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Author Topic: Innovation and Haggler  (Read 150 times)

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majiponi

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Innovation and Haggler
« on: January 11, 2019, 09:52:50 pm »
+1

I bought Innovation.

While a Haggler is in play, I bought Province. I gained and set aside another Haggler. I played it.

Do I gain another card cheaper than Province?
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Jeebus

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2019, 10:15:23 pm »
0

I actually just discovered this myself. I started this thread to address this question: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19414.0

I asked about Groundskeeper, which triggers on when-buy, but if the answer is "yes" to that question, then it's also "yes" to gaining Haggler, Goons or Merchant Guild from buying another card. I already tried it with Haggler (your exact example) online, and it works.

You could for instance play Charm, buy a Gold, gain a Goons and play it, and get 1 VP token for buying Gold.

The more I think about, the more I think this is correct.

Donald X.

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 03:27:18 am »
+1

I bought Innovation.

While a Haggler is in play, I bought Province. I gained and set aside another Haggler. I played it.

Do I gain another card cheaper than Province?
Yes.

When you're in the window for resolving effects that trigger on a particular thing, new things that show up also work. This goes back to Secret Chamber / Moat - I play Militia, you use Secret Chamber, you get Moat from it, you use the Moat on the Militia.
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SSLY

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 10:05:08 am »
+1

Among those exotic things, my concern is Charm. It can set up a when-buy during a buy window, but “the next time when you buy a card”, I assume, doesn’t mean the window, can’t apply to (retrospectively I dare to say), the next time is the next window. The situation is: You buy Duchy with a Haggler, gain Black Market, play it by Innovation, so that you can play a Charm to set up the ability—and yet you can’t gain a card costing 5 other than Duchy. Right?
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Ingix

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 10:43:09 am »
0

Good question. The "next time" formulation makes it tricky, but I'd say that if you actually buy a card from the Black Market it would apply to that buy. If you don't, it would be applicable to the Duchy buy, so allowing you to gain another $5 cost card.
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crj

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2019, 11:34:35 am »
0

I assume it's just a slightly colloquial way of saying "once only: when you buy a card..." and applies immediately if it can.
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Jeebus

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2019, 06:48:15 pm »
+2

I would think "the next time you buy" can't be the when-buy window you're already in. Compare to any card saying "next turn". You are in a turn already when you resolve the card, but that turn is not your "next" one. The meaning is "the next turn after the one you're already in".

Edit: A practical example: I play an Archive at the start of my turn (via Piazza). I take a card "now and at the start of my next two turns." Do I take two cards now? I don't think so.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 06:52:31 pm by Jeebus »
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crj

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2019, 06:55:35 pm »
0

I play an Archive at the start of my turn (via Piazza).
Interesting. I'd quite like to see an official ruling on that one, too!
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Donald X.

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2019, 06:58:00 pm »
+1

Among those exotic things, my concern is Charm. It can set up a when-buy during a buy window, but “the next time when you buy a card”, I assume, doesn’t mean the window, can’t apply to (retrospectively I dare to say), the next time is the next window. The situation is: You buy Duchy with a Haggler, gain Black Market, play it by Innovation, so that you can play a Charm to set up the ability—and yet you can’t gain a card costing 5 other than Duchy. Right?
"The next time you buy a card this turn" applies to the next card you buy, not any card you previously bought, or any card you're currently resolving when-buy stuff for.
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Donald X.

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Re: Innovation and Haggler
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2019, 06:58:41 pm »
+1

I play an Archive at the start of my turn (via Piazza).
Interesting. I'd quite like to see an official ruling on that one, too!
The next two turns are officially the next two turns. They are not the current turn.
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