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Author Topic: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Game over)  (Read 68404 times)

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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #700 on: January 24, 2019, 10:56:16 am »


Glooble, who do you think the scum faction are?


Probably the rogue faction of Anander Miannani, and the town-aligned faction of Anander Miannani is the one Breq is working for in the books.

The aliens wouldn't make much sense as scum. They're not the primary antagonists of the story. The translators are basically good guys, though their presence complicates things for Breq.

Agreed that alines don't make sense as scum, but then what do you do with Hyper's explanation that he is being recruited by Aanander- which by your thoughts (and mine) suggest are the bad guys? Scum wouldn't have that much power, would they? How do we parse this?


Cube was targeted by the "good" Anander. Scum is led by the bad Anander. I guess there would have to be a third Anander for the cult's win-con not to be redundant. With any other flavor I would say it's ridiculous but it's part of what makes the Ancillary books so fun.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #701 on: January 24, 2019, 10:57:17 am »

Hey y'all, I have so much to do today (irl day) that I won't be on the forums at all. Got a lot of catching up to do, will probably have a lot more by the time tomorrow comes.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #702 on: January 24, 2019, 10:57:54 am »

Here's the thing. If there's a survivor, that's the most likely person to have lynchproof.

What if ash is lying and hated is NOT part of her role but lynchproof IS? Maybe she got hated N0 from the same person who gave me hated today. It does seem weird that that person didn't counterclaim when ash said it was part of her role, but some people really don't like to claim.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #703 on: January 24, 2019, 11:02:39 am »

Here's the thing. If there's a survivor, that's the most likely person to have lynchproof.

What if ash is lying and hated is NOT part of her role but lynchproof IS? Maybe she got hated N0 from the same person who gave me hated today. It does seem weird that that person didn't counterclaim when ash said it was part of her role, but some people really don't like to claim.

I agree that lynchproof points to survivor or SK, but then there's no reason for E to fake a cop result and protect ash.

Your hated was announced in the thread while hers wasn't, so it makes sense that they'd be from different sources.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #704 on: January 24, 2019, 11:06:19 am »

That's a good point.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Signups open!)
« Reply #705 on: January 24, 2019, 11:20:44 am »

For those analysing the flavour, don't forget this:

The setting is roughly at the start of the second book.

which might be helpful.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #706 on: January 24, 2019, 12:48:32 pm »


Glooble, who do you think the scum faction are?


Probably the rogue faction of Anander Miannani, and the town-aligned faction of Anander Miannani is the one Breq is working for in the books.

The aliens wouldn't make much sense as scum. They're not the primary antagonists of the story. The translators are basically good guys, though their presence complicates things for Breq.

Agreed that alines don't make sense as scum, but then what do you do with Hyper's explanation that he is being recruited by Aanander- which by your thoughts (and mine) suggest are the bad guys? Scum wouldn't have that much power, would they? How do we parse this?


Cube was targeted by the "good" Anander. Scum is led by the bad Anander. I guess there would have to be a third Anander for the cult's win-con not to be redundant. With any other flavor I would say it's ridiculous but it's part of what makes the Ancillary books so fun.

Oh, this is interesting and I need to think about it some more so I am putting it here to remember.  So, if Hyper had agreed, he's have still been town but he would have been tied to a leader who is not Breq (presumably), so the only thing different about being VT and the change would have been the precarious position of having his fate tied to someone else's? Is that how it would have worked? You're right that it is what is interesting about the books (the house divided) and faust would likely maintain that. So, there isn't a third party, just a self-interested leader?

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #707 on: January 24, 2019, 01:18:08 pm »

Oh, this is interesting and I need to think about it some more so I am putting it here to remember.  So, if Hyper had agreed, he's have still been town but he would have been tied to a leader who is not Breq (presumably), so the only thing different about being VT and the change would have been the precarious position of having his fate tied to someone else's? Is that how it would have worked? You're right that it is what is interesting about the books (the house divided) and faust would likely maintain that. So, there isn't a third party, just a self-interested leader?

No, it's explicitly an alignment change, so I would be part of a different faction with a different win condition than town's. The new win condition doesn't completely overlap with town's: town is required to have at least one Radch-aligned player alive at the end of the game. So there's probably some possibility that the cult ends up as the only faction left alive in which case I may regret the decisions I have made.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #708 on: January 24, 2019, 01:30:02 pm »

The way faust worded my power felt like he was familiar with MtG and that there's a meaningful distinction between naming and targeting. So I explicitly named but did not target LaLight.

How does your name-not-target thing work with a motion detector?
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #709 on: January 24, 2019, 01:40:27 pm »

The way faust worded my power felt like he was familiar with MtG and that there's a meaningful distinction between naming and targeting. So I explicitly named but did not target LaLight.

How does your name-not-target thing work with a motion detector?

I have no idea.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #710 on: January 24, 2019, 01:42:34 pm »

I would assume it depends on the exact wording of the motion detector role pm.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #711 on: January 24, 2019, 03:51:12 pm »

Hi guys, see my note in VLA if you've wondered where I am. I think I should have some catch up time tomorrow at the latest.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #712 on: January 24, 2019, 04:27:53 pm »

One thought about LL's claimed role: since we know there's a survivor-like faction in the game already, it seems likely that "self-aligned" means that LL would turn into some sort of SK if she changes alignment.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #713 on: January 24, 2019, 04:36:30 pm »

One thought about LL's claimed role: since we know there's a survivor-like faction in the game already, it seems likely that "self-aligned" means that LL would turn into some sort of SK if she changes alignment.

Or a Jester. Or is Jester considered bastard?
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #714 on: January 24, 2019, 06:26:54 pm »

The way faust worded my power felt like he was familiar with MtG and that there's a meaningful distinction between naming and targeting. So I explicitly named but did not target LaLight.

How does your name-not-target thing work with a motion detector?

I have no idea.

Well, mcmc flipped motion detector, meaning faust must have had to made rulings ahead of time for how it would work, so I would have expected the wording of you role and its "MtG" mechanic not to be ambiguous in that respect. At worst, though, there's now enough public information for you to ask him in your QT.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #715 on: January 24, 2019, 08:08:48 pm »

Does anyone know of a previous game with a cult mechanic or a robust third faction that I can read? I feel behind in terms of knowing how things work in that regard and I donít want to slow us down.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #716 on: January 24, 2019, 08:40:37 pm »

PPE a ton of catch up since LL claim. But for now i am essentially edged on believing all claims to at least an extent. Reasons to follow.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #717 on: January 25, 2019, 02:06:08 am »

One thought about LL's claimed role: since we know there's a survivor-like faction in the game already, it seems likely that "self-aligned" means that LL would turn into some sort of SK if she changes alignment.

Or a Jester. Or is Jester considered bastard?

Jester is bastard indeed
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #718 on: January 25, 2019, 02:06:46 am »

Does anyone know of a previous game with a cult mechanic or a robust third faction that I can read? I feel behind in terms of knowing how things work in that regard and I donít want to slow us down.

Try Breaking Bad... although it's not really an awesome example of this, but this game somehow reminds me of that one. Also it was awesome.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #719 on: January 25, 2019, 02:08:45 am »

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

Well, I targeted Haddock. I have no idea if I was visiting him in the end (I might've been roleblocked or I might've been visited). Or maybe Haddovck commuted or was rolestopped. I have no idea, but I did not have a choice to change alignment, basically I didn't get any response
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #720 on: January 25, 2019, 02:49:36 am »

Vote: DatSwan
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #721 on: January 25, 2019, 05:48:13 am »

LL's claim doesn't make sense. The mechanism for her alignment claim, as I understand it, is that her alignment would change if her visit is blocked or if no-one targets her. That contradicts the setup:

Quote
Noone's alignment can change without their consent.


This is a good point, especially if she has to visit someone.

Yeah, seconded. I'd just started worrying about the forced alignment change aspect too.
Read again, folks:

LL's alignment would change if she successfully visited. 
So her alignment would have changed if her role worked as she intended.  That is, LL's role is essentially an option to change alignment (unless blocked or something).   So yeah, given that it is LL's choice to attempt to change alignment, the claim definitely fits within the "consent" aspect.


Then again if we don't know the wincon of self-aligned!LL, lynching LL may well be as a good a choice as any: either LL is lying scum or LL is a semi-towny with an option to change alignment to something unknown at some point in the future, an ability which she has already demonstrated a desire to use.
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M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #722 on: January 25, 2019, 05:53:53 am »

LL's claim doesn't make sense. The mechanism for her alignment claim, as I understand it, is that her alignment would change if her visit is blocked or if no-one targets her. That contradicts the setup:

Quote
Noone's alignment can change without their consent.


This is a good point, especially if she has to visit someone.

Yeah, seconded. I'd just started worrying about the forced alignment change aspect too.
Read again, folks:

LL's alignment would change if she successfully visited. 
So her alignment would have changed if her role worked as she intended.  That is, LL's role is essentially an option to change alignment (unless blocked or something).   So yeah, given that it is LL's choice to attempt to change alignment, the claim definitely fits within the "consent" aspect.


Then again if we don't know the wincon of self-aligned!LL, lynching LL may well be as a good a choice as any: either LL is lying scum or LL is a semi-towny with an option to change alignment to something unknown at some point in the future, an ability which she has already demonstrated a desire to use.

Right, I misread that part, but you missed where she claims to be a compulsive vistor, so to visit or not can't be the choice part of the alignment change. For her to stay town her visit must be blocked or someone must target her.

I am still inclined to lynch LL unless someone claims they targeted her last night.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #723 on: January 25, 2019, 05:57:42 am »

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

Well, I targeted Haddock. I have no idea if I was visiting him in the end (I might've been roleblocked or I might've been visited). Or maybe Haddovck commuted or was rolestopped. I have no idea, but I did not have a choice to change alignment, basically I didn't get any response

Nothing I did would have caused you to be blocked or stopped or anything.


LL's claim doesn't make sense. The mechanism for her alignment claim, as I understand it, is that her alignment would change if her visit is blocked or if no-one targets her. That contradicts the setup:

Quote
Noone's alignment can change without their consent.


This is a good point, especially if she has to visit someone.

Yeah, seconded. I'd just started worrying about the forced alignment change aspect too.
Read again, folks:

LL's alignment would change if she successfully visited. 
So her alignment would have changed if her role worked as she intended.  That is, LL's role is essentially an option to change alignment (unless blocked or something).   So yeah, given that it is LL's choice to attempt to change alignment, the claim definitely fits within the "consent" aspect.


Then again if we don't know the wincon of self-aligned!LL, lynching LL may well be as a good a choice as any: either LL is lying scum or LL is a semi-towny with an option to change alignment to something unknown at some point in the future, an ability which she has already demonstrated a desire to use.

Right, I misread that part, but you missed where she claims to be a compulsive vistor, so to visit or not can't be the choice part of the alignment change. For her to stay town her visit must be blocked or someone must target her.

I am still inclined to lynch LL unless someone claims they targeted her last night.
You're right, I did miss the compulsive part.  That does look extremely bad.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #724 on: January 25, 2019, 06:24:52 am »

The claim as stated doesnít fit the rules. Assuming no mod error, itís fake or mistaken.

What is the motivation for scum to fake claim that specific thing?  What scum knowledge is it based on. I think those are some questions Iím pondering.
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