am »

Yíall are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.

But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.

IRC is a thing.

Really? Still? It literally feels like that was a million years ago.

I used it this year, and I also frequent a Discord server which uses Discord bots and IRC bots to sync with IRC because a lot of people prefer to use IRC instead of Discord.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #196 on: February 24, 2019, 01:31:17 pm »

I love Day 1. It's the best day.

And I know faust agrees with me, which is a big part of why I'm voting him. No, I did not miss the unvote.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #197 on: February 24, 2019, 01:32:06 pm »

The biggest reason for Day 1s to be useless is when a majority of the town is convinced Day 1s are useless and self-fulfilling-prophecy themselves into not getting any good reads out of it.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #198 on: February 24, 2019, 01:32:51 pm »

I'm on IRC right now.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #199 on: February 24, 2019, 02:41:28 pm »

Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #200 on: February 24, 2019, 02:45:39 pm »

Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?

You want to volunteer??
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #201 on: February 24, 2019, 02:51:10 pm »

Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?

That'll take a lot of votes...but you can sheep me (raerae) if you want, seems to be the most productive wagon right now.

Currently rereading a lot of past games to see everyone's town and scum meta, hopefully I can come up with something good.

PPE 1: Look who showed up!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #202 on: February 24, 2019, 02:53:54 pm »

We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #203 on: February 24, 2019, 02:57:19 pm »

We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.

No lynch means what UB becomes is random, because we'll probably have 2 deaths. This is the worst outcome.

...but last time I said something about the setup I was wrong. So maybe I miscalculated something? Can anyone confirm the above makes sense?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #204 on: February 24, 2019, 02:59:58 pm »

We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.

No lynch means what UB becomes is random, because we'll probably have 2 deaths. This is the worst outcome.

...but last time I said something about the setup I was wrong. So maybe I miscalculated something? Can anyone confirm the above makes sense?
What the UB becomes is random anyway. You mean the rest doesn't know what they become? I doubt that should influence our decision.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #205 on: February 24, 2019, 03:18:48 pm »

We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.

No lynch means what UB becomes is random, because we'll probably have 2 deaths. This is the worst outcome.

...but last time I said something about the setup I was wrong. So maybe I miscalculated something? Can anyone confirm the above makes sense?
What the UB becomes is random anyway. You mean the rest doesn't know what they become? I doubt that should influence our decision.

Going over the scenarios in my head, I think you're right... There's less information for town, but also for scum: if a cop and a non-cop flip, and he gets non-cop, scum might need to NK him in case he became cop, in which case he deflected a NK from the real cops... I thought I was better at solving setups than this, maybe it's just really good and unbreakable...

The only downside I see is that scum!UB might fakeclaim getting one role with UB while actually getting another. But they would lie about their targets and results anyway, right?

Anyway, assuming the worst, we have 6 scum in 18 players: those are LyLo odds, which are...pretty good, in my opinion. Besides, lynching town (which is the downside of lynching D1) means scum need to target themselves, so overall we would get more dead scum and same dead town, which is obviously a positive. Unless scum want to play endgame multiball...what has happened in other multiball games, do scum try to kill the other team or do they just target town? I would assume they would target each other, thus forcing balance, prisoner's dilemma is strong here.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #206 on: February 24, 2019, 03:47:21 pm »

The traditional argument against no lynch is that the scum still get a kill which is guaranteed to be town, but town is denied a kill which has a chance of being scum. With two teams, though, there is still a chance each nk will be scum from the opposite faction.

Iím not a good math person, but Iím going to do some math anyway just cause Iím bored. Basically we have either 4 or 6 scum. So if the lynch were completely random it would be either a 22% or a 33% chance of hitting scum. Not great odds, but not lynching is a 0% chance.

If we no lynch and we have a Maquis and Mirror Universe team, then each scum team has a 20% chance of hitting the other team (barring roleblocker/doctor shenanigans.) If we have a changeling, the changeling has a 17.6% chance of hitting scum, and the scum team has a 5.88% chance of hitting the changeling (which wonít kill them anyway cause bulletproof.)

If we end up lynching town and we have Maquis and Mirror Universe teams, then each scum team has a 21.4% chance of hitting the other scum team (again barring a lucky protective role.) If we have a changeling, then the changeling has a 18.75% chance to hit scum and the scum team has a 7% chance to uselessly hit the changeling.

If we lynch scum and have two scum teams, the team we hit has a 20% chance of hitting scum and the team we didnít hit only has a 14.28% chance of hitting scum. If we lynch scum and have a changeling the changeling has a 12.5% chance to hit scum. If we lynch the changeling we hit the jackpot and of course the scum team has 0% of hitting scum (but thatís more than balanced out by the fact that the changeling has a 0% chance of hitting town.

Not sure what I was trying to prove here, but I did all this math and now I donít want to delete it. Maybe Space or somebody can take this ball and run with it and come up with some more immediately useful numbers.

So long story short, much higher chance thereís some scum dead on day 2 if we lynch than if we donít. Killing scum is killing scum and killing town slightly increases the odds that scum kills scum. Obviously the worst case scenario is worse if we lynch (three dead town as opposed to 2.) Thatís the trade off. I lean towards lynching.

PPE: 1
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #207 on: February 24, 2019, 03:48:29 pm »

Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?

I am up for it.

Let's lynch faust.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #208 on: February 24, 2019, 03:49:00 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #209 on: February 24, 2019, 04:05:36 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

Time to mass claim.



Then we no lynch.

Come on everybody, letís do this.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #210 on: February 24, 2019, 04:10:40 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

Time to mass claim.



Then we no lynch.

Come on everybody, letís do this.

Please use your ICness this day to do productive things instead of jokes please.

Vote places, question people, I don't know; go all out, you're not dying today, that's for sure.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #211 on: February 24, 2019, 04:15:14 pm »

Peopleís trust in me is unaffected by my claim, I am hardly an IC, and the primary reason for me not being lynched today is to not hurt another player, who might even be scum for all we know.

Itís kind of flimsy, honestly.

And I have a vote in a place. I like it where itís at.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #212 on: February 24, 2019, 04:16:31 pm »

vote: MiX

I happen to like jokes.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #213 on: February 24, 2019, 04:27:46 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

Time to mass claim.



Then we no lynch.

Come on everybody, letís do this.

Please use your ICness this day to do productive things instead of jokes please.

Vote places, question people, I don't know; go all out, you're not dying today, that's for sure.

Disagree, never stop joking. Sprinkle it with serious. Or do whatever you want that makes the game fun for you.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #214 on: February 24, 2019, 04:34:41 pm »

We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.
I'm diggity down.

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
Naaaah; it'll be fun!!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #215 on: February 24, 2019, 04:37:32 pm »

vote: shraeye

Not liking jokes isn't actually scummy, but I think being down for a no lynch even after all my glorious math is.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #216 on: February 24, 2019, 04:40:43 pm »

We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.

I'm diggity down.

Do I need to present mine and Glooble's reasons for why no lynch is bad? Or do you just like to play contrarian?

Can someone answer this? I'm afraid it was buried in my other post:

what has happened in other multiball games, do scum try to kill the other team or do they just target town? I would assume they would target each other, thus forcing balance, prisoner's dilemma is strong here.

PPE 1: That's just shraeye being shraeye, really...I'm pretty sure that's coherent with the game I've reread, if my memory serves me right.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #217 on: February 24, 2019, 04:44:23 pm »

Nah, I know from trying many years ago that if you look at the probabilities, it says lynching is slightly better.  But that's assuming everything under the sun is completely random and not affected at all by reads, scum tactics, Bayesian conditioning on all the other nuances that we couldn't possibly calculate.

It's wrong to think it's a "well 53% utility is over 50% so that's obviously the only play" when all the probabilities are done under math-conditions instead of real-world conditions.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #218 on: February 24, 2019, 05:08:50 pm »


Can someone answer this? I'm afraid it was buried in my other post:

what has happened in other multiball games, do scum try to kill the other team or do they just target town? I would assume they would target each other, thus forcing balance, prisoner's dilemma is strong here.


Well, the only multiball game I've played (as far as I remember) was Deep Space Nine mafia version one, which ended with one town and one player from each scum team. The surviving townplayer basically was playing kingmaker.

I was scum in that game. IIRC we tried to get the other scum team lynched, because it gave us towncred and made it look like we were scumhunting (because we were.) For nightkills, we killed people who we thought might be the other scum team, but also people who we thought might be powerful town. Of course that was closed set up. Now that all potential roles are known, I think if I were scum I would want to hit the other scum team. Most of the town PRs just aren't that threatening compared to the possibility of a nightkill.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #219 on: February 24, 2019, 05:29:17 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #220 on: February 24, 2019, 05:39:30 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?

If you have some insight on things we can talk about that are pro-town, by all means, state them. I've done my share of setup reading and theorizing, and so far my theories have been proven wrong by faust, so I don't have high hopes for the rest.

I also think the only thing that needed to be discussed D1 was the Hated part, and we got that out of the way...ah, and the UB, also taken care of.

Everything else will make people softclaim (slip) non-X, where X is whatever role we're talking about, like what happened to shraeye.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #221 on: February 24, 2019, 05:59:32 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?

What weird thing to you want to talk about, Snow?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #222 on: February 24, 2019, 06:21:30 pm »

Partly I was just finding it weird that people were bringing up the old No Lynch D1 discussion again and acting like they needed to find some theory stuff to talk about, but then weren't talking about anything interesting.

Like "let's make sure to discuss the setup" "Okay, what about it?" "Ummmm... should we No Lynch?"

It's weird. And don't take this the wrong way, MiX, but it's weird for you to talk about your calculations or whatever and then be speculating on the UB being random, like we'd want a cop to claim just so a UB could inherit it or something? I don't think that's what you're suggesting, but it just seems like you haven't put that much thought into this but are kind of acting like you have. And it is actually possible to have a game with no theory discussion, although probably not with this playerlist I guess.

(Also shraeye is wrong about how bad no lynching is, but that's also not worth getting into, it's just a SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET issue and I'm trying not to have that fight.)
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #223 on: February 24, 2019, 06:45:37 pm »

Partly I was just finding it weird that people were bringing up the old No Lynch D1 discussion again and acting like they needed to find some theory stuff to talk about, but then weren't talking about anything interesting.

Like "let's make sure to discuss the setup" "Okay, what about it?" "Ummmm... should we No Lynch?"

It's weird. And don't take this the wrong way, MiX, but it's weird for you to talk about your calculations or whatever and then be speculating on the UB being random, like we'd want a cop to claim just so a UB could inherit it or something? I don't think that's what you're suggesting, but it just seems like you haven't put that much thought into this but are kind of acting like you have. And it is actually possible to have a game with no theory discussion, although probably not with this playerlist I guess.

(Also shraeye is wrong about how bad no lynching is, but that's also not worth getting into, it's just a SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET issue and I'm trying not to have that fight.)

I like your attempt to stimulate conversation: townpoints!

You're the one that's saying that we should discuss the setup, right? Did I miss anyone else say it?

What I wanted was for there to be a lynch D1, so UB's role would be public. That would also mean we could lynch free of claims, since even if someone claims to be a cop we can just lynch him and whoever's the UB becomes cop, so we won't lose any PR day 1. Also I meant "random" as in "we wouldn't know which PR UB became".

No theory discussion is actively bad for town, but we don't need to do everything D1. In fact I think it's detrimental to talk more about it now, because of the slips town will inevitebly make.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #224 on: February 24, 2019, 07:01:12 pm »

Other things worth saying at this time:

  • Cops should aim for their scumreads rather than townreads, innocents are at best half useless and possibly completely useless
  • Cops should only claim results on a guilty or if they are about to be lynched
  • Crumbing roles is terrible here and should be avoided
  • Crumbing innocent results should be kept pretty subtle, it's a much bigger deal to out yourself than for us to miss the crumb
  • Sisko should target a scumread every night, hitting an NK well worth the risk of blocking town
  • Sisko shouldn't claim if there are fewer NKs than expected, too many things can do that, but he should heavily suspect his previous night's target
  • Bashir, Garak, Yates, and Winn should really be saving their shots for as late in the game as they think they can manage
  • Garak really needs to crumb his bus driver targets if he uses that one (I would)

I cut a few things I didn't want to say, but everyone should best think about how to use their role to help town (especially scum)

GARAK
Biggest thing is probably that last one, Garak could die on the night he Bus Drives someone, and that casts a lot of suspicion on other PR usage, so in the event of Garak's death, we need to be able to look back and figure out who the targets were, to the point that it's probably worth figuring out who to target before the night starts. Best use of Bus Driver is to attempt to redirect an NK back onto scum, but scum want to kill other scum, so it's a bit complicated here. I'd propose Garak target his top 2 scumreads the night he Bus Drives: if both are scum and one is NKed it's a wash, but if 1 is scum and 1 is town, it potentially saves the town and takes out a scum, and that's more likely than the scum being shot and being redirected onto town, which is obviously possible but the saving town is significantly more likely than random.

Given all that, I think Garak should just make sure to always have a pretty unambiguous top 2 scumreads going into the night and redirect one into the other if he decides to use his shot that night. I think he should hold off on shooting (and not take the Lightning Rod power) as long as possible, but this would significantly limit how many PRs we have to worry about having been redirected and how much WIFOM scum can throw around about it.

To that end, I'm going to make a point of having a very clear top 2 scumreads every night and I think everyone else should as well. And since it's 1-shot, scum don't get any POE out of the hypoclaims here like they would with an ungated power.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #225 on: February 24, 2019, 07:03:48 pm »

I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #226 on: February 24, 2019, 07:07:01 pm »

Does the Universal Backup inherit access to the Ferengi neighborhood if a Ferengi is the first to die?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #227 on: February 24, 2019, 07:08:32 pm »

I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.

I refuse to play games I donít know the rules to.

I also donít know if I agree with the top two scumreads thing.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #228 on: February 24, 2019, 07:09:09 pm »

Wow. Okay that's a lot of info. UoS won't die today.

Sadly I'll need to go to bed now, so I'll just say this: Sisko should be treated as a cop and act like a cop. Does that make sense? Because it does to me.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #229 on: February 24, 2019, 07:09:19 pm »

What's the downside?

Worried you won't have any scumreads?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #230 on: February 24, 2019, 07:12:44 pm »

What's the downside?

Worried you won't have any scumreads?

That argument makes no sense, everyone will have scum reads, even scum. Nah, itís for something else.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #231 on: February 24, 2019, 07:17:46 pm »

I mean, you've already claimed so you're the safest person to talk about this with.

Everyone is going to have scumreads anyway, and assuming we aren't lying about scumreads (and town shouldn't be) it's really just about the optimal usage of the role anyway, minus whatever you lose based on the flip of the day's lynch, but that can be worked in as a conditional anyway.

i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

If Garak flips scum, obviously we don't trust that he stuck to this plan and so we have a whole bunch more WIFOM, but then we could never have done anything about that anyway.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #232 on: February 24, 2019, 07:20:07 pm »

No. +0, so forum+5. I hope you can determine where I am with this information...

Your profile info already says Portugal, so I'll go with that!
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Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #233 on: February 24, 2019, 07:32:57 pm »

I mean, you've already claimed so you're the safest person to talk about this with.

Everyone is going to have scumreads anyway, and assuming we aren't lying about scumreads (and town shouldn't be) it's really just about the optimal usage of the role anyway, minus whatever you lose based on the flip of the day's lynch, but that can be worked in as a conditional anyway.

i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

If Garak flips scum, obviously we don't trust that he stuck to this plan and so we have a whole bunch more WIFOM, but then we could never have done anything about that anyway.

You're posting interesting ideas, but I'm not sure I agree 100%. The more you start allowing your statements to be conditioned on flips, the more info town has to give about the precise truthful state of their suspicion on everyone. While I don't see any big downside to picking two top scumreads, if you go further than that, you risk asking town to give scum too much information.

Also, the more complicated a scheme like this gets, the more likely you are to find uncooperative players.. and then there are arguments when people refuse to cooperate with what seem like a foolproof schemes to those who have a better grip on what's being asked. Then those people start looking scummy, when in fact they're possibly just overconfident in their own way of doing things.. I feel like I've been down that path a bunch of times before when trying to get people to agree with schemes that were optimised to get the most out of a claims process or something.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #234 on: February 24, 2019, 07:38:55 pm »

That 2nd point is something I've struggled with all my life, going back to like 4th grade group projects.

If you can't explain a good idea in 2 sentences some people stop paying attention and decide not to cooperate. Drives me crazy.

But yeah, I think the 2 is fine really even if it's not conditional. But I wasn't really suggesting we should all do the conditional stuff every day anyway, I was more pointing out that it could be used when it comes up.

And Cops absolutely need not investigate the last person they said was their top scumread, but at some point over a day they are sure to have had a scumread, which is my whole point.

It's a claiming method that folds into normal play.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #235 on: February 24, 2019, 07:41:24 pm »

UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #236 on: February 24, 2019, 07:45:57 pm »

I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.

Okay I just reread everything faust has said this game and I can't see where you are coming from. I see the town logic in pushing Gul Dukat to claim. I even see the town logic in wanting to lynch him day one, forgetting about the UB, being reminded of the UB, then unvoting. I don't agree with it all, but none of it jumps out as scummy.

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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #237 on: February 24, 2019, 07:47:47 pm »

UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?

Slight town in one light, slight scum in another.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #238 on: February 24, 2019, 07:48:58 pm »

UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?

Slight town in one light, slight scum in another.

I probably should mention that the town light is the light I am using.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #239 on: February 24, 2019, 07:55:37 pm »

Thanks for playing my game
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #240 on: February 24, 2019, 09:20:33 pm »

Does the Universal Backup inherit access to the Ferengi neighborhood if a Ferengi is the first to die?

Yes. The setup role is done such that the information the Ferengi have holds true even if the UB joins them.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #241 on: February 24, 2019, 09:49:38 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Probably because I'm here and raerae is here and both of us think nolynch is viable.  I remain unconvinced by math (google the McNamara fallacy) or by people simply saying "We are never doing this. It's the worst." (google 'proof by assertion')

Embrace the possibility of a Day1 no lynch, it's more fun than you think.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #242 on: February 24, 2019, 09:54:57 pm »

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Probably because I'm here and raerae is here and both of us think nolynch is viable.  I remain unconvinced by math (google the McNamara fallacy) or by people simply saying "We are never doing this. It's the worst." (google 'proof by assertion')

Embrace the possibility of a Day1 no lynch, it's more fun than you think.

Have you ever successfully convinced anybody of a No Lynch?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #243 on: February 24, 2019, 09:59:15 pm »

Nope; but I'll never stop trying.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #244 on: February 24, 2019, 10:00:15 pm »

Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Your optimism is almost as endearing as it is infuriating.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #245 on: February 25, 2019, 02:28:07 am »

I tried to hold back and not engage in this, but Someone Is Wrong On The Internet Syndrome is too strong.

  • Cops should aim for their scumreads rather than townreads, innocents are at best half useless and possibly completely useless
  • Cops should only claim results on a guilty or if they are about to be lynched
This is some really obvious stuff that applies to Cops in every game, but ok, we have a newbie I suppose.

The some points that are largely fine. But this:

GARAK
is plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum). The whole "target 2 scummy players" thing gives scum way too much leeway to use it in an anti-town manner. And if everyone understands that this may happen with claimed Cops, then that means think twice about targeting them.

Question that I have not seen answered yet:

How does the SK Strongman interact with Bus Driving?

It would be nice if all role clarifications would be added to the setup post for easy reference.
[/list]
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #246 on: February 25, 2019, 02:34:25 am »

Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Even if No Lynch was a viable option, you shouldn't try to convince people of it, that'll destroy D1 if no one wants a lynch. Since it's not even a good option, it's anti-town to propose that idea. Come back near deadline, then it will be useful.

The UB-Ferengi information is very interesting...

I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

PPE 1: There we go, I say something, faust beats me to it.
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LaLight

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #247 on: February 25, 2019, 02:57:07 am »

hey guys, was moving to another apartment and now I finally am here

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #248 on: February 25, 2019, 02:57:16 am »

what's going on
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #249 on: February 25, 2019, 06:02:28 am »

what's going on

I have no idea yet. We could just start our own conversation.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #250 on: February 25, 2019, 06:12:25 am »

i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

Is that just a random example or do you actually believe that?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #251 on: February 25, 2019, 06:13:27 am »

what's going on

Robz is playing up his meta in thread, so likely town
UoS is trying real hard to be helpful, so likely town
There are a bunch of people I haven't played with before, at least one is likely scum, probably MiX, but let's lynch them another time
I created a scum read on faust for fun

Oh and someone claimed something that means absolutely nothing.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #252 on: February 25, 2019, 06:35:09 am »

The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #253 on: February 25, 2019, 06:52:32 am »

Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.

Can anyone tell me what scum!raerae does? I'm finishing up my metaread on e and I wanted to go to faust next...
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I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #254 on: February 25, 2019, 06:54:24 am »

I'm finishing up my metaread on e and I wanted to go to faust next...

That sounds scary. Are you reading recent games or old ones?
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #255 on: February 25, 2019, 06:58:18 am »

The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.
Hi! Obligatory round of newbie stuff:

Make sure you make a post in the forums somewhere outside the forum games section, this will prevent having to do a captcha each time you post.
Would be nice for finding your posts if you added you ShuffleIT Username or a distinguishable signature to your profile.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #256 on: February 25, 2019, 06:58:41 am »

what's going on

Robz is playing up his meta in thread, so likely town
UoS is trying real hard to be helpful, so likely town
There are a bunch of people I haven't played with before, at least one is likely scum, probably MiX, but let's lynch them another time
I created a scum read on faust for fun

Oh and someone claimed something that means absolutely nothing.

yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmm

let me reread the whole thread in a couple of days. sorry, I am swamped in things now. I will try to react to recent posts, but old ones will have to wait. Also, can anyone wrap up what happened in the original game if they haven't already? I slightly remember reading it, it was amusing, but I don't remember anything at all
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #257 on: February 25, 2019, 08:38:37 am »


    How does the SK Strongman interact with Bus Driving?

    It would be nice if all role clarifications would be added to the setup post for easy reference.
    [/list]

    Thatís a good idea. Iíll add those later on this morning.

    The SKís kill can be bus-driven or redirected, and it is trumped by Kasidyís commute. It gets through Bashirís doctor shot and scum!Kiraís bulletproof.
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    Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
    « Reply #258 on: February 25, 2019, 09:16:55 am »

    Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.

    Can anyone tell me what scum!raerae does? I'm finishing up my metaread on e and I wanted to go to faust next...

    My friend, I last played three years ago or more, even I don't remember my own meta, if you insist on relying on that you're best off using Philosopher's as your meta-test for me.
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    MiX

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    Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
    « Reply #259 on: February 25, 2019, 09:22:31 am »

    Can't use ongoing game (wo)man...especially for your scum meta.

    I'll need to get home to consolidate my thoughts on e, but I just see towny things, even if minor.

    Vote: faust, temp vote while I read him / finish my read on e

    That reminds me, @e, I'm using recent games but had to go deeper for scum!e, just need to read 1 older town!e game to see if the changes are alignment-indicative or not.
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    I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.

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    Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
    « Reply #260 on: February 25, 2019, 09:51:50 am »

    The opening setup post has been updated with a bunch of role clarifications. Never run an open setup, friends. It's entirely too much work. Vote count this afternoon.
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    Glooble

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    Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
    « Reply #261 on: February 25, 2019, 10:02:26 am »

    The opening setup post has been updated with a bunch of role clarifications. Never run an open setup, friends. It's entirely too much work. Vote count this afternoon.

    One more question- what happens if Bareil is scum and inherits the copping ability for his own faction?
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    I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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    Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
    « Reply #262 on: February 25, 2019, 10:17:02 am »

    vote: 2.7 he doesnít feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasnít come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
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    Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
    « Reply #263 on: February 25, 2019, 10:56:52 am »

    hey guys, was moving to another apartment and now I finally am here

    Thatís a hassle, but potentially awesome. Moving is hard, so I hope you like the new space. And that the cats like it. Because priorities.
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    Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
    « Reply #264 on: February 25, 2019, 11:01:56 am »

    The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.

    It seems unlikely that weíll reach a consensus, yet it usually happens. Kind of wild! We still have lots of time to interact and pay attention so even if it seems impossible that half of us would agree to lynch one person now, we will likely get there by the deadline. Partly because most of us (based on my limited knowledge of a handful of games) will want a lynch, so as it gets closer to the deadline there will be some converging. And how we converge (or not) helps us have more to analyze in D2.
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    It's probably not townie mctownerson WCD.

    faust

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    Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
    « Reply #265 on: February 25, 2019, 11:03:57 am »

    Vote: Robz
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    Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

    jotheonah

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