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Author Topic: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Game over)  (Read 39128 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #775 on: January 25, 2019, 08:47:43 pm »

Oh by the way I keep meaning to say, if I haven't already: there is nothing I did N1 that would have prevented LaLight's claimed thing from happening.

If we want to go down this road (and Iím not certain we do) I should claim a little more.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #776 on: January 26, 2019, 12:47:56 am »

Ok so we got Ash who is some day Vig of sorts with a hated attribute -2.... they were also lynch proof yesterday and did not know about it. If there is one thing that i absolutely believe about Ash claim it is the bit about ďday one shot effecting something about their future shotsĒ... just cuz it could be true regardless of alignment and it kind of explains why shoot day one... again regardless of alignment.

Then we got Hypercube - not worth too much worry as itís kind of a ďif they wake up tomorrow wtfĒ situation. But that aside i believe them at this point.

Onto E! Which everyone has brought up the potential Ash/E! Thing. What i find funny is that no one re visited this from a different angle after LL claimed. If Iím reading LL right, a cop result is random yeah? 50/50 on town or skum.... so if something like that is in play... it is completely possible that E! Got a false result (if that makes sense).


Also we should remember that MCMC flipped MD - so that opened a lot of doors for skum to feel safe fake claiming information because thatís a big informative role out the window already.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #777 on: January 26, 2019, 12:59:14 am »

Oh by the way I keep meaning to say, if I haven't already: there is nothing I did N1 that would have prevented LaLight's claimed thing from happening.

If we want to go down this road (and Iím not certain we do) I should claim a little more.

Does ďa little moreĒ mean you have already claimed something i am missing? Or just in general?
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #778 on: January 26, 2019, 02:41:19 am »

Oh by the way I keep meaning to say, if I haven't already: there is nothing I did N1 that would have prevented LaLight's claimed thing from happening.

If we want to go down this road (and Iím not certain we do) I should claim a little more.

Does ďa little moreĒ mean you have already claimed something i am missing? Or just in general?

She claimed that her role let her name one player and target another and that she named LL but didnít target her.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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faust

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #779 on: January 26, 2019, 02:53:51 am »

Vote Count 2.4

jotheonah (1): mail-mi
LaLight (4): Glooble, hypercube, Haddock, jotheonah
2.71828..... (1): LaLight
DatSwan (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, ashersky, 2.71828.....

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends on January 29, 2019, 01:00:00 am.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #780 on: January 26, 2019, 03:09:06 am »

Oh by the way I keep meaning to say, if I haven't already: there is nothing I did N1 that would have prevented LaLight's claimed thing from happening.

If we want to go down this road (and Iím not certain we do) I should claim a little more.

Does ďa little moreĒ mean you have already claimed something i am missing? Or just in general?

She claimed that her role let her name one player and target another and that she named LL but didnít target her.

oh right the mtg thing - totally forgot about that.

In that case, my vote is yes let's go down the rabbit hole (@joth). If you have the ability to "name/target", then it is probably a component of the game that exists more than once. Learning more about it will probably be beneficial as we have to assume as least someone of a skum/sk/evil/whatever faction knows how it works.

Complete honesty a little bit of it is because I do not understand how it operates (and I have played A LOT of mtg, so I get the general concept)... I just don't get how it works here. So I guess... maybe claim isn't necessary if you think it is best to hold back info.. but an understanding of the what it is that it can do probably would be beneficial. (I say all of that assuming that if you had damning evidence of sorts, you would not be hesitant about sharing it of course)
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #781 on: January 26, 2019, 03:37:39 am »

Sorry, just got a bit busy the last day or so. Really need to reread everything after LaLight's claim, should be able to do that later today.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #782 on: January 26, 2019, 04:14:54 am »

Scum might intentionally bus a partner especially if they think defending them is too dangerous

Might? Scum is definitely going to intentionally bus a partner they know scumslipped.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #783 on: January 26, 2019, 07:33:54 am »

Scum might intentionally bus a partner especially if they think defending them is too dangerous

Might? Scum is definitely going to intentionally bus a partner they know scumslipped.

Depends on the severity of the slip. You and I obviously play this game differently as scum. Lalight is still alive and 3 votes from lynching, so clearly her death is preventable. If I were scum who hadnít voted yet right now, I wouldnít be bussing. I would be looking for some convoluted way to keep her alive while also distancing myself from her.

I.e. exactly what youíre doing.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #784 on: January 26, 2019, 07:37:11 am »

So if you are scum, then we play the same as scum, but if youíre town then we play very differently as scum. To clarify.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #785 on: January 26, 2019, 07:47:47 am »

Depends on the severity of the slip. You and I obviously play this game differently as scum. Lalight is still alive and 3 votes from lynching, so clearly her death is preventable. If I were scum who hadnít voted yet right now, I wouldnít be bussing. I would be looking for some convoluted way to keep her alive while also distancing myself from her.

I.e. exactly what youíre doing.

What I would do if I was scum was busing as hard as I can. I.e. exactly what you're doing.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #786 on: January 26, 2019, 07:49:56 am »

Except I started the wagon. And have been pushing it consistently.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #787 on: January 26, 2019, 07:53:28 am »

Except I started the wagon. And have been pushing it consistently.

It's not like your explanation of what I'm doing was at all more accurate, given that I'm not trying to keep LL alive, I'm talking about him all the time instead of distancing myself from him, and there is nothing convoluted about the simple concept of inflation.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #788 on: January 26, 2019, 08:03:08 am »

Oh by the way I keep meaning to say, if I haven't already: there is nothing I did N1 that would have prevented LaLight's claimed thing from happening.

If we want to go down this road (and Iím not certain we do) I should claim a little more.
Entirely your choice.  I didn't intend for there to be lots of claims, I just felt I could reveal that without giving away anything much about my role.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #789 on: January 26, 2019, 08:08:40 am »

I see what hyper have said. But it still rubs me the wrong way. Third-parties do not work with town. maybe faust overrode this somehow, but then why wouldn't one of those third-party guys told us so? Why wouldn't hyper then convert and claim basically the same thing, but staying alive? if they are not the enemy, that is. hyper would be alive, scum would need to kill one more person. But no, hyper declined and we lose a person, who in any case would help town, being either town or so-called helping third party

Reading back, this response, coming from LL (who prefers to play town, I'm pretty sure), seems actually quite consistent with his faction-change claim, in that it shows some frustration with faction changes. I do wonder whether he has some inkling of how town-aligned he'd end up if he takes the faction change, though.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #790 on: January 26, 2019, 09:00:52 am »

LL retconning an option into his claim is scummy.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #791 on: January 26, 2019, 09:20:52 am »

I keep forgetting that Hyper is going to die today. If LL is Radch, too, and if there is a NK that is a rather dramatic decrease in our town folk.  :-\

Hey, why didnít anyone die during N1? I was so caught up in the Asher kill and then lynchproof and Joth hated parts that I hadnít processed the lack of a nightkill.

The Glooble/Awaclus discussion makes me feel pretty towny about both of them, although maybe that is the point. Iíve never actually seen Awa engage this much with someone so it seems out of the ordinary for him, but the nature of his engagement is consistent with my (limited) Awa experience.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #792 on: January 26, 2019, 09:57:49 am »

Has anyone pointed out that giving the hated modified out as a night action is definitely a scum-style power?

Did Joth suggest that likelihood. I think he did. Something about helping along the easy mislynch, I think.

Did anyone then mention that a good scum tactic for gaining towncred would be to use said scum power on a member of your own faction?  And doing so early in the game is sensible for safety and maximum benefit?

No, I guess that hadnít been pointed out yet.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #793 on: January 26, 2019, 10:02:42 am »

I keep forgetting that Hyper is going to die today. If LL is Radch, too, and if there is a NK that is a rather dramatic decrease in our town folk.  :-\

Hey, why didnít anyone die during N1? I was so caught up in the Asher kill and then lynchproof and Joth hated parts that I hadnít processed the lack of a nightkill.

The Glooble/Awaclus discussion makes me feel pretty towny about both of them, although maybe that is the point. Iíve never actually seen Awa engage this much with someone so it seems out of the ordinary for him, but the nature of his engagement is consistent with my (limited) Awa experience.
I keep forgetting that Hyper is going to die today. If LL is Radch, too, and if there is a NK that is a rather dramatic decrease in our town folk.  :-\

Hey, why didnít anyone die during N1? I was so caught up in the Asher kill and then lynchproof and Joth hated parts that I hadnít processed the lack of a nightkill.

The Glooble/Awaclus discussion makes me feel pretty towny about both of them, although maybe that is the point. Iíve never actually seen Awa engage this much with someone so it seems out of the ordinary for him, but the nature of his engagement is consistent with my (limited) Awa experience.

The most likely possibility is we have a doctor and they got lucky/played well. A town doc obviously wouldnít want to claim here (and rightly so).

It could also be a roleblocker, but in that case they maybe should claim since they have a pretty good idea their target is scum. Or it could be a jailkeeper, in which case itís 50/50 if they targeted the victim or the shooter.

But we donít know and probably donít gain much by speculating. If a person thinks they should claim they will.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #794 on: January 26, 2019, 10:04:20 am »

Has anyone pointed out that giving the hated modified out as a night action is definitely a scum-style power?

Did Joth suggest that likelihood. I think he did. Something about helping along the easy mislynch, I think.

Did anyone then mention that a good scum tactic for gaining towncred would be to use said scum power on a member of your own faction?  And doing so early in the game is sensible for safety and maximum benefit?

No, I guess that hadnít been pointed out yet.

Keeping in mind that Iím town and so I know this isnít true, I can definitely see it. But it might be something some scum, especially new scum, might not think of or might not be gutsy enough to do.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #795 on: January 26, 2019, 10:48:30 am »

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

Two other points about LL's claim that have me thinking that it could easily be fake:

The "Shy" modifier presumably is related to the alignment-changing part of the claim. However, LL's alignment would change if she's unable to visit or if no-one targets her; that sounds like the opposite of shy to me, so it could be a modification of a real role that LL knows about somehow.

"Bugged" makes sense for a role that would give an AI a chance as identifying as human, but less so for a role that would give a human a chance of identifying as AI. Of course faust could have given the Bugged modifier to various people and just called it the same thing in all cases, but it feels a bit out of place here and could easily be something that scum!LL took from her true role or one of her teammates' roles.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #796 on: January 26, 2019, 10:50:27 am »

Has anyone pointed out that giving the hated modified out as a night action is definitely a scum-style power?

Did Joth suggest that likelihood. I think he did. Something about helping along the easy mislynch, I think.

Did anyone then mention that a good scum tactic for gaining towncred would be to use said scum power on a member of your own faction?  And doing so early in the game is sensible for safety and maximum benefit?

No, I guess that hadnít been pointed out yet.

It's also possible that it's a scum power and they didn't know that it would be announced publicly. Personally I don't think it says anything about joth's alignment one way or the other.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #797 on: January 26, 2019, 10:56:34 am »

If we think LL is the person most likely to be scum, we should lynch her today regardless of how informative the wagon is (and I think at this point it's decently informative). This is an RMM, we don't know what powers scum could have but we probably want to minimize their opportunities to use them.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #798 on: January 26, 2019, 12:16:29 pm »

If we think LL is the person most likely to be scum, we should lynch her today regardless of how informative the wagon is

Well, that's already a lot better than lynching him just because he's low/potentially negative utility even if he's telling the truth.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #799 on: January 26, 2019, 12:24:21 pm »

I keep forgetting that Hyper is going to die today. If LL is Radch, too, and if there is a NK that is a rather dramatic decrease in our town folk.  :-\

Hey, why didnít anyone die during N1? I was so caught up in the Asher kill and then lynchproof and Joth hated parts that I hadnít processed the lack of a nightkill.

The Glooble/Awaclus discussion makes me feel pretty towny about both of them, although maybe that is the point. Iíve never actually seen Awa engage this much with someone so it seems out of the ordinary for him, but the nature of his engagement is consistent with my (limited) Awa experience.
I keep forgetting that Hyper is going to die today. If LL is Radch, too, and if there is a NK that is a rather dramatic decrease in our town folk.  :-\

Hey, why didnít anyone die during N1? I was so caught up in the Asher kill and then lynchproof and Joth hated parts that I hadnít processed the lack of a nightkill.

The Glooble/Awaclus discussion makes me feel pretty towny about both of them, although maybe that is the point. Iíve never actually seen Awa engage this much with someone so it seems out of the ordinary for him, but the nature of his engagement is consistent with my (limited) Awa experience.

The most likely possibility is we have a doctor and they got lucky/played well. A town doc obviously wouldnít want to claim here (and rightly so).

It could also be a roleblocker, but in that case they maybe should claim since they have a pretty good idea their target is scum. Or it could be a jailkeeper, in which case itís 50/50 if they targeted the victim or the shooter.

But we donít know and probably donít gain much by speculating. If a person thinks they should claim they will.

I had a thought that maybe the lack of kill is because this weird hypercube recruitment thing is like a kill-substitute?
After all it results always in the loss of a town player...

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

Two other points about LL's claim that have me thinking that it could easily be fake:

The "Shy" modifier presumably is related to the alignment-changing part of the claim. However, LL's alignment would change if she's unable to visit or if no-one targets her; that sounds like the opposite of shy to me, so it could be a modification of a real role that LL knows about somehow.

"Bugged" makes sense for a role that would give an AI a chance as identifying as human, but less so for a role that would give a human a chance of identifying as AI. Of course faust could have given the Bugged modifier to various people and just called it the same thing in all cases, but it feels a bit out of place here and could easily be something that scum!LL took from her true role or one of her teammates' roles.
I think once again you're reading wrong?
I understood that LLs alignment changes unless she was blocked.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87
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