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[WestCoastDidds]

But I think Ash is town

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Everyone thinks Ash is town, I think the only people who haven't made strong statements to that effect are the people unwilling to vote for her.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

For how much the case against me seems to be based on my claim, I see a terrifying lack of thought about it.

I will lay this out blatantly because it seems like there's no chance of Space, if town, actually picking up what I've been trying to do.

If Space is town, Space could Voyuer the player with the most amount of town reads, Awaclus if we lynch Ash. Then I protect Awaclus and Space sees Awaclus being protected, thus verifying my claim. By trying to do it subtly I was hoping to also WIFOM scum into NKing Awaclus while I protect her, since I seem reasonably lynchable.

Even with claiming this plan, it's the same as if scum had been paying more attention than many people seem to be at this point: our top 2 lynch candidates, if we don't lynch Ash, seem to be me and Space. If both Space and I are town, either scum kill one of me or Space, thus taking an incorrect lynch off the table, or they have to kill one of the less widely-townread players instead of Awaclus. If Space is scum, tomorrow she wouldn't have announced seeing Awaclus get healed anyway but at least then it's down to me-or-Space and everyone can be confident there is one scum there.

I have seen zero effort from Space or e to pick up what I'm trying to do here, and I don't think e has said anything about my being able to confirm myself without scarequotes at all. I'm spelling it out, this is the best plan even so, but it would be better with some critical thinking, and that lack of critical thinking smells scummy as hell to me.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

And I pointed out the policy lynch language issue because "policy lynch" is weasel words. Words have positive or negative connotations and while I don't think all the policy lynch language comes from scum, it is biased language against that plan, and I think in some cases deliberately biased language, and I think in some cases comes from scum who don't want us to do what the best plan actually is because they'd rather push for the win now.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

If we lynch Space and she flips scum, come back to this:

Assume a Space + LL scumteam, who is the 3rd partner:

• WestCoastDidds — Ruling out as outlined previously
  
• ashersky — Aside from everyone's townread on Ash, Space calls out Ash’s plan for delaying the game really early in a way that I think would have been really easy for scum Space/LL/Ash to just let lie, it gets in the way of what Ash is doing but it's not the kind of distancing people usually think of, also Ash’s #1739, I don't think Ash has LaLight's bad habit, and the thought isn't oterwise out there, don't see scumAsh planting the thought that her partner might have done the NK, even though I wouldn't be surprised if she says she totally would do such a thing, I don't think the thought of planting that suspicion occurs, but mostly the first thing
• jotheonah — When Joth started to lose her tunnel on me, Space argues in #1412 that “likely mislynch” doesn’t necessarily follow from odd one out, she argues with Joth’s argument here, which would be absolutely bizarre from a Joth/Space scumteam when one of them has been pushing me hard and the other was sort of vaguely on me.
• Glooble — #1500 and Space reacting to it in the next post, this one isn’t as strong as the other stuff, but I’d still be really surprised if this was the team. I think it's a stronger non-partner interaction than it first looks like.

• Awaclus — Space does defend Awaclus when Awaclus is getting off mail-mi on Day 2 in a pretty significant way, and then Space votes mail-mi. On the other hand, as Space herself pointed out, a Space + Awaclus scumteam would have had a few chances to hammer me and reasonable cover for doing so. At the start of the day it felt like absolutely everyone was okay with my lynch, so there would have been plenty of cover for this, but I think Space didn't realize it was LYLO at the time, and is probably a better scum player than she's making apparently anyone out to be.
• 2.71828..... — The biggest not-partner thing I see about e and Space is the treatment of my wagon around the claim (they talk more about me than Awaclus though), but that actually fits with the scum-would-always-hammer-town-if-possible argument, since apparently scum!Space would instantly hammer without waiting for me to claim, according to Space… And then there’s these, which put this one on top even without the fact that I'm townreading Awaclus and scumreading e:
  

  I think LL's thing about criticizing Joth for SK-hunting (which was mostly directed at Ash), then scumreading e because e's role was just the sort of thing that the apparent recruiter faction would have is almost too lazy to be scummy. It also misses that e and Ash are kind of linked by e's claimed PR result on Ash, which I don't think he'd feel the need to claim as scum. That is, unless e and Ash are on the same scum/recruiter faction.
  

  If we flip e, it actually tells us virtually nothing about Ash.. so I know you said "sort of tied together", but I find that thinking that way is unhelpful. Better to analyse each player based on their own play.
  

  How does a hypothetical town flip on e not clear Ash again?

If Space is scum, I think e is very likely the partner. Although that’s not as sure the other way around.

I came out of rereading Space and Space interactions liking the Space wagon a million times more than when I started this afternoon. And I did try to find stuff that just really struck me as non-partner interaction with every possible partner, it wasn't there with e. We should still lynch Ash instead, but if we lynch Space and it's correct and I die, remember this.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Also I don't know how the hell I can be said to have not engaged with Space's scumhunting, I've said more about it than anyone else, I just didn't want to go back through and establish which wagons I thought were valid and which I didn't because I fundamentally disagree with the premise of at least the most major wagon she considered and wanted to focus on a couple other things. And I did end up talking specifics anyway, despite what she implied.

The specific request from earlier would not be the work of minutes, it's the work of redoing all of Space's work and looking at the context of the game around those points and seeing which are wagons I think scum would have hammered on, and then redrawing the conclusions, which I don't think is the most valuable use of my time.

You don't get to accuse me of not engaging for not being willing to go through and pick every nit.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

This was never addressed

I'm not accusing you of making up wagons, and I wasn't inclined to check those either, I was saying that reading the post, your constraints were presented way more forcefully than is justified.

AND you filter everything at the end by #1505, which is before Ash clarifies that he is hated forever. You give that wagon an enormous amount of weight in how you present your analysis.

And doing so removes nearly all the Space scumteams from the summary list at the end, which is what most people are going to look at if they don't take time to go through it carefully.

You then throw in a remark about not caring about hated, but that constraint isn't nearly worth that amount of weight if scum aren't assuming Ash is hated. When you wrote the post this had already come out, but not at the time of that wagon.

[jotheonah]

I’m basically sold on everything UoS just said.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

EBWOP

If we lynch Space and she flips scum, come back to this:

• Awaclus — Space does defend Awaclus when Awaclus is getting off LaLight on Day 2 in a pretty significant way, and then Space votes mail-mi. On the other hand, as Space herself pointed out, a Space + Awaclus scumteam would have had a few chances to hammer me and reasonable cover for doing so. At the start of the day it felt like absolutely everyone was okay with my lynch, so there would have been plenty of cover for this, but I think Space didn't realize it was LYLO at the time, and is probably a better scum player than she's making apparently anyone out to be.

[2.71828.....]

I am ready and willing to vote ashersky today for a lynch, would prefer to follow through and lynch space.

Also, I totally spent all that time building a case and started the space wagon because they are my partner....right.....

[Awaclus]

I didn't realize it was LyLo until Glooble mentioned it.

[jotheonah]

I am ready and willing to vote ashersky today for a lynch, would prefer to follow through and lynch space.

Also, I totally spent all that time building a case and started the space wagon because they are my partner....right.....

You are, in fact, a good enough player to pull off such a bus.

[2.71828.....]

As scum, I want to lynch ashersky here. It is a free lynch that a bunch of people (including ashersky) have been offering up. The whole "Ash stays double hated" could even be a ploy to get me and my partner to place two quick votes tomorrow if a mislynch does get pushed through.

Then game over.

This is another reason I think space has been dancing around the ashersky lynch. They know it is best for their scum faction, but don't want to get too excited about it. So they vote jotheonah, so they vote UoS. But I am sure they would vote ashersky to support town

[2.71828.....]

I am ready and willing to vote ashersky today for a lynch, would prefer to follow through and lynch space.

Also, I totally spent all that time building a case and started the space wagon because they are my partner....right.....

You are, in fact, a good enough player to pull off such a bus.

And thanks. You are wrong here, but let's see a flip then let it play out, why don't we

[2.71828.....]

If we lynch Space and she flips scum, come back to this:

Assume a Space + LL scumteam, who is the 3rd partner:

• WestCoastDidds — Ruling out as outlined previously
  
• ashersky — Aside from everyone's townread on Ash, Space calls out Ash’s plan for delaying the game really early in a way that I think would have been really easy for scum Space/LL/Ash to just let lie, it gets in the way of what Ash is doing but it's not the kind of distancing people usually think of, also Ash’s #1739, I don't think Ash has LaLight's bad habit, and the thought isn't oterwise out there, don't see scumAsh planting the thought that her partner might have done the NK, even though I wouldn't be surprised if she says she totally would do such a thing, I don't think the thought of planting that suspicion occurs, but mostly the first thing
• jotheonah — When Joth started to lose her tunnel on me, Space argues in #1412 that “likely mislynch” doesn’t necessarily follow from odd one out, she argues with Joth’s argument here, which would be absolutely bizarre from a Joth/Space scumteam when one of them has been pushing me hard and the other was sort of vaguely on me.
• Glooble — #1500 and Space reacting to it in the next post, this one isn’t as strong as the other stuff, but I’d still be really surprised if this was the team. I think it's a stronger non-partner interaction than it first looks like.

• Awaclus — Space does defend Awaclus when Awaclus is getting off mail-mi on Day 2 in a pretty significant way, and then Space votes mail-mi. On the other hand, as Space herself pointed out, a Space + Awaclus scumteam would have had a few chances to hammer me and reasonable cover for doing so. At the start of the day it felt like absolutely everyone was okay with my lynch, so there would have been plenty of cover for this, but I think Space didn't realize it was LYLO at the time, and is probably a better scum player than she's making apparently anyone out to be.
• 2.71828..... — The biggest not-partner thing I see about e and Space is the treatment of my wagon around the claim (they talk more about me than Awaclus though), but that actually fits with the scum-would-always-hammer-town-if-possible argument, since apparently scum!Space would instantly hammer without waiting for me to claim, according to Space… And then there’s these, which put this one on top even without the fact that I'm townreading Awaclus and scumreading e:
  

  I think LL's thing about criticizing Joth for SK-hunting (which was mostly directed at Ash), then scumreading e because e's role was just the sort of thing that the apparent recruiter faction would have is almost too lazy to be scummy. It also misses that e and Ash are kind of linked by e's claimed PR result on Ash, which I don't think he'd feel the need to claim as scum. That is, unless e and Ash are on the same scum/recruiter faction.
  

  If we flip e, it actually tells us virtually nothing about Ash.. so I know you said "sort of tied together", but I find that thinking that way is unhelpful. Better to analyse each player based on their own play.
  

  How does a hypothetical town flip on e not clear Ash again?

If Space is scum, I think e is very likely the partner. Although that’s not as sure the other way around.

I came out of rereading Space and Space interactions liking the Space wagon a million times more than when I started this afternoon. And I did try to find stuff that just really struck me as non-partner interaction with every possible partner, it wasn't there with e. We should still lynch Ash instead, but if we lynch Space and it's correct and I die, remember this.

Also, setting up tomorrow's lynch is scummy

[UmbrageOfSnow]

How is setting up tomorrow's lynch scummy if it's conditional upon correctly lynching scum?

And I did miss the big case in my reread. That's my bad. I think I must have used an old ;all link I had in an open tab instead of the newer one by accident.  That does change that post further, I still find the e quotes I quoted scummy, but if I subtract out the confbias that probably puts Awaclus as the most likely partner for Space.

And I think I'd still rather lynch e than Space, but Ash before either and obviously any of them before myself, however stupid I feel at this moment.

[ashersky]

I appreciate UoS’s efforts there. Reminds me s lot of town UoS from back in the day.

I haven’t seen anything to show it’s better to gun for scum today.

vote: ash

Sorry I didn’t get scum on D1, and possibly played my role suboptimally. My general reads list I last posted is basically accurate, although UoS gained town points in the meantime.

Any scum kill will help someone make up their mind about tomorrow’s lynch, and a scum non-kill just keeps more town alive. I would push for full claims tomorrow, and especially the other Anaander.

[ashersky]

I wish having been lynched had reset my hated counter. Would be a lovely surprise if it did.

[Awaclus]

Vote: ash

[2.71828.....]

Vote: Ash

[faust]

Day 4 Final Vote Count

jotheonah (1): UmbrageOfSnow
SpaceAnemone (2): jotheonah, WestCoastDidds
UmbrageOfSnow (1): SpaceAnemone
ashersky (3): ashersky, Awaclus, 2.71828.....

Not Voting (1): Glooble

With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

[faust]

"Captain Hetnys, you stand accused of using excessive force against unarmed citizens, and of dealing with an enemy of the Radch. How do you plead?"

"Guilty", said Captain Hetnys.

ashersky has been lynched! She was Captain Hetnys, the Radch-aligned Triggered (Hated/Macho) 1-shot Day Vigilante.

Thread locked!

Night 4 begins now and lasts until February 15, 2019, 04:00:00 am. Night actions are due within 47 hours.

[faust]

Fosyf Denche's dinner parties were a welcome constant in these tumultuous times. Despite the uproar caused on the planet by rioting field workers, things on the Station remained relatively calm, and Fosyf was pleased to see Administrator Celar and Eminence Ifian among the guests.

Fosyf was all the more displeased when some lowly officer from Celar's staff interrupted the party. Ever since there had been concerns about the trustworthiness of AIs, important messages were delivered by runner. A very archaic custom, in Fosyf's opinion. The officer knelt next to Celar and whispered something. It was occasions like these when Fosyf was pleased about her implants that let her access information from all the nanocameras and wiretaps installed in her house.

Glooble has been killed! She was Translator Dlique, the Radch-aligned Triggered (Nexus/Temporary Treestumper).

UmbrageOfSnow takes one vote less to lynch today.

Day 5 begins!

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting (6): SpaceAnemone, jotheonah, Awaclus, 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on February 22, 2019, 04:00:00 am.

[2.71828.....]

Ok, doctor, tell me why you are alive

[2.71828.....]

Also, mass claim should probably happen.

My proposed order:
UoS
Space
Awaclus
Joth
e
WCD