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[UmbrageOfSnow]

                                                            Vote Count 1.0


Not Voting (13): Debatepro, faust, Dylan32, silverspawn, Uncleeurope, DatSwan, MiX, LaLight, Joseph2302, arishipshape, shraeye, EFHW, raerae

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm

Thread Unlocked.

[arishipshape]

Wait, what happened? I didn't vote! The day wasn't supposed to start until 5 and somebody is already lynched? I'm guessing they quit or something?

Anyways, this is my first post of my first game. All other games you may have thought I played were played be me in the past. Forget them, I am an entirely new person. Now, if I have things correctly, except for the innocent child who just got lynched, we have no information as of yet. Therefore, at least in live mafia games, we lynch someone immediately and at random, no? Of course, random is only subjective, and any experience had outside of this forum completely irrelevant. However, I regard it as the virtuous thing to do to ensure the highest chance for the not scum to win. Therefore, I shall conform to the tried and true methods utilized in other mafia games. Random bandwagon here we go!

Vote: MiX

If a random bandwagon is not the optimal strategy for town on day 1, explain to me why and I shall gladly retract my vote.

[silverspawn]

Google's AI just schooled a bunch of human pros in sc2. How long will it take before it can play mafia? What does it mean for AI to beat humans at mafia? What does it mean for AI not to beat humans at mafia? Is it scummy or towny to open a game with meaningless philosophy? Will I get another day 1 wagon this game? Why are there so many questions? Why is only one of them easy?

[silverspawn]

If a random bandwagon is not the optimal strategy for town on day 1, explain to me why and I shall gladly retract my vote.

I regard it as the virtuous thing to do to ensure the highest chance for the not scum to win.

I am not saying that it is not the optimal strategy, or am I? Who are the not scum and why do you want them to win?

Will I vote: MiX and join your wagon?

[arishipshape]

Google's AI just schooled a bunch of human pros in sc2. How long will it take before it can play mafia? What does it mean for AI to beat humans at mafia? What does it mean for AI not to beat humans at mafia? Is it scummy or towny to open a game with meaningless philosophy? Will I get another day 1 wagon this game? Why are there so many questions? Why is only one of them easy?

To answer your questions, computers will never play mafia as well as humans, AI can only "win" in the sense that it can take the correct copy-pasted messages at given times to fool humans, who will eventually catch on, AI don't beat humans because mafia is to subjective for computers to fully understand, it is neither scummy nor towny to open with philosophy, although I would consider meaningless philosophy suspicious, I have no idea whether you will get a day 1 wagon, there are so many questions because it is in the nature of the universe to be questionable and subtle, and none of them were easy, defeating your loaded question at the end.
*faints from hyperventilation*

[arishipshape]

If a random bandwagon is not the optimal strategy for town on day 1, explain to me why and I shall gladly retract my vote.

I regard it as the virtuous thing to do to ensure the highest chance for the not scum to win.

I am not saying that it is not the optimal strategy, or am I? Who are the not scum and why do you want them to win?

Will I vote: MiX and join your wagon?

The not scum are the people not aligned with the mafia, werewolfs, witches, serial killers, rival mafias, or any other third, fourth, seventh, or eighth parties. Im kinda fond of the fifth and sixth, but I will play against them nonetheless. I want the not scum to win because they are, by definition, morally in the right and "the good guys". Good being subjective, of course.

[silverspawn]

Answering questions is super scummy. vote: arishipshape

[arishipshape]

Answering questions is super scummy. vote: arishipshape

Would you prefer questions remain unanswered? Would you prefer not even an attempt be made at cracking the universes hard shell of obfuscation? Would you prefer I lurk, and provide no information for the town? At this point, I would vote for you, but every time I have crossed someone day 1 I ended up dead. My vote remains the same.

[MiX]

arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.

Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.

I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.

In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.

[MiX]

I must say, Bravo, Umbrage, your flavour made me think there was an actual IC, sure hope everyone understood what actually happened, took me a while.

every time I have crossed someone day 1 I ended up dead.

Partial quote (those were bad, right?), but that means you want me to go after you...well, plan failed, since I already gave you a D1 pass.

[arishipshape]

arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.

Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.

I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.

In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.

Please, though your logic comes to the correct conclusion that I am in fact town, it is completely flawed. First, the fact that I posted as you would post is completely irrelevant to my townhood. Second, if you are to spare me on the grounds that I am a "newbie", how am I to learn either strategy, nor the essence of the forum game known as mafia? If anyone here thinks I am worthy of lynching, spare me not. Regardless, any wagon on anyone besides me is beneficial to the town, from my perspective and knowledge. Therefore, vote: shraeye

[MiX]

You really post like me...I like your style! Besides, even without the newbie pass, I still consider you town, I believe scum would talk to their summates first, diminishing that "first post" feel when they do talk in public, at least for a new person.

I am blatantly buddying you aren't I? I should prepare myself for when you're scum...

[arishipshape]

You really post like me...I like your style! Besides, even without the newbie pass, I still consider you town, I believe scum would talk to their summates first, diminishing that "first post" feel when they do talk in public, at least for a new person.

I am blatantly buddying you aren't I? I should prepare myself for when you're scum...

My style is completely irrelevant to whether I am town. However, my "first post" feel actually does lend some credence to your reasoning. Keep in mind that I just unvoted you, and so you are likely to irrationally sympathize with me more than I might deserve. Whats buddying?

[MiX]

To be honest, I disregard the first vote on me, especially one right from the start of the game.

Buddying is essencially making someone your friend, usually by townreading and sheeping them (sheeping is voting on the same wagons as theirs). The purpose of buddying is to get a townread back from the player you're buddying, thus having an ally; this is good for survival.

We should wait for others to post, but I couldn't just not answer your question.

[raerae]

Super upset you all beat me to the shraeye wagon.  Regardless, vote: shraeye.

PS: We played roughly a thousand years ago so if you're really all about that you can go look at our former games (Mafia teens and twenties?).  Also, he is my IRL husband and I will show him no mercy.

[EFHW]

Hi everyone.  I am unlikely to wax philosophical. And I may not read the longer manifestos. So please don't bury important stuff in your musings!

[Uncleeurope]

This be some bizarre buddying behavior from MiX followed by his conclusion that he should be prepared for his buddy to be scum, when buddying is a term that I would associate with something scum does.

Obviously this conclusively proves him to be scum.

Vote: MiX

I had no idea this game was so easy.

[arishipshape]

This be some bizarre buddying behavior from MiX followed by his conclusion that he should be prepared for his buddy to be scum, when buddying is a term that I would associate with something scum does.

Obviously this conclusively proves him to be scum.

Vote: MiX

I had no idea this game was so easy.

Buddying, while suspicious, is not conclusive evidence. The fact that I am new also shrouds his decisions regarding his play towards me with doubt. His conclusion of preparation for my scum (which will not occur) is merely reactionary to the fact that again, I am new and therefore entirely unpredictable. Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one. Considering the man you are buddying with to possibly be scum is merely good play. Expressing that might have not been the best move, but again, you claimed conclusive evidence. Of course, considering the fallacy fallacy, this doesn't prove you wrong. I actually lean towards agreeing with you. FOS MiX, but I keep my vote. For now, I go to die. Tomorrow, you will meet the new me!

Image was obnoxiously large, I've resized it for you—Your friendly power-mad mod

[raerae]

Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one.

So which is it?  A good move or an awful one?

[arishipshape]

Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one.

So which is it?  A good move or an awful one?

I was speaking from his perspective, as to demonstrate why saying "he may be scum" isn't necessarily scummy, but logical. From my perspective, it's a fantastic idea because I am town, except that you may get lynched for random buddying. I must only make my arguments from information had by everyone, not just me. NOW I go to die. I didn't go yet, I had business left to finish for my future self.

[raerae]

No need to dumb it down for me, I picked up what you were putting down in that first post but I was curious whether you thought it was a good idea or a bad one.  Fairly straight-forward yes or no question.  You used quite a few more words than that.  Interesting.

Vote: arishipshape

[Debatepro]

Google's AI just schooled a bunch of human pros in sc2. How long will it take before it can play mafia? What does it mean for AI to beat humans at mafia? What does it mean for AI not to beat humans at mafia? Is it scummy or towny to open a game with meaningless philosophy? Will I get another day 1 wagon this game? Why are there so many questions? Why is only one of them easy?

To answer your questions, computers will never play mafia as well as humans, AI can only "win" in the sense that it can take the correct copy-pasted messages at given times to fool humans, who will eventually catch on, AI don't beat humans because mafia is to subjective for computers to fully understand...

I'm not sure I agree. Deep Blue had access to all the games Kasparov ever played and recently AlphaZero only had the rules of the game. If AI has access to everyone's previous games as we do, rules of the game, some encoding on mafia terms, a fallacy engine, and a mechanical turk, I think the AI could pull it off.

On a serious note, what are the odds two new players would be Mafia? I only ask because buddying seems to be a tactic some Mafia use for new players, but what happens if the buddies are new? Next level mafia play or ...?

Vote: MiX

[faust]

On a serious note, what are the odds two new players would be Mafia?

Mathematics would certainly have not come into existence if one had known from the beginning that there was in nature no exactly straight line, no actual circle, no absolute magnitude.

[faust]

Super upset you all beat me to the shraeye wagon.  Regardless, vote: shraeye.

PS: We played roughly a thousand years ago so if you're really all about that you can go look at our former games (Mafia teens and twenties?).  Also, he is my IRL husband and I will show him no mercy.

One should never know too precisely whom one has married.

[faust]

That for which we find words is something already dead in our hearts. There is always a kind of contempt in the act of speaking.

Vote: raerae