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[tlloyd]

Artisans' Guild
Action
+1 Card
"Choose One:
     +2 Actions
     +1 Card, +1 Action
     +2 Cards"

The card can be a Village, a Smithy, or a Laboratory. Because it lets you choose based on what you need at the time, and because it draws one card before it makes you choose, it is strictly superior to any of those three, which suggests that it should cost at least $6. It is stronger than Nobles, but doesn't provide VP. It seems underpowered at $7, although throwing in a coin bonus could fix that.

I'm pretty sure that all of my other card ideas have been attacks, so this was my attempt to go in a different direction. As for the name, I was going for some type of village where you might find a Laboratory or a Smithy. No intent to rip off the forthcoming expansion.

[chogg]

I like it!  Could be very fun with King's Court: maybe the best non-terminal drawer?

[RisingJaguar]

Yeah $6 is a good price I would think as for the exact reasons you mentioned.  I have a feeling its awfully close to being a trap card in most scenarios, quite similar to nobles, because it doesn't look self-sufficient.  But the flexibility makes it properly priced at $6. 

I think it's only bested by Hunting party only because HP works SO well by itself.  This looks like an amazing add on to a non-fishing village engine. 

[tlloyd]

I like it!  Could be very fun with King's Court: maybe the best non-terminal drawer?

I don't know about best, but it would be insane with King's Court (which is probably a reason to forego the coin bonus and keep the card priced at $6).

[tlloyd]

Yeah $6 is a good price I would think as for the exact reasons you mentioned.  I have a feeling its awfully close to being a trap card in most scenarios, quite similar to nobles, because it doesn't look self-sufficient.  But the flexibility makes it properly priced at $6. 

I think it's only bested by Hunting party only because HP works SO well by itself.  This looks like an amazing add on to a non-fishing village engine.

I have mixed feelings on whether you could call this a trap. On the one hand, it's at worst a better Laboratory--and Lab is widely acknowledged as a card that very rarely hurts your deck and helps in most circumstances. Add in the fact that this card combines Lab's reliability with a good deal of flexibility, and I'd argue you've got yourself a very useful engine card.

On the other hand, at a cost of $6 this card competes with Gold, whereas Lab is frequently a great pickup in those hands that fall just short of $6. And if you end up using this card as a village very often, then boy was that an expensive village. It's hard to build an engine with such expensive components, especially if you're passing on Golds in order to buy them. Nobles is similarly problematic, but at least you are accumulating VP while you build your engine.

So if it would be a trap, do you have any suggestions on how it could be improved/fixed? Would adding "+1 buy" make the card worthwhile at $6 without bumping it up to $7?

Just to go completely crazy, what if the card cost $7 and read as above, plus the following: "Choose one: +1 coin; +1 buy; or trash one card from your hand."

[RisingJaguar]

So if it would be a trap, do you have any suggestions on how it could be improved/fixed?

The way I take it is, that such a card with this amount of flexibility, is going to be a trap or too overpowered.  Now its not a problem that its a trap, its just like this shiny card to newer player.  For example, Laboratory isn't that great in BM, nor is loading up on Nobles in BM.  That's where the trap comes in, where people use it in a BM (or non-engine) setting.  (I assume) that's not the point of this card.

So for suggestions on how to make it not a trap, I have none because it 'should' be a trap to those that don't see the card properly, like any card.  Improving/fixing it for general play, I think if it were a card, this is about as close as it gets.  Can't be $5, can't attach money to it, sounds good for what its supposed to do.  The only tinkering is the whole +card first or choose altogether (I agree it needs the +card first).

[tlloyd]

So if it would be a trap, do you have any suggestions on how it could be improved/fixed?

The way I take it is, that such a card with this amount of flexibility, is going to be a trap or too overpowered.  Now its not a problem that its a trap, its just like this shiny card to newer player.  For example, Laboratory isn't that great in BM, nor is loading up on Nobles in BM.  That's where the trap comes in, where people use it in a BM (or non-engine) setting.  (I assume) that's not the point of this card.

So for suggestions on how to make it not a trap, I have none because it 'should' be a trap to those that don't see the card properly, like any card.  Improving/fixing it for general play, I think if it were a card, this is about as close as it gets.  Can't be $5, can't attach money to it, sounds good for what its supposed to do.  The only tinkering is the whole +card first or choose altogether (I agree it needs the +card first).

I appreciate your thoughts, and I agree with you. Cards shouldn't be always great or always terrible. What about adding + buy? Would that be enough but not too much at $6? My thought is that if you're going to take this over Gold, you'd better be building an engine. And that always benefits from additional buys.

[LastFootnote]

It seems just right at $6 the way it is now. No need to add extra coins or buys. It may be an expensive engine component, but that's fine. You shouldn't try to build an engine entirely out of this card anyhow. You probably just want one or two to lubricate your existing engine.

[tlloyd]

It seems just right at $6 the way it is now. No need to add extra coins or buys. It may be an expensive engine component, but that's fine. You shouldn't try to build an engine entirely out of this card anyhow. You probably just want one or two to lubricate your existing engine.

Excellent point. Must...resist...desire to...make this card... do everything...

[chogg]

On the other hand, at a cost of $6 this card competes with Gold, whereas Lab is frequently a great pickup in those hands that fall just short of $6. And if you end up using this card as a village very often, then boy was that an expensive village.

True, but unlike every other village, you would never use this as a village unless you had two terminals to play(*).  So, an expensive village, but an exceptionally useful one.

(*) (Modulo some reshuffle control, of course.)

[RisingJaguar]

It seems just right at $6 the way it is now. No need to add extra coins or buys. It may be an expensive engine component, but that's fine. You shouldn't try to build an engine entirely out of this card anyhow. You probably just want one or two to lubricate your existing engine.

Excellent point. Must...resist...desire to...make this card... do everything...

Haha, it is very tempting to do so.  If you were to tact on a +buy, it probably should be to the village portion (worker's village) so its not overly strong and two it fits more with your idea.  I hope I'm not coming too negative, as an engine builder, I do like this idea. 

[tlloyd]

It seems just right at $6 the way it is now. No need to add extra coins or buys. It may be an expensive engine component, but that's fine. You shouldn't try to build an engine entirely out of this card anyhow. You probably just want one or two to lubricate your existing engine.

Excellent point. Must...resist...desire to...make this card... do everything...

Haha, it is very tempting to do so.  If you were to tact on a +buy, it probably should be to the village portion (worker's village) so its not overly strong and two it fits more with your idea.  I hope I'm not coming too negative, as an engine builder, I do like this idea.

Not at all. I appreciate the feedback. Now we've just got to convince Donald to add this to the Guilds expansion!

[Kahryl]

I had a similar idea for a card.

Magician
$6
Reveal up to three cards from your hand. For each card revealed..
..If it is a victory card, +1 card
..If it is a treasure card, $1
..If it is an action card, +1 action

This could almost be a $7 because it basically always gives you what you need. +actions to play action cards, +$ in big money decks, +cards to sort past your green.

I've always liked the "strike a card for its essence" theme, but Tribute's effect is impossible to really plan out yourself and Ironworks's effect is so weak it only really matters to make it sometimes nonterminal.



As for the OP's card, I'm not sure I would pay $6 for that.  I can't see ever using the smithy effect - if I need a bunch of actions I'll play the village effect, otherwise I'll use it as a lab.

[WanderingWinder]

How about:

Do this thrice:
Choose one: +1 card or +1 action
A little bit better than what we have, but not so much. You know, this card is playable but still a bit weak for 6.

OR

Do this thrice:
Choose one: +1 card, +1 action, +$1, or +1 buy

So ironically, this can't be a market! But it can be smithy, lab, village, peddler, terminal gold, non-terminal silver, woodcutter, etc. etc. etc. I like it, but I wonder about $6. I think it's probably going to be better than most of the 6s most of the time, worse than goons. Well, printable I think, but maybe a bit strong.

[O]

I think the card is fine as is. A nobles-like card that reads choose one: Village or Smithy effects would certainly be acceptably priced at 5$. Adding in a lab effect and I think that it becomes a versatile card useful in almost any engine at 6$. It's subpar in big money decks, but so is, say, festival (where its really barely better than a woodcutter)

[tlloyd]

How about:

Do this thrice:
Choose one: +1 card or +1 action
A little bit better than what we have, but not so much. You know, this card is playable but still a bit weak for 6.

Unless you already have three action cards in hand with no villages, you are unlikely to use this card as for +3 actions. Therefore, in almost all case you will take +1 card as your first choice, making your card similar to mine so far. Thus the real difference in this suggestion is that you break down the second step into two choices, allowing an even more-informed final choice. But you only get a more-informed choice if your second choice is also to draw a card, which means that this in most cases boils down to you this: you get to draw a card before you decide whether to use the Village option (like my card), and you get to draw two cards before you decide whether to use the Lab option or the Smithy option. So you're right that it's slightly better, but I think I prefer the simplicity of my wording. If you think your version is underpowered at $6, then I take it you think mine is even more underpowered.

Do this thrice:
Choose one: +1 card, +1 action, +$1, or +1 buy

So ironically, this can't be a market! But it can be smithy, lab, village, peddler, terminal gold, non-terminal silver, woodcutter, etc. etc. etc. I like it, but I wonder about $6. I think it's probably going to be better than most of the 6s most of the time, worse than goons. Well, printable I think, but maybe a bit strong.

I get a headache just imagining trying to keep track of this when it's King's Court-ed. I think you'd have to call this card Engineer.

[WanderingWinder]

How about:

Do this thrice:
Choose one: +1 card or +1 action
A little bit better than what we have, but not so much. You know, this card is playable but still a bit weak for 6.

Unless you already have three action cards in hand with no villages, you are unlikely to use this card as for +3 actions. Therefore, in almost all case you will take +1 card as your first choice, making your card similar to mine so far. Thus the real difference in this suggestion is that you break down the second step into two choices, allowing an even more-informed final choice. But you only get a more-informed choice if your second choice is also to draw a card, which means that this in most cases boils down to you this: you get to draw a card before you decide whether to use the Village option (like my card), and you get to draw two cards before you decide whether to use the Lab option or the Smithy option. So you're right that it's slightly better, but I think I prefer the simplicity of my wording. If you think your version is underpowered at $6, then I take it you think mine is even more underpowered.

Do this thrice:
Choose one: +1 card, +1 action, +$1, or +1 buy

So ironically, this can't be a market! But it can be smithy, lab, village, peddler, terminal gold, non-terminal silver, woodcutter, etc. etc. etc. I like it, but I wonder about $6. I think it's probably going to be better than most of the 6s most of the time, worse than goons. Well, printable I think, but maybe a bit strong.

I get a headache just imagining trying to keep track of this when it's King's Court-ed. I think you'd have to call this card Engineer.

Oh yeah, the last one is kicks and giggles. I do think yours is underpowered for $6. And I actually think my wording is simpler 

[tlloyd]

Oh yeah, the last one is kicks and giggles. I do think yours is underpowered for $6. And I actually think my wording is simpler 

Yours appears simpler, but has two complicating factors. First, it presents the card as making three choices between two options, rather than a single choice among three options. It amounts to pretty much the same thing, but seems much more like a King's Court-ed Pawn. Second, it uses the word "thrice."   

[petrie911]

Another possible wording which gives almost the same effect, but with a slightly different flavor, is.

+3 Cards

Discard up to 2 cards from your hand.  +1 Action per card discarded.

Inspired by the card Esquine Foret from Tanto Cuore.

Do this thrice:
Choose one: +1 card, +1 action, +$1, or +1 buy

So ironically, this can't be a market! But it can be smithy, lab, village, peddler, terminal gold, non-terminal silver, woodcutter, etc. etc. etc. I like it, but I wonder about $6. I think it's probably going to be better than most of the 6s most of the time, worse than goons. Well, printable I think, but maybe a bit strong.

I get a headache just imagining trying to keep track of this when it's King's Court-ed. I think you'd have to call this card Engineer.

I'd call it Queen.  Bonus points if you can guess why.

[jonts26]

Another possible wording which gives almost the same effect, but with a slightly different flavor, is.

+3 Cards

Discard up to 2 cards from your hand.  +1 Action per card discarded.

I think this version is a lot stronger. Better than $6. It gives you the ability to draw first and then decide how many actions you want. Also you can discard any card from hand. At it's worst it's an after the fact Stables which can discard green.

[tlloyd]

Another possible wording which gives almost the same effect, but with a slightly different flavor, is.

+3 Cards

Discard up to 2 cards from your hand.  +1 Action per card discarded.

I think this version is a lot stronger. Better than $6. It gives you the ability to draw first and then decide how many actions you want. Also you can discard any card from hand. At it's worst it's an after the fact Stables which can discard green.

Plus it discards, which has become very useful with many of the most recent kingdom cards.

[jimjam]

I like it (the original) at $6, though I think it would be rather situational. In some games I think it would end up being an expensive Lab, in others, people would try chaining it with Smithies, which I feel is not as good as BV/Smithy (BV/Smithy is not that good either, yes?). In other words I think it would only shine facilitating some really complex engine.