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Author Topic: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players  (Read 742 times)

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DooWopDJ

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Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« on: December 12, 2018, 04:01:19 pm »
0

While compiling a list of 'materials' I noticed that there were 8 Trade Route player mats, but that it is recommended that only up to 6 players for Dominion.  Was this just an oversight? Has this been discussed anywhere?

Apologies - I meant '8 VP player mats'
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 08:38:00 am by DooWopDJ »
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Watno

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2018, 04:27:18 pm »
+1

There is only one Trade Route mat.

There are / VP mats in Prosperity however I believe.
The reason is probably there needed to be at least 4, so there would be 5 mats in total. But then the sheet jus got filled up to 8 because there was space and art available.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 04:31:42 pm »
+2

There is only one Trade Route mat.

There are / VP mats in Prosperity however I believe.
The reason is probably there needed to be at least 4, so there would be 5 mats in total. But then the sheet jus got filled up to 8 because there was space and art available.

More accurately, they needed at least 6, which would be 7 mats in total, and then ended up with a total of 9 mats.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 04:34:17 pm »
+1

Related question; does second edition Prosperity still have mats? I don't see any mention of it on the Wiki. Empires does not have mats; right? Which would imply that Donald decided that VP tokens don't need mats; and thus why bother having mats in second edition Prosperity?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2018, 05:11:10 pm »
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I always understood that it was so you could play 2 4-player games simultaneously. That might not be correct though.
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Jeebus

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 06:36:20 pm »
+2

Related question; does second edition Prosperity still have mats? I don't see any mention of it on the Wiki. Empires does not have mats; right? Which would imply that Donald decided that VP tokens don't need mats; and thus why bother having mats in second edition Prosperity?

Actually it was an important rules change that Empires didn't have mats. Or to put it more accurately, it was an important rules change that VP tokens are not put on a mat. Instead, you take VP tokens (and then might put them optionally on something like for instance a VP token mat). That rules change mattered for the version of Possession introduced in Empires.

But then Possession was changed again, so it doesn't matter anymore.

But Prosperity was released in the meantime. I checked now, and yes Prosperity 2E does come with the 8 mats. But the rules for the mats are changed.
Prosperity 1E:
This expansion comes with 8 player mats and VP tokens for use with the Bishop, Goons, and Monument Kingdom cards. [...] A player takes a mat of his choice as soon as he needs one.
"+X VP" - The player takes X VP tokens. [...] When a player first takes VP tokens, he takes a player mat to put them on.

Prosperity 2E:
Prosperity has player mats for tracking VP tokens. You do not have to use one; if you do, take one when you first have VP tokens.
Cards say "+1 VP" (or other amounts) to indicate that a player takes VP tokens.

Donald X.

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 03:23:56 am »
+2

The reason is probably there needed to be at least 4, so there would be 5 mats in total. But then the sheet jus got filled up to 8 because there was space and art available.
There needed to be at least 6 VP mats - the expansions always support 6 players - plus Trade Route makes 7 mats, and so yes there was space on the sheet so there are two more mats and Jay varied the art on all these mats (from existing art) so as to give the extra copies some value.
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DooWopDJ

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 08:43:32 am »
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While I can see what changed in the rules about the VP player mat, I am curious as to how the changes were 'important', as the only difference I can detect is that putting VP on a mat is not 'required'
Thanks Watno for noticing my error and correcting the thread to be about the VP player mat.

Related question; does second edition Prosperity still have mats? I don't see any mention of it on the Wiki. Empires does not have mats; right? Which would imply that Donald decided that VP tokens don't need mats; and thus why bother having mats in second edition Prosperity?

Actually it was an important rules change that Empires didn't have mats. Or to put it more accurately, it was an important rules change that VP tokens are not put on a mat. Instead, you take VP tokens (and then might put them optionally on something like for instance a VP token mat). That rules change mattered for the version of Possession introduced in Empires.

But then Possession was changed again, so it doesn't matter anymore.

But Prosperity was released in the meantime. I checked now, and yes Prosperity 2E does come with the 8 mats. But the rules for the mats are changed.
Prosperity 1E:
This expansion comes with 8 player mats and VP tokens for use with the Bishop, Goons, and Monument Kingdom cards. [...] A player takes a mat of his choice as soon as he needs one.
"+X VP" - The player takes X VP tokens. [...] When a player first takes VP tokens, he takes a player mat to put them on.

Prosperity 2E:
Prosperity has player mats for tracking VP tokens. You do not have to use one; if you do, take one when you first have VP tokens.
Cards say "+1 VP" (or other amounts) to indicate that a player takes VP tokens.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 08:46:10 am by DooWopDJ »
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DooWopDJ

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2018, 09:02:31 am »
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Although I have another follow-up related question.

Why are these mats called "Victory token player mat" and not "Victory Points token player mat"? Sorry that terminology just bugs me.
Thanks
-Doowopdj
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Jeebus

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2018, 09:24:48 am »
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While I can see what changed in the rules about the VP player mat, I am curious as to how the changes were 'important', as the only difference I can detect is that putting VP on a mat is not 'required'

With Possession v.2 (not the current version), the Possessing player got all tokens that the Possessed player would take. This did not include tokens that the Possessed players would put on mats/cards/piles (Pirate Ship tokens, Adventures tokens, and VP tokens and Debt tokens that go on cards/piles). Without the rules change about the mats, it wouldn't have included those VP tokens either.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 09:26:01 am by Jeebus »
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faust

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2018, 11:46:09 am »
+1

While I can see what changed in the rules about the VP player mat, I am curious as to how the changes were 'important', as the only difference I can detect is that putting VP on a mat is not 'required'
Had the rules stayed as in 1E, then that would technically result in players having to put VP tokens they got from Prosperity cards on the mat, and keep VP tokens from Empires cards off the mat.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Donald X.

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Re: Why 8 Trade Route player mats for 6 players
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 03:57:15 pm »
+1

Why are these mats called "Victory token player mat" and not "Victory Points token player mat"? Sorry that terminology just bugs me.
No-one noticing or caring, not sure which. That isn't the kind of thing that has a real reason.
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