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Author Topic: Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)  (Read 243 times)

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nasmith99

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Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)
« on: December 29, 2018, 11:22:45 pm »
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Online, I replaced an estate into a pair of experiments and neither got topdecked. I was expecting the one that replace gained to get topdecked, while the other would be in the discard pile. Why doesn't the first experiment get topdecked even though it was gained directly by replace?
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Chris is me

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Re: Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2018, 12:10:34 am »
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The first Experiment is covered up by the second Experiment, so Replace can't find the first Experiment anymore. That's why it loses track of it.
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Dingan

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Re: Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2018, 04:31:52 am »
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To elaborate, the first Experiment's on-gain stuff happens before that first Experiment is gained, i.e. before the Replace's on-gain instructions apply. So it's covered up before Replace says what to do with it, hence Replace loses track of it ... I think.
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Donald X.

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Re: Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2018, 04:39:28 am »
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To elaborate, the first Experiment's on-gain stuff happens before that first Experiment is gained, i.e. before the Replace's on-gain instructions apply. So it's covered up before Replace says what to do with it, hence Replace loses track of it ... I think.
Correct. Replace doesn't gain the card directly onto your deck, it looks for it in your discard pile and moves it. The second Experiment covers up the first Experiment before that, and Replace can no longer move the first Experiment.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2018, 10:59:57 am »
+2

To elaborate, the first Experiment's on-gain stuff happens before that first Experiment is gained, i.e. before the Replace's on-gain instructions apply. So it's covered up before Replace says what to do with it, hence Replace loses track of it ... I think.

The first part is wrong; it doesn't happen before it is gained. It happens after it is gained; after it is already in your discard pile. But it happens before you continue on with the rest of Replace.

-Play Replace
----Trash a card from your hand
----Gain an Experiment (it goes to your discard pile)
-------Experiment's on-gain triggers, gain another Experiment (it goes to your discard pile)
----If the gained card (the first Experiment) is an Action or Treasure, put it on your deck. But it's been covered up, so it can't move.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 11:02:44 am by GendoIkari »
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Jeebus

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Re: Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2018, 01:51:38 pm »
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I'm just working on all this stuff now actually.

Replace and Summon gain a card and then move it. (I think they are the only ones.)

If they gain a card that has a when-gain ability to gain another card, the first card is covered (unless the two cards go to different places of course), and Replace/Summon lose track of it.

Also, Watchtower (etc) can move the gained card right after it's gained, also causing Replace/Summon to lose track.
Cards that can move a card right after it's gained: Cargo Ship, Changeling, Innovation, Royal Seal,  Tracker, Travelling Fair, Watchtower, Inn (itself), Villa (itself), Blessed Village (itself with certain Boons), Cursed Village (itself with certain Hexes)

Chris is me

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Re: Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2018, 07:26:36 pm »
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I'm just working on all this stuff now actually.

Replace and Summon gain a card and then move it. (I think they are the only ones.)

If they gain a card that has a when-gain ability to gain another card, the first card is covered (unless the two cards go to different places of course), and Replace/Summon lose track of it.

Also, Watchtower (etc) can move the gained card right after it's gained, also causing Replace/Summon to lose track.
Cards that can move a card right after it's gained: Cargo Ship, Changeling, Innovation, Royal Seal,  Tracker, Travelling Fair, Watchtower, Inn (itself), Villa (itself), Blessed Village (itself with certain Boons), Cursed Village (itself with certain Hexes)

Death Cart always moves itself after being gained - it moves to an un-trackable part of the discard pile, which for effects like Summon might as well be a different place.
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Jeebus

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Re: Replace + Experiment (lose track rule)
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2018, 07:53:07 pm »
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Death Cart always moves itself after being gained - it moves to an un-trackable part of the discard pile, which for effects like Summon might as well be a different place.

Death Cart is not in the category of Watchtower, if that's what you meant. It's in the category of cards that gain on when-gain, like Experiment. Death Cart could be gained to your hand or deck. The Ruins would still go to your discard, so Death Cart would not be covered.
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