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Author Topic: Monastery + Sewers  (Read 408 times)

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ednever

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Monastery + Sewers
« on: January 21, 2019, 04:55:15 pm »
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Is there a reason I can't Sewers after using Monastery?

I don't see why not from the card text. Is it an error on DominionOnline or am I missing something?

Game number: Game #22660523

Thanks,

Ed
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ednever

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2019, 04:57:10 pm »
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Hm.

On turn 12 it let me do it for the first time. I think what I did differently was trashing a card in my had rather than in play. But Sewers doesn't say anything about "in play"

Still not sure what's going on....

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ednever

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2019, 04:58:15 pm »
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On turn 14 it seemed to work fine.... (And I trashed in play)
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Rabid

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2019, 05:52:16 pm »
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Loaded game seems fine to me.
I don't think you ever had cards in hand to trash?
Do you have a turn number for where you think it didn't work correctly?
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Ingix

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2019, 04:51:50 am »
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Also looked at the game, and couldn't see a problem.

Turn 9 you opted to trash the Copper in hand for Monastery, and then the game on replay gave me (and I assume you) the option to trash the Jester in hand via Sewers (which I assume you declined). If you had used Monastery to trash a Copper from play instead, the game would have offered you to trash the Copper in hand via Sewers, which I assume you would have taken.

In the other cases, as Rabid said, you simply didn't have cards in hand.
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crj

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2019, 11:09:23 am »
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Hmm. Now I'm thinking it would have been kinda interesting if Sewers had said you may trash another card from the same place, rather than from hand.  Not sure if, overall, that would have been more or less powerful/flexible.
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ipofanes

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2019, 11:51:36 am »
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"Place" would be a new concept in Dominion rules, so I am getting my Occam's razor ready. Meanwhile, I prefer to trash a card from hand rather than from a Kingdom pile after Lurker.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2019, 11:58:59 am »
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"Place" would be a new concept in Dominion rules, so I am getting my Occam's razor ready. Meanwhile, I prefer to trash a card from hand rather than from a Kingdom pile after Lurker.

Yeah, it has issues with things like Lookout. Is the "Place" the top of your deck? Or is it the 3 revealed cards?
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crj

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2019, 12:19:52 pm »
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I used the "place" terminology because it gets used for quite a lot of effects in Evolution. I guess if trying to formalise it for Dominion, the phrasing would be "whenever instructed to trash some number of cards, you may trash one more". So yes, with Lookout it would be trashing a second of the revealed cards.
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ipofanes

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2019, 03:20:58 am »
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Then you would break the instructions of Lookout, which explicitly reads "Discard one of them. Put the other one on top of your deck." But this would be in line with "do as much as you can" and the triggered effect taking precedence. How about Watchtower effect? Would I be allowed to trash Mountebanks Copper with Sewers and Curse with Watchtower instead of both with Watchtower? Does it matter? (Edge case challenge.) How would same-place-Sewer react to Swindler, Giant, and Knight attacks?

I tend to think that Sewers as is is better and less confusing, even if the current version seems to have confused you..
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crj

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Re: Monastery + Sewers
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2019, 10:50:27 am »
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even if the current version seems to have confused you
Let the record show I'm not the person who was confused by current Sewers. (-8 I was just thinking out loud about an interesting alternative.
Quote
Would I be allowed to trash Mountebanks Copper with Sewers and Curse with Watchtower instead of both with Watchtower? Does it matter? (Edge case challenge.)
For all it matters, the rules clarifications on the wiki state "A player hit by Mountebank gains the Curse first, and then the Copper.", so they're gained one at a time, so no.

Quote
How would same-place-Sewer react to Swindler, Giant, and Knight attacks?
My preferred option, for maximum fun, is that basically works liike Inflation in Fluxx: something that tells you to trash 1 card you can take as meaning 2, trash 2 can mean trash 3, and so on. It's modifying existing card text in the same way Lantern does, rather than being a tacked-on extra. Things which apply to the trashed card apply severally to each.

So...

Swindler: You may instead choose to trash the top two cards of your deck (blind, and both at once). If you do, your attacker chooses two cards for you to gain (then you gain them in an order you choose).
Giant: There's only one revealed-from-top-of-deck card, so you can't choose to trash a second.
Knights: If both revealed cards cost $3 to $6, you may trash both. "If a Knight is trashed by this" is triggered by either or both trashed cards being a Knight.

(This should probably already have moved to the variants forum. Sorry. I'll migrate there if there are any more questions.)
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