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Author Topic: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Game over)  (Read 18225 times)

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LaLight

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #725 on: January 25, 2019, 06:38:48 am »

Ok, i can’t quote the qt but there is a short piece i’ve read differently. I apparently may decline, but i have no idea what happens in this case. Assume death

From my standpoint lynching me is terrible, but from yours you are losing one town who may as well become the liability. So go ahead

have everyone misread this?
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #726 on: January 25, 2019, 06:58:42 am »

Ok, i can’t quote the qt but there is a short piece i’ve read differently. I apparently may decline, but i have no idea what happens in this case. Assume death

From my standpoint lynching me is terrible, but from yours you are losing one town who may as well become the liability. So go ahead

have everyone misread this?
I didn't understand what this post of yours meant until now.

In any case it doesn't help us all that much since you only mentioned it after the discrepancy had been pointed out
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #727 on: January 25, 2019, 07:02:36 am »

Ironic that ash keeps talking about giving the town an extra lynch day 1 (as if that’s protown) But she has in fact denied us a day one lynch by not dying.

I’m tempted to ask ash to fullclaim. I’m also tempted to go ahead and try to finish what we started day one.

Well, I didn't plan on me being the extra lynch, nor did I know I wouldn't die.

The extra lynch should have been whomever was #2 on the lynch list -- so one of the folks with two votes.  Or it looks like the new Galzria would have been coming after you.

Regardless of my not dying, we did have two "lynches" on D1.  We just didn't get two flips.

As for full claiming, not a good idea.  Remaining number of shots and when/how I can use them is what scum wants to know.  Scum also wants to lynch me.

I've claimed what needs to be known (through words or actions).  Hetnys, sometimes dayvig, sometimes hated.  Everything else is not related to my role (not dying from lynch, surviving last night).
I'd like to return to this just briefly, as a side-note.  Ash I've just run a search on the thread and you absolutely hadn't mentioned anything about your hatedness until this post quoted here.  Any clarification you have would be great; can we confirm with you for instance and in particular that your role was responsible for "both halves" of your doubly-hatedness yesterday?  (ie. your role is sometimes doublehated, not just sometimes hated.)
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #728 on: January 25, 2019, 08:33:53 am »

LaLet’s LaLynch LaLight. This seems more and more cut and dried.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #729 on: January 25, 2019, 08:40:18 am »

LaLet’s LaLynch LaLight. This seems more and more cut and dried.

I will steal that after the game ends, to my sig. Please remind

Also don't
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #730 on: January 25, 2019, 09:10:02 am »

I'd like to return to this just briefly, as a side-note.  Ash I've just run a search on the thread and you absolutely hadn't mentioned anything about your hatedness until this post quoted here.  Any clarification you have would be great; can we confirm with you for instance and in particular that your role was responsible for "both halves" of your doubly-hatedness yesterday?  (ie. your role is sometimes doublehated, not just sometimes hated.)

The post Haddock quoted was #472. There's this from Ash at #467:

Also, nice speculation by all on the odd wagon size (no sarcasm here).  But I took only 5 votes to lynch.

As for why I didn't die -- no idea.  Assuming someone protected me from the NK as I believe I'm scum's top NK priority.

He got called on that by WCD, and then clarified at #482. However, I'd definitely felt like his later tone implied that he was asserting that he'd been explicit, whereas I think "I took only 5 votes to lynch" is more readily interpreted as an observation of that fact that he was declared lynched when there were only 5 votes on him than it is as a statement of causality.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #731 on: January 25, 2019, 09:54:32 am »

I'd like to return to this just briefly, as a side-note.  Ash I've just run a search on the thread and you absolutely hadn't mentioned anything about your hatedness until this post quoted here.  Any clarification you have would be great; can we confirm with you for instance and in particular that your role was responsible for "both halves" of your doubly-hatedness yesterday?  (ie. your role is sometimes doublehated, not just sometimes hated.)

The post Haddock quoted was #472. There's this from Ash at #467:

Also, nice speculation by all on the odd wagon size (no sarcasm here).  But I took only 5 votes to lynch.

As for why I didn't die -- no idea.  Assuming someone protected me from the NK as I believe I'm scum's top NK priority.

He got called on that by WCD, and then clarified at #482. However, I'd definitely felt like his later tone implied that he was asserting that he'd been explicit, whereas I think "I took only 5 votes to lynch" is more readily interpreted as an observation of that fact that he was declared lynched when there were only 5 votes on him than it is as a statement of causality.
I absolutely interpreted it as a statement of observation rather than any kind of claim.

And I missed it during the recent search because I Ctrl+F'd for "hated" and also for "hetnys".
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #732 on: January 25, 2019, 11:00:59 am »

Does anyone know of a previous game with a cult mechanic or a robust third faction that I can read? I feel behind in terms of knowing how things work in that regard and I don’t want to slow us down.

Try Breaking Bad... although it's not really an awesome example of this, but this game somehow reminds me of that one. Also it was awesome.

Roger that....gonna go read!
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #733 on: January 25, 2019, 11:54:55 am »

Vote: DatSwan

Care to expound a little? If your intention is to start a wagon, its traditional to make a case. Especially when the town already has a strong wagon going on another player, a wagon which you haven't really weighed in on.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #734 on: January 25, 2019, 12:03:32 pm »

Vote: DatSwan

Care to expound a little? If your intention is to start a wagon, its traditional to make a case. Especially when the town already has a strong wagon going on another player, a wagon which you haven't really weighed in on.

Are you DatSwan's scum partner?
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #735 on: January 25, 2019, 12:08:27 pm »

Vote: DatSwan

Care to expound a little? If your intention is to start a wagon, its traditional to make a case. Especially when the town already has a strong wagon going on another player, a wagon which you haven't really weighed in on.

Are you DatSwan's scum partner?

Has this level of combativeness worked out well for you in other games? Genuinely curious.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #736 on: January 25, 2019, 12:09:26 pm »

Eh, I guess it doesn't hurt to weigh in on the LL wagon. I think the wagon is of very low utility and the lynch should happen later in the game if at all, instead of now. If LL is telling the truth, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch. If he is scum and he messed up his fakeclaim, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch either. Either way, we don't get any useful wagon analysis out of it.
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #737 on: January 25, 2019, 12:10:11 pm »

Eh, I guess it doesn't hurt to weigh in on the LL wagon. I think the wagon is of very low utility and the lynch should happen later in the game if at all, instead of now. If LL is telling the truth, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch. If he is scum and he messed up his fakeclaim, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch either. Either way, we don't get any useful wagon analysis out of it.

I agree with this statement.

I should have a little bit more time today
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #738 on: January 25, 2019, 12:18:50 pm »

Eh, I guess it doesn't hurt to weigh in on the LL wagon. I think the wagon is of very low utility and the lynch should happen later in the game if at all, instead of now. If LL is telling the truth, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch. If he is scum and he messed up his fakeclaim, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch either. Either way, we don't get any useful wagon analysis out of it.

I don't follow your logic at all.

If she's scum, scum want her to survive because that's how they win. If the other scum aren't defending her its because they think there's more utility in earning town points by being on the scum wagon.

If she does end up town, then I think she's just as informative as any other lynch, plus we're not losing a power that has any utility to town, plus her alignment was probably going to change anyway which likely would have been bad for town.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #739 on: January 25, 2019, 12:36:28 pm »

Eh, I guess it doesn't hurt to weigh in on the LL wagon. I think the wagon is of very low utility and the lynch should happen later in the game if at all, instead of now. If LL is telling the truth, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch. If he is scum and he messed up his fakeclaim, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch either. Either way, we don't get any useful wagon analysis out of it.

I don't follow your logic at all.

If she's scum, scum want her to survive because that's how they win. If the other scum aren't defending her its because they think there's more utility in earning town points by being on the scum wagon.

If she does end up town, then I think she's just as informative as any other lynch, plus we're not losing a power that has any utility to town, plus her alignment was probably going to change anyway which likely would have been bad for town.

It's just a very weird fakeclaim for scum to make--it makes town inclined to lynch her. I guess WIFOM, but I'm willing to believe her for now.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #740 on: January 25, 2019, 12:43:17 pm »

If she's scum, scum want her to survive because that's how they win. If the other scum aren't defending her its because they think there's more utility in earning town points by being on the scum wagon.

Here's a list of people who would defend a scum partner who they know just scumslipped:
 -
 -
 -
 -
 -

Oh, and I almost forgot this person:
 -

If she does end up town, then I think she's just as informative as any other lynch, plus we're not losing a power that has any utility to town, plus her alignment was probably going to change anyway which likely would have been bad for town.

The fact that we're "not losing a power that has any utility to town, plus her alignment was probably going to change anyway which likely would have been bad for town" is exactly a part of the reason why the lynch is meaningless. You don't get scum points for pushing the lynch because it's at least an alright lynch from town's perspective.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #741 on: January 25, 2019, 12:47:47 pm »

Eh, I guess it doesn't hurt to weigh in on the LL wagon. I think the wagon is of very low utility and the lynch should happen later in the game if at all, instead of now. If LL is telling the truth, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch. If he is scum and he messed up his fakeclaim, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch either. Either way, we don't get any useful wagon analysis out of it.

I don't follow your logic at all.

If she's scum, scum want her to survive because that's how they win. If the other scum aren't defending her its because they think there's more utility in earning town points by being on the scum wagon.

If she does end up town, then I think she's just as informative as any other lynch, plus we're not losing a power that has any utility to town, plus her alignment was probably going to change anyway which likely would have been bad for town.

It's just a very weird fakeclaim for scum to make--it makes town inclined to lynch her. I guess WIFOM, but I'm willing to believe her for now.
But even if we believe her, why wouldn't we lynch her? 
If she's town and her claim is true then she will shortly become not-town; if anyone is thinking of wasting a role block on Lalight for the rest of the game to prevent her changing, I beg them to think again.


Obviously going elsewhere is fine, but I haven't seen a convincing case on anyone else, so I'm definitely happy with where my vote is right now.  (Yes other people are scummy, but not _that_ scummy.)
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #742 on: January 25, 2019, 12:48:22 pm »

If she's scum, scum want her to survive because that's how they win. If the other scum aren't defending her its because they think there's more utility in earning town points by being on the scum wagon.

Here's a list of people who would defend a scum partner who they know just scumslipped:
 -
 -
 -
 -
 -

Oh, and I almost forgot this person:
 -

If she does end up town, then I think she's just as informative as any other lynch, plus we're not losing a power that has any utility to town, plus her alignment was probably going to change anyway which likely would have been bad for town.

The fact that we're "not losing a power that has any utility to town, plus her alignment was probably going to change anyway which likely would have been bad for town" is exactly a part of the reason why the lynch is meaningless. You don't get scum points for pushing the lynch because it's at least an alright lynch from town's perspective.

So you're saying you do think she's scum... but you don't want to lynch her?
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #743 on: January 25, 2019, 12:54:37 pm »

So you're saying you do think she's scum... but you don't want to lynch her?

No, I don't know if he's scum or not, that's why I'm considering both of the possible scenarios. In both of the possible scenarios, both town and scum want to be on the wagon so it doesn't tell us anything about anyone's alignment, which is why we should have a more informative lynch today and focus on this later, preferably when we also have more info.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #744 on: January 25, 2019, 01:04:47 pm »

So you're saying you do think she's scum... but you don't want to lynch her?

No, I don't know if he's scum or not, that's why I'm considering both of the possible scenarios. In both of the possible scenarios, both town and scum want to be on the wagon so it doesn't tell us anything about anyone's alignment, which is why we should have a more informative lynch today and focus on this later, preferably when we also have more info.

You're not taking into account all the people who were on the wagon before the claim. Information you get about our alignments would be untainted by that knowledge.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #745 on: January 25, 2019, 01:30:48 pm »

So you're saying you do think she's scum... but you don't want to lynch her?

No, I don't know if he's scum or not, that's why I'm considering both of the possible scenarios. In both of the possible scenarios, both town and scum want to be on the wagon so it doesn't tell us anything about anyone's alignment, which is why we should have a more informative lynch today and focus on this later, preferably when we also have more info.

You're not taking into account all the people who were on the wagon before the claim. Information you get about our alignments would be untainted by that knowledge.

Sure, but why not instead get a wagon going where the entire wagon is untainted.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #746 on: January 25, 2019, 01:39:29 pm »

So you're saying you do think she's scum... but you don't want to lynch her?

No, I don't know if he's scum or not, that's why I'm considering both of the possible scenarios. In both of the possible scenarios, both town and scum want to be on the wagon so it doesn't tell us anything about anyone's alignment, which is why we should have a more informative lynch today and focus on this later, preferably when we also have more info.

You're not taking into account all the people who were on the wagon before the claim. Information you get about our alignments would be untainted by that knowledge.

Sure, but why not instead get a wagon going where the entire wagon is untainted.

Until that person claims and we're in the same boat.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #747 on: January 25, 2019, 01:40:42 pm »

So you're saying you do think she's scum... but you don't want to lynch her?

No, I don't know if he's scum or not, that's why I'm considering both of the possible scenarios. In both of the possible scenarios, both town and scum want to be on the wagon so it doesn't tell us anything about anyone's alignment, which is why we should have a more informative lynch today and focus on this later, preferably when we also have more info.

Hey look, you're saying no-one would oppose lynching LL but here you (and mail-mi) are opposing it!

Your naked vote on Swan puts 0 pressure on him at this point in the game; if you actually have a case against him you should post that. Right now it looks a lot like you voted for him in order to tempt me to follow since you know I've expressed a scumread on him.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #748 on: January 25, 2019, 02:09:11 pm »

Eh, I guess it doesn't hurt to weigh in on the LL wagon. I think the wagon is of very low utility and the lynch should happen later in the game if at all, instead of now. If LL is telling the truth, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch. If he is scum and he messed up his fakeclaim, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch either. Either way, we don't get any useful wagon analysis out of it.

As other people are pointing out, this is ridiculous. But also, the idiom "a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush" is exceptionally true in the world of mafia. Scum knows that putting off a lynch until later is as good as cancelling a lynch because people in these games have short memories and attention spans. If we think we have caught scum, we should lynch. Anything else is anti-town.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #749 on: January 25, 2019, 02:14:22 pm »

Until that person claims and we're in the same boat.

I don't know man, it'll start to get suspicious at some point if everyone claims that their alignment can change to non-town and then messes up the claim.

Hey look, you're saying no-one would oppose lynching LL but here you (and mail-mi) are opposing it!

I can't speak for mail-mi, but I'm not opposed to lynching LL. I'm just saying we should delay it for the time being.

As other people are pointing out, this is ridiculous. But also, the idiom "a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush" is exceptionally true in the world of mafia. Scum knows that putting off a lynch until later is as good as cancelling a lynch because people in these games have short memories and attention spans. If we think we have caught scum, we should lynch. Anything else is anti-town.

Other people are wrong. You can't delete posts so it doesn't matter how long someone's memory is, they can always read the posts again.
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