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Author Topic: Research is not fun  (Read 1006 times)

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faust

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Research is not fun
« on: December 19, 2018, 11:45:56 am »
0

Ever wanted a trasher that combined the economic unreliability of Salvager and Amulet's potential to skip a shuffle if you draw it on the wrong turn? No? Really not? That sounds like a terrible idea?

...
...

Well, still, Research has got you covered!
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LastFootnote

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2018, 03:31:42 pm »
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Yeah, I don't think I was ever a big fan of Research. It's meant to give you some of the fun of Apprentice outside of Alchemy, but I don't think it actually does that. I think of it like Raze, where I use it to non-terminally trash Estates, but then what? On the other hand, I've come around on Raze. Maybe I'll eventually like Research too.
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Holunder9

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2018, 03:42:09 pm »
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It is OKish as a trasher but you cannot use it as well to draw was Apprentice. There is the tempo issue due to it being a Duration and the setting aside which is relatively bad (compared to Apprentice) if you trash something like Gold for draw in the endgame.
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Awaclus

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2018, 03:45:04 pm »
+5

I don't like how swingy it is in the early game, but overall I think it is pretty fun. Setting up cards for the next turn is probably the most interesting cost-based TfB effect.
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jomini

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2018, 07:44:14 pm »
+1

Its a non-terminal copper trasher. That is not exactly bad. For a lot of boards, trashing a copper is pretty close to the functional equivalent of gaining a Lab. I would buy it a lot of time even if it couldn't trash estates.

Frankly I like the missing the shuffle aspect. It makes it more strategic to determine if I want the stronger benefit now of a big next hand and higher $ density next shuffle, or if I want the decrease in shuffle time from "gaining a second lab" next shuffle. I would say something like 80% of the time it is trash the estate, but for the boards where it is debatable it is non-trivial strategic choice and tactical play.

Yeah it sucks T4 compared to T3 ... but that is a bunch of cards at this point. Guardian is vastly worse on a $4/$3 opening that a $3/4. Hag on T3 is vastly better than Hag on T4 (for either player). Messenger on T3 is also better, and let's not even think about stuff like Smithy or Courtyard or basically any decent terminal draw bar Gear & friends.

Frankly I like the challenge of using it as sole draw. Uncommon. Requires a lot of work to make a winning move. But can make for huge upside potential with good planning.
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Chappy7

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 01:22:55 pm »
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I haven't had a good chance to get a feel for how good it is in many circumstances, but I've actually had lots of fun with it.  Setting up a huge turn like Tactition is pretty fun.  Sure it isn't great as a trasher, but it has its uses.  Either way I have a blast with it.
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ackmondual

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2018, 02:06:44 am »
+2

Well, I figured out all the way back in high school that research wasn't fun  :P


Here, FWIW, it's one of the only 2 Duration cards in the set (Renaissance), so it would "tick that box" for Duration fans.  Otherwise, it may be "non-standard" in function, but it setting up the next turn does create some intrigue (even more so than your typical Duration card already does).
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Awaclus

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2018, 02:29:14 am »
+9

it setting up the next turn does create some intrigue

Setting up the next turn creates some seaside.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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ackmondual

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2019, 10:08:06 pm »
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it setting up the next turn does create some intrigue

Setting up the next turn creates some seaside.
Which leads to Adventures, our own Empires, the dark of Nocturne, and a Renaissance when the light returns!
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ipofanes

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2019, 04:49:44 am »
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I haven't had a good chance to get a feel for how good it is in many circumstances, but I've actually had lots of fun with it.  Setting up a huge turn like Tactition is pretty fun.  Sure it isn't great as a trasher, but it has its uses.  Either way I have a blast with it.

Recently I had a game with cursers, Rats and Research. Alternating two Researches would lend to quite some consistency to draw your other Research with another Rat next turn, so what you are getting is a lesser Double Tactician setting without the forced discard.
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Chris is me

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Re: Research is not fun
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2019, 08:10:09 am »
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Research isn't great, but I like it in the games where you desperately need to increase your handsize. Played a weird game with a good gainer and a pair of research's where it let you do engine-ish stuff that you otherwise couldn't.
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