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DooWopDJ

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10 Rules Questions
« on: January 06, 2019, 12:12:49 pm »
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I figured I would post all the questions in one post instead of independently.  Again (if it is not too much trouble) can you point to the source of the answer? (BTW - I really do appreciate everyone who participates in this forum, it really keeps me engaged in Dominion).
BTW - I played this as a Kingdom.

1. Disciple - Do you still play an Action if it is no longer in play? I played Pillage as my Action and since the first time it was played, it was Trashed. 
My guess per the “lost track” rule, I could not play it a second time.

2. Storyteller - Does the Treasure get countered per Treasure played, or per Coin amount on the Treasures played?  If I have 4 Silvers, then I play 3 in the Action phase, and then play 1 in buy phase (given that my extra cards are not actions or treasures)
My guess is that I would get +6 cards for playing 3 silvers (and not +3 cards), and then in buy phase I would still have 2 coins when I play my 4th Silver.

3. Haunted Woods - Does the play immediately place the rest of their hand on top of their deck, so they cannot use a Reaction (Hovel, Watchtower or Trader) card that was in their hand if they have 2 buys?
My guess is No since the 2nd Buy is independent of the 1st Buy, so they cannot use any Reaction cards since they are now on top of their deck.

4. Outpost - So you cannot take 3 consecutive turns (using Output)? Is there any scenario where 3 turns could be taken?
My guess is you only take 2 turn in total.

5. Pillage - How do you ‘complete’ the card if it is in the trash?
My guess is that the ‘text’ is still active and in play, but the card technically stays on the Trash pile.

6. Grand Market - Are setaside or cards on mats (like Island) or coin tokens on your coffers considered in play?
My guess is No as only the cards in the ‘active’ play area considered in play?

7. Diadem - Does the E + Action token (if placed on a supply pile) count as an unused action?
My guess is Yes, since it is ‘Active’ (even if I do not have a card in play that ‘activated’ it)

8. Develop - If the trashed card has potion in my hand, can I gain a similar card with 1 less and 1 more and potion in its cost?
So if I trash an Alchemist, then I could gain a Golem and a University.  Also could I trash an Alchemy and get a 2 and 4 card (without potion in its cost)?
My guess is Yes for both

9. Storeroom - Do I have to discard for the 1st part, in order to get the +coin for the 2nd part?
My guess is yes since there is not a conditional ‘if’ in the text.

10. Border Village - I think I saw a clarification on this once, but I could not find it again.  But getting passed a Border Village is not ‘gaining’ the card.
My guess it is not gained, it was only ‘passed’.
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Dominionaer

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 12:46:35 pm »
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1. Disciple - Do you still play an Action if it is no longer in play? I played Pillage as my Action and since the first time it was played, it was Trashed. 
My guess per the “lost track” rule, I could not play it a second time.
Your guess is wrong - look for Throne Room on Feast.

"Lost track" applies to things trying to move other things when expecting them at certain place. Things moving themself do not fall under "lost  track".
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Dominionaer

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2019, 12:48:55 pm »
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2. Storyteller - Does the Treasure get countered per Treasure played, or per Coin amount on the Treasures played?  If I have 4 Silvers, then I play 3 in the Action phase, and then play 1 in buy phase (given that my extra cards are not actions or treasures)
My guess is that I would get +6 cards for playing 3 silvers (and not +3 cards), and then in buy phase I would still have 2 coins when I play my 4th Silver.
Mostly correct. You draw 7 cards because Storyteller itself gives also +1$.
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Dominionaer

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2019, 01:07:30 pm »
+2

3. Haunted Woods - Does the play immediately place the rest of their hand on top of their deck, so they cannot use a Reaction (Hovel, Watchtower or Trader) card that was in their hand if they have 2 buys?
My guess is No since the 2nd Buy is independent of the 1st Buy, so they cannot use any Reaction cards since they are now on top of their deck at all.
Probably you meant "Does the buy ...":
Hovel may get trashed on first buy, because it triggers on buy. There are 2 things which triggers on buy : Hovel and Haunted Woods of which the player decides order of resolving.
Trader triggers on "would gain" and Watchtower on "gain", so they get put on deck already at first buy und could not react that turn at all.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 01:08:38 pm by Dominionaer »
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DooWopDJ

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 01:11:58 pm »
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2. Storyteller - Does the Treasure get countered per Treasure played, or per Coin amount on the Treasures played?  If I have 4 Silvers, then I play 3 in the Action phase, and then play 1 in buy phase (given that my extra cards are not actions or treasures)
My guess is that I would get +6 cards for playing 3 silvers (and not +3 cards), and then in buy phase I would still have 2 coins when I play my 4th Silver.
Mostly correct. You draw 7 cards because Storyteller itself gives also +1$.
Interesting.  I have the 1st Edition so we were only using +1 coin from Storyteller in the Buy phase. I had not realized the 're-written' rules clarified the +1 coin.  Curious why they did not just make the +1 coin a +1 card option, since that is what it will always do.
Thanks.
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Dominionaer

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 01:14:21 pm »
+1

4. Outpost - So you cannot take 3 consecutive turns (using Output)? Is there any scenario where 3 turns could be taken?
My guess is you only take 2 turn in total.
Outpost correct.
Guess wrong - you could suffer from a Kings Courted Possesion. Plus normal turn makes 4.
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Dominionaer

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 01:18:32 pm »
+1

2. Storyteller - Does the Treasure get countered per Treasure played, or per Coin amount on the Treasures played?  If I have 4 Silvers, then I play 3 in the Action phase, and then play 1 in buy phase (given that my extra cards are not actions or treasures)
My guess is that I would get +6 cards for playing 3 silvers (and not +3 cards), and then in buy phase I would still have 2 coins when I play my 4th Silver.
Mostly correct. You draw 7 cards because Storyteller itself gives also +1$.
Interesting.  I have the 1st Edition so we were only using +1 coin from Storyteller in the Buy phase. I had not realized the 're-written' rules clarified the +1 coin.  Curious why they did not just make the +1 coin a +1 card option, since that is what it will always do.
Thanks.
AFAIK Storyteller did not get 're-written'. It was always +1$ / Play up to 3 Treasures / Pay all coins (that includes money from other Actions played before Storyteller) and draw that many.
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Dominionaer

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2019, 01:25:57 pm »
+1

5. Pillage - How do you ‘complete’ the card if it is in the trash?
My guess is that the ‘text’ is still active and in play, but the card technically stays on the Trash pile.
Your guess is correct. A card does not need to be "in play" to get 'completed'. All instructions on it get triggered the moment you put it from your hand (or from where else it comes) in front of you on the table. See "Feast" : you first trash it and then gain a card as ordered. But be careful; some cards have "While this is in play ..."-clauses which for obvious reasons then get not resolved.
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Dominionaer

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 01:29:41 pm »
+1

6. Grand Market - Are setaside or cards on mats (like Island) or coin tokens on your coffers considered in play?
My guess is No as only the cards in the ‘active’ play area considered in play?
Correct.
Coin tokens can never be "in play". They are either on the appropiate mat or in supply. And to be sure: yes, you can use tokens from Coffer mat to buy Grand Market.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 01:31:55 pm by Dominionaer »
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GendoIkari

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2019, 01:32:44 pm »
+4

I figured I would post all the questions in one post instead of independently.  Again (if it is not too much trouble) can you point to the source of the answer? (BTW - I really do appreciate everyone who participates in this forum, it really keeps me engaged in Dominion).
BTW - I played this as a Kingdom.

1. Disciple - Do you still play an Action if it is no longer in play? I played Pillage as my Action and since the first time it was played, it was Trashed. 
My guess per the “lost track” rule, I could not play it a second time.
You do still play it. Lose Track rule prevents that action from being moved, so when it is played, it doesn't get moved to the in-play area. But it still gets played.

2. Storyteller - Does the Treasure get countered per Treasure played, or per Coin amount on the Treasures played?  If I have 4 Silvers, then I play 3 in the Action phase, and then play 1 in buy phase (given that my extra cards are not actions or treasures)
My guess is that I would get +6 cards for playing 3 silvers (and not +3 cards), and then in buy phase I would still have 2 coins when I play my 4th Silver.
It just says to spend your . It's not counting treasures or anything like that; it's just looking at how much you have. That could have come from treasures, or from actions like Market.

3. Haunted Woods - Does the play immediately place the rest of their hand on top of their deck, so they cannot use a Reaction (Hovel, Watchtower or Trader) card that was in their hand if they have 2 buys?
My guess is No since the 2nd Buy is independent of the 1st Buy, so they cannot use any Reaction cards since they are now on top of their deck.
Depends on the reaction. Watchtower reacts to gaining a card, which happens after you buy a card. Haunted Woods takes effect when you buy a card. So you couldn't use Watchtower. Hovel, however, also happens when you buy a card. So when you buy a card, both Hovel and Haunted Woods trigger at the same time, so you can choose the order in which you want to resolve them. So you could trash Hovel. But buy the time you could buy a second card, your hand would by on top of your deck; so Hovel would only work if you buy the victory card first.

4. Outpost - So you cannot take 3 consecutive turns (using Output)? Is there any scenario where 3 turns could be taken?
My guess is you only take 2 turn in total.

Outpost will never let you take 3 consecutive turns. Possession can let you take any number of consecutive turns; though you are Possessed during those turns.

5. Pillage - How do you ‘complete’ the card if it is in the trash?
My guess is that the ‘text’ is still active and in play, but the card technically stays on the Trash pile.
It doesn't matter if a card is trashed; you still follow all of its instructions. See Feast for the simplest example. The "text" is not "in play", but you are simply following all of the instructions on the card. Trashing a card, or moving it somewhere else, doesn't stop you from following its instructions.

6. Grand Market - Are setaside or cards on mats (like Island) or coin tokens on your coffers considered in play?
My guess is No as only the cards in the ‘active’ play area considered in play?
No, the play area is a specific place where cards can be. Set aside cards are not in play, just like cards in the trash, or in your hand, or in decks, are not in play.

7. Diadem - Does the E + Action token (if placed on a supply pile) count as an unused action?
My guess is Yes, since it is ‘Active’ (even if I do not have a card in play that ‘activated’ it)
No, actions, like coins and buys, are simply a resource that you collect throughout a turn. You start with 1 per turn, you spend 1 each time you play an action card, and you get more whenever the card you played says "+1 action" or "+2 actions", etc. Having a Action Token on a supply pile only means anything when you play a card from that pile.

8. Develop - If the trashed card has potion in my hand, can I gain a similar card with 1 less and 1 more and potion in its cost?
So if I trash an Alchemist, then I could gain a Golem and a University.  Also could I trash an Alchemy and get a 2 and 4 card (without potion in its cost)?
My guess is Yes for both
No. Exactly more than is . Same with Debt. So if the trashed card has Potion in the cost, the gained cards need Potion in the cost as well.

9. Storeroom - Do I have to discard for the 1st part, in order to get the +coin for the 2nd part?
My guess is yes since there is not a conditional ‘if’ in the text.
You have to follow all instructions on the card when you play it. So you have to discard "any number of cards" to draw that many. But that "any number" could be 0 if you like. Then, you discard "any number of cards" again, to get for it. That "any number" could also be 0. There's no difference between choosing 0 and choosing any other number.

10. Border Village - I think I saw a clarification on this once, but I could not find it again.  But getting passed a Border Village is not ‘gaining’ the card.
My guess it is not gained, it was only ‘passed’.
Correct, gaining is only something that happens when you either buy a card, or an effect specifically says "gain".
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 02:21:07 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2019, 01:34:46 pm »
+1

FYI some of these questions are answered directly in the official FAQs for the card in question; printed in each rulebook. You can also find the official FAQ on the Wiki.

For example, Masquerade:

Quote
Passed cards are not "gained" (which matters for some expansion cards, e.g. Trader from Dominion: Hinterlands).
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 01:37:49 pm by GendoIkari »
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Dominionaer

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 01:47:46 pm »
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8. Develop - If the trashed card has potion in my hand, can I gain a similar card with 1 less and 1 more and potion in its cost?
So if I trash an Alchemist, then I could gain a Golem and a University.  Also could I trash an Alchemy and get a 2 and 4 card (without potion in its cost)?
My guess is Yes for both
Yes. Exactly more than is . Same with Debt.
Alchemy? You meant probably Alchemist second time also.
Caveat: Yes for first, No for second. If the trashed costs Potion, then both cards must costs Potion also.
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GendoIkari

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2019, 02:21:29 pm »
+2

8. Develop - If the trashed card has potion in my hand, can I gain a similar card with 1 less and 1 more and potion in its cost?
So if I trash an Alchemist, then I could gain a Golem and a University.  Also could I trash an Alchemy and get a 2 and 4 card (without potion in its cost)?
My guess is Yes for both
Yes. Exactly more than is . Same with Debt.
Alchemy? You meant probably Alchemist second time also.
Caveat: Yes for first, No for second. If the trashed costs Potion, then both cards must costs Potion also.

Edited for clarity; my "yes" was misleading.
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crj

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2019, 03:53:57 pm »
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[Storyteller]
Curious why they did not just make the +1 coin a +1 card option, since that is what it will always do.
When you play a card, you do everything it says, in order.

If Storyteller said +1 Card rather than +$1, that would mean you could draw one card before deciding what treasures to play. Not the same.
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Jeebus

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 11:30:06 pm »
+2

"Lost track" applies to things trying to move other things when expecting them at certain place. Things moving themself do not fall under "lost  track".

Things moving themselves can fall under "lose track", since each time you play a card, the on-play ability starts fresh.

Throne Rooming a Mining Village:

1) Throne Room lets you choose a card, you choose Mining Village.
2) TR plays MV, putting it in play. Now the on-play ability on MV starts resolving.
3) You draw a card and get +2 Actions.
4) You choose to trash MV, do so successfully, and get +$2. At this point TR loses track of it, since it moved.
5) TR plays the MV again but fails to put it in play (since it lost track of it). Now the on-play ability on MV starts again, expecting the card to be in play, since that's where played cards normally are. Since it's not in play, the ability loses track of the card.
6) You draw a card and get +2 Actions.
7) You choose to trash MV. But this fails, since the on-play ability has lost track of the card, so it can't move it.

Jeebus

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2019, 11:31:38 pm »
+2

6. Grand Market - Are setaside or cards on mats (like Island) or coin tokens on your coffers considered in play?
My guess is No as only the cards in the ‘active’ play area considered in play?
Correct.
Coin tokens can never be "in play". They are either on the appropiate mat or in supply. And to be sure: yes, you can use tokens from Coffer mat to buy Grand Market.
As GendoIkari explained, this is wrong. Set aside cards and cards on mats are not "in play".

EDIT: I misread what the "correct" was referring to. DooWopDJ's guess was correct, and Dominionaer replied correctly!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 11:02:42 am by Jeebus »
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Jeebus

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2019, 11:36:38 pm »
+3

No. Exactly more than is . Same with Debt. So if the trashed card has Potion in the cost, the gained cards need Potion in the cost as well.

Yes, to put it another way: "Exactly more" means "Exactly and 0 and more".

GendoIkari

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Re: 10 Rules Questions
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 10:23:09 am »
+2

6. Grand Market - Are setaside or cards on mats (like Island) or coin tokens on your coffers considered in play?
My guess is No as only the cards in the ‘active’ play area considered in play?
Correct.
Coin tokens can never be "in play". They are either on the appropiate mat or in supply. And to be sure: yes, you can use tokens from Coffer mat to buy Grand Market.
As GendoIkari explained, this is wrong. Set aside cards and cards on mats are not "in play".

I think you misread this? You say it's wrong, but it agrees with me.
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