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Author Topic: Shuffling mechanic standards?  (Read 255 times)

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DooWopDJ

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Shuffling mechanic standards?
« on: January 16, 2019, 10:10:44 pm »
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I am discovering that the mechanics of shuffling can drastically change the 'luck' of the game.  Has this topic been discussed in the mechanics that are used to 'randomize' your deck while shuffling.

Example.  Is that a standard 'interlaced' shuffle does not really 'shuffle' the cards it just barely adds one card in between the previously 5 deck standard sets (sorry I am not a card mechanic person, so I do not know how to describe the 'interlaced' shuffle verse the 'deck cut' type of shuffle).

If I had 3 gold together (or a Tournament/Prize combo) in my discard pile, if I shuffle once, these cards seem to rarely get shuffled apart more than by 5 cards, so on a cycle through my pile I will usually get those same 3 golds or Tournament/Prize combo again.  But if I 'throughly' shuffle they most certainly get separated.  So players can easily take advantage of knowing how to shuffle.  I have tried to resolve this by allowing one of the other players to shuffle (if it is a concern).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 10:15:35 pm by DooWopDJ »
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Donald X.

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Re: Shuffling mechanic standards?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 10:46:46 pm »
+6

I recommend shuffling well.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Shuffling mechanic standards?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 11:09:15 pm »
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What I always do is "cut" the deck (take off some top cards and put them on the bottom) after each interlace. I don't know for sure that this helps, but it seems like it does.
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Jeebus

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Re: Shuffling mechanic standards?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 12:53:08 pm »
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With sleeves it's actually very easy to shuffle well without using a lot of time (compared to other kinds of casual shuffling). Weaving the two halves of the deck into each other a few times plus a little but of overhand shuffling in between does the trick. The problem is making other people shuffle this way. In Mexico, where I'm living now, most people don't know how to shuffle at all. They just kind of weakly "mix" the cards in their hands.

crj

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Re: Shuffling mechanic standards?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 01:17:21 pm »
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I have four modes of shuffling:
  • 1-5 cards: mix them up a bit then ask a neighbour to do likewise because I literally can't shuffle so few cards without knowing what's where.
  • 6-20 cards: multiple overhand weaves
  • 21-75 cards: riffle shuffles
  • 76+ cards: riffle shuffle sub-decks, regularly interchanging halves between them
Fortunately, that last one is for other games and very seldom comes up in Dominion. (-8

I'm aware of the research which suggests seven riffles for a 52-card deck, and without evidence extrapolate this to riffling approximately an n-card deck approximately sqrt(n) times. When I've had to split the deck up into sub-decks, I make sure each card has been riffled sqrt(n) times.

I tend to cut about 1/4 of the cards between shuffles, just to mix things up a little more quickly.

In practice, when people are playing slowly, I tend to continue shuffling until the player to my right enters their buy phase.

I'm satisfied this is all completely fair, unless using cards from the first printing of Adventures, at which point I subliminally control them to the top of my deck. )-8

(When playing Bridge, I use a dealing sheet - multiple lines, each line consisting of the digits 1 to 4 appearing 13 times each in a properly random order. You roughly shuffle the cards so people don't know what's where, deal according to the topmost unused line, then cross that line out. This is quicker, easier and better than normal shuffling.)
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Chris is me

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Re: Shuffling mechanic standards?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 01:33:36 pm »
+1

Look at the variety of articles MTG players have written on the subject, it may be illuminating.

I try to do 5-7 "mash" shuffles.
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Sheogorath

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Re: Shuffling mechanic standards?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 03:33:08 pm »
+3

Here is the math on the different ways to get random shuffles:

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