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Author Topic: Dominion Wild Lands  (Read 1643 times)

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ClouduHieh

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Dominion Wild Lands
« on: December 07, 2018, 09:42:51 pm »
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Lately Iíve been thinking of another expansion something a little closer to my heart. Anyway hereís the flavor text:

You have acquired so much wealth and land. And it seems there is no limit of more land to acquire. But whatís the point of having all this land. Thereís nothing to do with it all. And many others have nearly as much land as you now. But wait your explorer has just arrived from a long journey. It seems from his report that a ruler far far away, who also has lots of land. Has in his possession lions, tigers, and bears to show off his power. So thatís what we will do but even better. With so much land we build a royal menagerie. We will send even more explorers, adventurers, and naturalists out to capture any animal we can find. Yes it will be dangerous the savanna has an animal that laughs before attacks. And in the jungle there is reports of ruins and temples and cannibals and many may end up as lunch for those tigers. But that is a sacrifice Iím willing to make to bring these to the people. Yes even the common folk will be able to see these animals in person, they can pay with there cats and dogs, the lions will be hungry after all. And then we will truly be the envy of all those around us.

I am planning on having animals in this expansion as Actions. However some of the most endangered will be victory cards. Dogs and cats will be treasure cards. Which you wonít be keeping for very long. After all the lions are hungry. Your probably all thinking why would I put dogs and cats as treasures. Well first of all goat is a treasure in nocturne. Plus thatís what the common folk would use as payment, if they wanted to go the menagerie. And yes some of the dangerous animals will be attack cards.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 12:39:59 am by ClouduHieh »
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teamlyle

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2018, 11:00:58 pm »
+1

At my school, they once had a club to create a fan Dominion expansion called "Dominion: Zoo." It did not go well...
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 11:38:04 pm »
+2

This will be the post where Iíll keep all the cards to start with.

Jungle village

Tiger

Adventurers

Langurs

Golden cat

Red panda

Hyena

Cheetah

Explorer

Giraffe

Zebras

Safari

Gazelle

Wildebeest

Jungle ruins

Gold monkey

Cannibal

The Nile

Nile crocodile

Hippopotamus

Monsoon season

Watering hole

Rickety bridge

Preserve

Cape buffalo

Lion
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 10:37:03 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2018, 02:22:13 am »
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So thereís the first few cards. As you may have noticed there are some cards similar to cornucopia. Cornucopia is my 2nd favorite expansion. One reason is because of the differently named card reward.
Royal menagerie

Dog

Common folk

Miasma Marsh

Mosquito

Mangrove swamp

Lemon shark
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 08:14:37 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2018, 04:40:32 am »
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Jungle Village is pretty good; I'd rather do +1 Action per differently revealed Action card.

Tiger is too good, it is better than Dame Josephine and Sir Destry combined and gets the Giant-like cursing on top of it.

I'd be very careful with unlimited handsize attacks like that of Langurs. Even though it is hard to set up, a deck with 5 Langurs is no fun for the opponents. Note that the only other unlimited handsize discard Attack, Torturer, has a second option for the attacked player.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2018, 10:46:13 am »
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Well the great thing about cards that arenít in the supply. Is they donít have to be at least 10. So I was planning on making Langurs and golden cat at least 5 or 6 each. So you would have to be the only player to gain langurs for everyone else to discard their whole hand. Not likely though. Even in a two player game you would still probably not end up with every langur, maybe 4 of them. And if that was the case you would most likely have to your deck in one turn for it to be devestating to the other player. Which means you would have to have a lot of villages in your and or villagers in order to pull that off. And after all if did still end up with 4 in your hand at the start of the turn, you still would only get to play with one. They donít give out extra actions and they donít let you draw cards. I still plan to have a normal amount of victory cards.

And I just wanted to show a tigers power off by starting off powerful. I might raise the cost or make it +2 Cards instead. Iíll just wait and see what other people think of tiger before I change it.

Also some players may not want to play it too much towards end of the game, so that way their tigers donít kill each other.

And I also might try to make a new type of card that involves just the animals. But I wanted to wait until I have all the animals in the game posted. Plus some are a little harder to do it with like tiger. It would be nice if you could have space for 4 different types just like nocturne has a couple that are 4 different types. Action-attack-spirit-doom or something I think.

Wildlands will cover at least 2 or 3 biomes. And of course not just animals. Jungle village and adventurers arenít animals, so there should be plenty of other cards different  from animals too.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 10:59:28 am by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2018, 11:01:26 am »
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Oh and all animals will be real animals.

Thereís two different golden cats. The Asian golden cat and the African golden cat. Of course not all animals will have their full species name, like the langurs card.
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2018, 05:26:24 am »
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And I just wanted to show a tigers power off by starting off powerful. I might raise the cost or make it +2 Cards instead. Iíll just wait and see what other people think of tiger before I change it.
Just compare Tiger to Nobles, Destry, Josephine and Giant (there is a reason Giant only hits every other time) to realize how crazily overpowered it is.
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2018, 11:28:31 am »
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The adventurers seems like a good card. Maybe golden cat should be moved to ten also. If you have a golden cat in your hand and play adventurers and discard a golden cat you'll get tons of golds and silvers. It would be bad in a colony game though.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2018, 02:03:35 pm »
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Hmm yeah I know tiger is overpowered hmm I might make it just golds for golden cat compared to tunnel golden cat only gives treasure when discarded from your deck. Tunnel gives you gold when discarded from your hand as well. And tiger do you guys think it would be better if it gave +2$ and costed 6$ instead would that help? Cause I would like to get all the facts about the cards before I change and maybe a few more responses about tiger and golden cat before I change them.

Also I havenít had any responses about red panda. Itís sort of like mill. But instead of discarding just 2 cards they have to be different and instead +1 Action itís +2 Cards. Do you think itís fine the way it is. What do guys think? Is it a little better than mill or a little weaker than mill. Of course not that it would be a bad thing if it was stronger cause it would still be harder to get.

And for adventurers do you think I should alter the amount of cards discarded or is it too many cards? Or not enough?

And for langurs I plan to keep it 6 Cards just like the one in nocturne.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 02:11:38 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2018, 06:55:20 pm »
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Just like rats there will be 20 hyenas
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 07:01:15 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2018, 07:00:33 pm »
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AnjinSan

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2018, 07:06:44 pm »
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I like the concept for hyenas.  Like using a pack of hyenas, more deadly when added together in multiples.  Would you want to put a duration on this card, in case you have more hyenas in hands upcoming?  Or a card called Ďcall of the wild...í that let the hyena Ďyelpí to its packmates?  Then if you had a card in discard or your hand you could search for it and add it to the top of your deck..?
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AnjinSan

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2018, 07:09:30 pm »
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Aren’t there natural phenomena like ‘watering hole’ or rainy season or such...where packs will roam until the phenomena changes herd behavior?  How about adding a ‘season’ concept...kind of like a duration but for multiple hands?  The season breaks when someone buys a Duchy is purchased...?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 07:11:19 pm by AnjinSan »
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2018, 04:02:14 pm »
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Just like rats there will be 20 hyenas
Hyena is the same cost as rats but with the gain function. Shouldn't it be more expensive, or does the trashing keep it the same?
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2018, 06:33:59 pm »
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Hyena is the same cost as rats but with the gain function. Shouldn't it be more expensive, or does the trashing keep it the same?

It isn't strictly better because it doesn't have Rats' on-trash bonus. The thing it has instead is also kind of weak, so I think it works at $4.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2018, 09:47:02 pm »
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Right it doesnít have the +1 card when rats is trashed. And the gain ability isnít available until you have trashed a few cards in the same turn with hyena. Thatís why I figured it would still work kept at the same price. It still is as useful as rats cleaning your deck of coppers and estates. The reason why I thought it might be a good thing to gain from the trash eventually was that you might have had to trash something like a silver. This way you might be able to get them back. Rats you couldnít obviously. And rats and hyena in the same game would be epic since they can trash each other.

So you might be able to get a lot of cards that were trashed too. Maybe even other players cards that they lost.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 09:48:51 pm by ClouduHieh »
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2018, 07:41:44 am »
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Who does the art on this?
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2018, 11:33:46 am »
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Random google images mostly, as long as it doesnít say product or for sale ect. And they donít seem to have names attached either.

And once in awhile an artist from deviantart, but I always include their name. And some are from various games Iíve played.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2018, 01:09:34 pm »
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It still is as useful as rats cleaning your deck of coppers and estates.

Rats is not at all good at cleaning your deck of Coppers and Estates... it doesn't remove junk, it just replaces junk with other junk.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2018, 05:08:26 pm »
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Yeah thatís true. And obviously there will be times when you wonít buy a hyena. But that can happen with other cards too. However I once played a game where someone won with deck of almost all rats. He had rats and fortress. And there was the event called training and he put his +1 treasure coin on the rats.

So Iíve been thinking with hyena after the 3rd time played would it work if it also gave you + 2$ in addition to gaining from the trash sorta like a backwards conspirator. And still work as a 4$ costing card?
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2018, 05:33:43 pm »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2018, 06:54:06 pm »
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This looks interesting, but it's probably too swingy. Even with a reasonably diverse deck the chances of getting a measly $1 out of this are still pretty high. I do like the basic idea, but I'm not sure at the moment how I would fix it. I would definitely drop the Duration part though, since that has nothing to do with the rest of the card.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 06:55:27 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2018, 08:03:39 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2018, 01:38:42 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2018, 01:44:14 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2018, 01:45:50 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2018, 01:48:42 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2018, 01:50:08 pm »
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2018, 01:54:26 pm »
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Explorer is overpowered. It is basically Caravan and, if we use a conservative estimate for deck variety, Merchant Ship combined.
Or, to view it from another perspective, even if it did nothing on the second turn it is most often a double or triple Peddler which is too strong for $6.

Zebras is overpowered as well. Of course you rarely want to buy it and gift it to the other players but with any Workshop or Remodel variant (or even just Hermit) you are glad to get a Laboratory that later degenerates into a Fugitive.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2018, 02:03:39 pm »
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So the concern was tiger was stronger than the knights and giant, so I changed it to a $7 costing card from a $5 costing card.

If I made explorer a 7 or 8 costing card would it be better?

« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 02:05:10 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Holunder9

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2018, 02:28:28 pm »
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If I made explorer a 7 or 8 costing card would it be better?
I'd first ask myself why no offical cards that cost $7 or $8 do pure vanilla stuff.

DXV had a Double Peddler that costs $7 during the playtesting of Prosperity and it later became Grand Market. So the official Double Peddlers, Conspirator and Grand Market, are either conditional or hard to get instead of very expensive.

I don't want to sound harsh but I think that you fall into the common trap of designing cards that do too much (and I say this as a guy who is biased towards overcomplexity!) and not comparing them carefully enough with existing cards. Explorer is better than Caravan, Harvest and Merchant Ship; Tiger is Nobles with a Knight/Giant like Attack substituting the Necropolis option.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2018, 03:44:33 pm »
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It's not clear to me when you would ever buy this, due to the when-buy ability. As Holunder said, it's great if you can gain it without buying it then it's great. But to buy it normally is to spend money and a buy on a net gain of nothing at all.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2018, 07:00:31 pm »
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Iíve also removed the curse gaining with tiger, so now how does it look.



I removed the duration part, also I made it more like harvest except with the option of getting to put one of discarded cards back or maybe something else from the discard pile.



I made it so it wouldnít deplete the zebra pile as fast. But still gave a benefit to other players. Letting it be cheaper than laboratory, cause mid-game it will turn into fugitive.

I still havenít gotten any feedback on safari, gazelle and wildebeest, or giraffe.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 07:03:22 pm by ClouduHieh »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2018, 07:53:53 pm »
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For new Zebra, i would change when-buy to when-gain to make it not too powerful with gainers. Also, Donald always chooses gain instead of buy if it can work, for simplicity.

Other than that, I like it. Though there is unclarity about what to do when it is bought from the Black Market. Finally, ďwhen the Zebra pile is emptyĒ should be ďIf the Zebras pile is empty.Ē  The Black Market issue could be fixed by saying ďif there are no Zebras in the supply.Ē
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2018, 09:16:41 pm »
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Why would you need to play a Gazelle from your hand? It already gives +1 Action so you could play a indefinite number of gazelles without that function.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2018, 10:32:04 pm »
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Yes but playing 2 of them in a row turns it into a village. Having a few extra actions could be useful especially if there is no other card that gives out +2 Actions. Playing 2 in a row makes a provisional village. Of course you may not always be able to play it twice in a row.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2018, 10:36:34 pm »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2018, 05:24:47 am »
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Iíve also removed the curse gaining with tiger, so now how does it look.
You can tell yourself that it is Josephine plus Destry with the Attack being arguably nerfed (lower likelihood of hitting vs. giving the Attack player the option to e.g. trash a Silver instead of a $5). Probably OK at the price.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2018, 08:13:33 pm »
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This will be a split pile of 5 each with jungle ruins obviously on top.

Jungle ruins should give you some interesting turns. Youíll be able to trash a copper and than maybe put a silver on top for your next turn. Or if you have other unused actions and another jungle ruins you could get basically trash 2 coppers and still put a silver on top.

And gold monkey is similar to ill gotten gains but you get silvers instead of coppers. Could be useful if you had to discard down to 3 cards via a milita or something.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 08:22:49 pm by ClouduHieh »
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2018, 09:00:07 pm »
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Shouldn't the gold monkey be more expensive. Unless it's a colony game, it works as good as a gold, but with an on curse game. In a colony game the silvers would clog your deck.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 07:26:26 am by LittleFish »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2018, 09:31:19 pm »
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Iíll gotten gains is basically the same card as this except it gives out coppers instead of silvers. And it costs $5 so this has to at least $6
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2018, 10:04:30 pm »
+1

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2018, 01:18:10 am »
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Cannibal should be an Attack card, right? It has the same attack as Pillage.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2018, 10:20:34 am »
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Your right I just forgot to add it.


« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 10:23:22 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2018, 10:28:44 am »
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Shouldn't the gold monkey be more expensive. Unless it's a colony game, it works as good as a gold, but with an on curse game. In a colony game the silvers would clog your deck.

Even in a non-Colony game, you don't want that many Silvers. I think you might always buy one of these over a Gold the first chance you get, but you wouldn't want many, unless the Cursing itself is worth it.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2018, 04:55:10 pm »
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Thatís why it says you may gain a silver to your hand. And it is a split pile. One thing Iíve noticed about split piles is sometimes they never get completely bought up. Like rocks. Catapult wasnít always bought up completely and if it was rocks wasnít always completely bought up. And gladiator and fortune. Fortune wasnít also always bought up. And so gold monkey might not always be bought up completely either. So expert players will probably avoid buying and playing too many. And you could always trash it with jungle ruins later. And besides better to clog your deck with silvers than coppers. And the cool thing about jungle ruins is you could cycle your better treasures so you could have a gold every other turn, if not more than one. And keep your silvers from clogging up your deck.

So what do you guys think if I made gold monkey produce $0 and then gain a gold to your hand. Would that be too powerful for a $6 costing card?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 05:00:50 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2018, 07:54:44 pm »
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Now you do not have to play with the Nile in order to play with this split pile. However there will be other biomes. And when playing with wildlands you will have to play with one biome.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 08:01:24 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2018, 08:03:12 pm »
+1

And I decided to make the biomes the duration color because biomes will effect gameplay throughout the each game.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2018, 08:46:16 pm »
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The hippo should be only Blue. For an example why
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2018, 09:12:38 pm »
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Yes but hippo is also an attack card. And all official reactions are reactions. Iím the only one that has made attack reactions. Yeti in my snowline thread for example. So since itís different I decided to make it different in color as well. After all shemitz allows you to make your own custom colors.

So until thereís an official attack-reaction Card, Iíll be keeping it this color. If the creator of dominion creates one, I will definitely change it to match.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 10:24:27 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2018, 09:16:06 pm »
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I din't realize there wasn't attack reactions.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2018, 10:23:24 pm »
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Yeah I donít of any that exist anyway. So check out yeti in my snowline thread it is also white/blue. It is also a little different, it has an attack, but the reaction is also an attack.

And in my guilds and cornucopia thread there is another attack-Reaction called Firth guild.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2018, 01:44:23 am »
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Even though there both (attacks) dangerous animals. The hippopotamus can block the Nile crocodile. Which is thematic because regardless of how powerful crocodiles are. there afraid of a bull hippopotamus.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2018, 07:59:07 am »
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does it mean cheaper than the card discarded, or cheaper than cannabal?
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2018, 08:19:29 am »
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Nile Crocodile is overpowered, I guess. It can gain anything, even a Colony. You should say "one of the trashed cards".
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2018, 08:34:38 am »
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Nile Crocodile is overpowered, I guess. It can gain anything, even a Colony. You should say "one of the trashed cards".
It can only gain a Colony if somebody else has previously trashed a Colony via a different card. Crocodile cannot trash Victory cards.

I don't think it is that strong. Sure, you have to test it and it might be best at $5 but it is not crazy as there is rarely non-Victory stuff that costs more than 6 whereas there is a lot of non-Estates junk that costs less than 3. So relative to Knights this will often help the opponents. Sure, later in the game you can trash&gain, like 2 Rogues in one, but note that the very presence of Crocodile incentivzes you to (if this is feasible) thin less and sift more.

I think that this is the most interesting trashing Attack that CouduHieh has posted so far as it differs significantly from existing cards.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2018, 09:09:34 am »
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does it mean cheaper than the card discarded, or cheaper than cannabal?

Not to mention there may be more than one card discarded. Does it mean cheaper than all cards discarded? Any one of them? Cannibal itself? Also, "from the supply" can be dropped.

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2018, 09:49:07 am »
+2

Yes but hippo is also an attack card. And all official reactions are reactions. Iím the only one that has made attack reactions. Yeti in my snowline thread for example. So since itís different I decided to make it different in color as well. After all shemitz allows you to make your own custom colors.

So until thereís an official attack-reaction Card, Iíll be keeping it this color. If the creator of dominion creates one, I will definitely change it to match.

But there are action-attack-duration cards, like enchantress and bridge troll, and they aren't white-orange.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2018, 10:30:51 am »
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Yeah I know that there are durations that attacks but still orange. The main reason why I want it white blue is because I want everyone to just by looking at it from afar that this is unusual reaction. And the only way to do that is to add a color, and the main reason white was chosen is because attack was originally chosen as the same color as action. Plus it looks really cool on my yeti! Almost all of my cards are now in the first page of snowline thread. You guys should take a look at that thread if you havenít seen that one yet. Its got a lot reserves and durations along with a new type called defeat. (Opposite of victory)
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2018, 10:34:37 am »
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Yes if I chose to discard a province with cannabal I could get to golds. I am losing the cannibal after all so Iím getting to attack if thereís other players it might be more devastating for the other 2 players, but Iíd also replace a cannibal with gold and get another gold for my troubles.

Still the odds that it would hit a player would be towards the end of game. The best choice would still be a gold, assuming there was at least one other 5$ costing card.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 10:40:49 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2018, 11:42:25 am »
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Once again you wonít need monsoon season in order to play with watering hole. Also when playing with wild lands you should randomly choose a biome before the kingdom cards in the supply.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2018, 12:07:51 pm »
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Without the "discard a card" part, Watering Hole would be probably a slightly weaker version of Poacher... the option to gain a Silver is the only thing it does that Poacher doesn't; and if you don't have at least 3 differently named cards in hand; it's really bad. So making you discard a card first, especially if Monsoon Season is not in the game, makes it way too weak... it might actually be balanced at ; it's similar to Pawn.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2018, 03:32:53 pm »
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I actually based it off of oasis.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2018, 06:06:27 pm »
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Nile Crocodile is overpowered, I guess. It can gain anything, even a Colony. You should say "one of the trashed cards".
It can only gain a Colony if somebody else has previously trashed a Colony via a different card. Crocodile cannot trash Victory cards.

I don't think it is that strong. Sure, you have to test it and it might be best at $5 but it is not crazy as there is rarely non-Victory stuff that costs more than 6 whereas there is a lot of non-Estates junk that costs less than 3. So relative to Knights this will often help the opponents. Sure, later in the game you can trash&gain, like 2 Rogues in one, but note that the very presence of Crocodile incentivzes you to (if this is feasible) thin less and sift more.

I think that this is the most interesting trashing Attack that CouduHieh has posted so far as it differs significantly from existing cards.
Play with Remodel, Swindler, Salvager, Apprentice, or a kind of thing. Although you use Crocodile and one of them is rare (around 15%), its pover governs the game.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2018, 12:36:23 pm »
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Nile Crocodile is overpowered, I guess. It can gain anything, even a Colony. You should say "one of the trashed cards".
It can only gain a Colony if somebody else has previously trashed a Colony via a different card. Crocodile cannot trash Victory cards.

I don't think it is that strong. Sure, you have to test it and it might be best at $5 but it is not crazy as there is rarely non-Victory stuff that costs more than 6 whereas there is a lot of non-Estates junk that costs less than 3. So relative to Knights this will often help the opponents. Sure, later in the game you can trash&gain, like 2 Rogues in one, but note that the very presence of Crocodile incentivzes you to (if this is feasible) thin less and sift more.

I think that this is the most interesting trashing Attack that CouduHieh has posted so far as it differs significantly from existing cards.
Play with Remodel, Swindler, Salvager, Apprentice, or a kind of thing. Although you use Crocodile and one of them is rare (around 15%), its pover governs the game.
Remodel and Salvage only trash Provinces or Colonies in the endgame for tempo reasons. Apprentice and Province/Colony seems pretty borderline so only Swindler is a thing. I don't think that this warrants restricting Crocodile from only gained trashed cards instead of cards from the trash which seems more fun due to a potentially larger selection in multiplayer.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2018, 01:20:09 pm »
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Yeah I don't really see how Remodelling Province to Province then regaining the Province is much different from Remodelling Gold to Province and regaining the Gold.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2018, 09:40:47 am »
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does it mean cheaper than the card discarded, or cheaper than cannabal?

Not to mention there may be more than one card discarded. Does it mean cheaper than all cards discarded? Any one of them? Cannibal itself? Also, "from the supply" can be dropped.
I reposted the question because I don't think anybody saw this.


Also, the "from the supply" is important so you can't gain Travellers or Spirit cards.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2018, 10:27:08 am »
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Right. You canít gain red panda for instance with the cannibal.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2018, 12:47:09 pm »
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does it mean cheaper than the card discarded, or cheaper than cannabal?

Can someone answer this?
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2018, 01:31:53 pm »
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Well with cannibal I was planning on it meaning cheaper than the card that was trashed, hence cannibal.

However what do you guys think, would it be interesting or too wonky or too powerful if it meant cheaper than the highest costing card discarded? Which could mean discard your platinum and I gain 2 provinces.

Or do you guys prefer my original plan, so you canít use it to gain another cannibal or a gold.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2018, 04:20:13 pm »
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Make cannibal cost or and make it be less than the discarded card
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2018, 05:34:37 pm »
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What does everyone else think If cannibal costed $8 or $7 to gain cheaper cards than a discarded card?
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2018, 06:39:50 pm »
+1

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2018, 11:25:06 pm »
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I really like this idea - Bridge but cheaper and weaker. The Treasure-discarding thing is very clever; you have to sacrifice raw $ to get the lower prices. I would definitely drop the +1 Card as it's awkward and doesn't fit with the rest of the card. I'd also make it reduce costs by 1 instead of 2. It's a $2 card so it can't be too strong.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2018, 11:51:09 pm »
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Chuckes yeah it is called bridge and bridge doesnít have +1 Card however highway does and itís the same thing as bridge. I will change it to only $1 less however instead of $2 less.

And yes a rickety bridge that could break at anytime so you discard (heavy) treasure before you cross thatís the theme for the card.

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2018, 08:13:23 am »
+1

Also, the "from the supply" is important so you can't gain Travellers or Spirit cards.

No this is incorrect, the word gain implicitly means from the supply. Hermit is a nice example, it just says "gain a card costing up to $3." but has to specify that the Madman is gained from the Madman pile.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #77 on: December 24, 2018, 10:03:28 am »
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Chuckes yeah it is called bridge and bridge doesnít have +1 Card however highway does and itís the same thing as bridge. I will change it to only $1 less however instead of $2 less.

And yes a rickety bridge that could break at anytime so you discard (heavy) treasure before you cross thatís the theme for the card.



You can do what you want, but the general consensus is that +1 Card without +1 Action is an awkward bonus that can actually hurt more than it helps: if you have no actions left, the chances of drawing a single action card dead are high, which is all bad and no good. There's a reason no official card does this, except Ruined Library, which is supposed to be bad.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #78 on: December 24, 2018, 10:26:58 am »
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Well if thatís the case I can make it cost $1 just like poor house. What about that?


Or I could put it back the way I had it. After all it could do more harm than good with just the +1 Card right. Which means it shouldnít of been too powerful for a $2 costing card in the first place. The awkward bonus should balance the card from keeping it too powerful.

Or I could remove the +1 Buy and make it +2 Cards.

Which of the three do you guys prefer?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 10:37:00 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #79 on: December 24, 2018, 11:00:46 am »
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Would trash a treasure work?
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #80 on: December 24, 2018, 11:09:55 am »
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Trashing a treasure might make it even more powerful?
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #81 on: December 24, 2018, 03:20:17 pm »
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Really, I think just +1 Buy and discard a Treasure for -$1 prices would be good. I think that would be balanced at $2, and also nice and simple.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #82 on: December 24, 2018, 08:46:27 pm »
0

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #83 on: December 24, 2018, 08:50:48 pm »
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So for every 3 cards that you have that says (This is not in the supply) gives you victory points. If your playing with other cards in wildlands especially, it could be a lot of points. And at least a smidge of victory points if itís just Cape buffalo.


« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 09:02:36 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #84 on: December 25, 2018, 01:12:32 pm »
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Why is there a * in the card?


Edit* It's for cards that were never in the supply not that are in a empty pile
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #85 on: December 25, 2018, 04:09:48 pm »
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Pretty much every official card has * beside each number on the treasure, for any card that isnít in the supply. Except shelters, heirlooms, and zombies. So preserve will work with official cards as well.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #86 on: December 25, 2018, 04:11:51 pm »
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I would leave out the from Preserve; I think it would just cause confusion. Some things such as Peddler and Grand Market also use the "*" in the cost, but they are in the supply. You could just say "for every 3 cards you have that are not from Supply piles." You do need the "you have", otherwise it would count all non-supply cards.

The wording on the action part is a bit strange too. It could simply be "You may reveal 5 differently named cards from your discard pile, to gain a Cape Buffalo from its pile". "When you do" is awkward wording given that while playing the card is the only "when" that it could happen. It's not like Goons with "when you buy a card". And it does need to be "from its pile", you can't just "gain a Cape Buffalo" because it isn't in the supply.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 04:17:09 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #87 on: December 25, 2018, 04:31:18 pm »
+1

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #88 on: December 25, 2018, 04:35:45 pm »
0



I think this version works pretty well. Though the colors should have white and green because it's an action.

Unless it's too strong, I would give Cape Buffalo a higher cost; maybe even . You're going to want a lot of Cape Buffalo if you are going for Preserve at all; so it would be nice if having another one in your hand when you played one helped with its ability.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #89 on: December 25, 2018, 04:55:08 pm »
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Now Iím sure you have lots of questions about this one. And since itís practically the first of its kind Iím sure itís going to need more work.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 04:56:18 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #90 on: December 25, 2018, 05:15:14 pm »
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The reaction trasher won't work with moat because moat will block the full attack so lion can't trash it.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #91 on: December 25, 2018, 05:33:06 pm »
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The reaction trasher won't work with moat because moat will block the full attack so lion can't trash it.

Lion is not an attack; no reaction would be revealed when it is played.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #92 on: December 25, 2018, 05:44:12 pm »
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Having something that increases costs causes an unknown rules issue... if you play a Lion with a Highway in play, does Copper cost or ? There is no right answer; different people will look at it and play differently. Highway reduces Copper to , and Lion makes it into . Or, does Lion make it into , and then Highway brings it back to ? Bridge Troll is Donald's way of doing a cost-increasing attack; it makes other players take their - token. That works similarly to increasing the cost of things.

Also, since Lion increases costs for yourself as well; it's pretty weak. The cost-increasing effect basically just balances out between you and your opponents, so all you are really getting is the next-turn draw, and the reaction thing. The next-turn draw is worse than Hunting Grounds, for the same cost.

And as a terminal; it could be quite difficult to ever take advantage of the reaction thing. You would need to play a village, then play Lion, then play an attack, and then your opponent would have to choose to reveal a reaction. Though of course it would work better with reactions such as Tunnel.

But then you have other weird things, like what if you make them reveal a card using something like Spy or Cutpurse, and the revealed card is a reaction, maybe Moat, or maybe just Tunnel. A reaction was revealed so I guess they should trash it; as worded. But it also says they follow the effects.

I don't see a reason to have it say "they follow the effects". You don't need to specify that; that's just what happens normally when you reveal a reaction. Telling them that they trash it later shouldn't cause anyone to think that they don't still do what it says.

And what about reactions like Horse Traders? That doesn't get revealed when used. So Lion wouldn't affect it? Also, there's a tracking issue; the reaction is hidden away in their hand, so how can they be forced to trash it? What if they used something like Secret Chamber, which may or may not leave the reaction in their hand afterwards. If it isn't in their hand, it can't be trashed.

Basically, I just don't see how either part of this card can work. The cost-increasing is better done with a - token, and the reaction-trashing thing just has far too many rules and wording issues to work.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #93 on: December 25, 2018, 06:37:22 pm »
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So when this is played no reaction can be used to block this attack from happening unless someone played it on a turn prior cause after all thereís only one of each of these tokens per player. And horse traders isnít affected by the lion, tunnel, faithful hound, trader and watchtower may not always be affected by it either. Lighthouse, champion and guardian do work well with this card, if there already on the table.

Examples of reactions that canít block this: moat, diplomat, secret chamber, caravan guard.

Wildlands reactions that canít block this: hippopotamus, Cape buffalo
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #94 on: December 25, 2018, 06:41:14 pm »
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I think this wording can work. But it seems like it should be "until the end of turn" instead of "until the start of your next turn". As worded, it would stop your own reactions against your opponent's attacks.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #95 on: December 25, 2018, 06:50:27 pm »
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Now itís like a lighthouse itself. So you donít have to worry about reacting to attacks.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 06:53:26 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #96 on: December 25, 2018, 08:51:46 pm »
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Now itís like a lighthouse itself. So you donít have to worry about reacting to attacks.

Can I reveal Moat to stop Lion? Watchtower to stop Witch? Tunnel and Market Square to Knights? Patron to Scrying Pool?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 08:53:03 pm by majiponi »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #97 on: December 25, 2018, 11:41:34 pm »
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Whenever you reveal a reaction to an attack, itís nullified with lion in play. And lion anti reaction rule goes into effect before the actual attack part of it goes into play. So you canít moat a lion. However with that said there are ways out. The lighthouse from seaside if itís on the table already automatically blocks it and if lion was played earlier by another player they wonít be affected by this lion either. With the exception that the reactions wonít work for them either.

So no you canít use trader against a witch, you canít use tunnel against a militia. But you can still use a trader against Iíll gotten gains same goes for watchtower also. You can also discard and reveal tunnel with your oasis for instance. And since horse traders is set aside, instead of revealed you can still get that to work for you. And patron wouldnít work with an attack that told it to be revealed. However if used another card that wasnít a reaction to an attack like patron was revealed with chariot race that would still work.

Itís kinda thematic when a lion roars, most people stop what there doing. Cause the roar of a lion is so intimidating, time almost stops for a lion roar.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 11:44:03 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #98 on: December 26, 2018, 12:50:15 am »
+1

Whenever you reveal a reaction to an attack, itís nullified with lion in play. And lion anti reaction rule goes into effect before the actual attack part of it goes into play.

No, it does not. As worded, preventing players from revealing reactions is part of resolving Lion, which occurs AFTER it goes into play, and Moat would be revealed before Lion is resolved, thus allowing Moat to react to Lion.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #99 on: December 26, 2018, 06:17:04 am »
0

If thatís the case how do I word it so the reaction canít activate before lion can attack. Cause the whole point of this card. Is to block moat like reactions.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 06:18:22 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #100 on: December 26, 2018, 01:13:57 pm »
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If thatís the case how do I word it so the reaction canít activate before lion can attack. Cause the whole point of this card. Is to block moat like reactions.

Lion needs some under-the-line text to do some special ability that isn't related to when you play it.

Quote
Until the end of turn, reactions cannot be revealed in response to playing attack cards. Each other player takes their - token and puts their -1 card token on their deck.

At the start of your next turn, +4 cards.
________________
Reactions cannot be revealed in response to playing this.

Should work... I changed it to "end of turn" instead of "start of next turn", because that still works just as well to prevent reactions for all your attacks; without needing the extra Lighthouse-thing to prevent it from backfiring. It's just simpler wording for a very similar effect.

I still don't think the reaction part matters all that much... plenty of games using it will either not have reactions, or not have other attacks. And even if the game has both, you have to still play a village, then Lion, then the other attack. So that effect simply might matter very rarely. If Lion already prevents reactions to itself with its own under-the-line text, then maybe that's enough for what you want.

This version of the card might be too strong; you perhaps changing it so that each opponent can choose which penalty token to take could work.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #101 on: December 26, 2018, 02:07:19 pm »
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Ok thanks GendoIkari
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #102 on: December 26, 2018, 08:51:10 pm »
+1



Okay so I changed the wording. Also I made it so you would get both attacks but separated them out -1 coin token first. Then at the start of your next turn each player would get the -1 Card token and dropped the benefit down to 3 cards instead of 4 cards. So that should be balanced a little better than it was. And thanks again GendoIkari for better wording.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #103 on: December 28, 2018, 10:14:21 am »
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So the reason you need a dog in play to gain royal menagerie is quite thematic. Back in the day if the common folk wanted to see the animals at the menagerie. They probably couldnít afford the real price so they could use a dog as payment and then dog would be fed to one of the wild predators.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #104 on: December 28, 2018, 05:42:29 pm »
0

"You can't gain this unless..." interacts oddly with mandatory gainers. I'd steer clear of it if I were you.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #105 on: December 28, 2018, 07:36:54 pm »
0

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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #106 on: December 28, 2018, 09:35:20 pm »
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I think Royal Menagerie is way too strong even considering the gain restriction. Even without the other stuff, +3 Cards +1 Action is bonkers good, worth at least $8 or $9.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #107 on: December 28, 2018, 09:41:43 pm »
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Would it be better if I swapped the actions and cards.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #108 on: December 29, 2018, 03:02:32 am »
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Okay so I changed the wording. Also I made it so you would get both attacks but separated them out -1 coin token first. Then at the start of your next turn each player would get the -1 Card token and dropped the benefit down to 3 cards instead of 4 cards. So that should be balanced a little better than it was. And thanks again GendoIkari for better wording.

How about making this non-Attack? Masquerade, Tribute, Possession are non-Attack. "While this is in play, when other player plays a Lion, it doesn't affect you." will work, too.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #109 on: December 29, 2018, 10:40:27 am »
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I already changed it for to gendoikaris specs. Iím happy with lion as it is. Besides there is already attacks that give out those coins, so it has to be attack. And I prefer it with the tokens.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #110 on: December 31, 2018, 11:26:17 am »
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How about making this non-Attack? Masquerade, Tribute, Possession are non-Attack. "While this is in play, when other player plays a Lion, it doesn't affect you." will work, too.

That doesn't seem like a good way to make it Moat-proof. If anyone posted a card that gave other players penalty tokens, and didn't include the attack type in order to make it Moat-proof; the first poster to read it would respond and say that it should be an attack. If it were a real printed card, anyone who came across it while playing would be very confused, thinking "this really should be an attack". They wouldn't ever know that it was intentionally not made an attack just to make it stronger.

Yes, there are people that complain that Possession and Tribute should be an attack. But there is a good response to such players; they just need to be explained that on average, deck-cycling doesn't hurt you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 11:27:20 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #111 on: December 31, 2018, 12:56:43 pm »
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They wouldn't ever know that it was intentionally not made an attack just to make it stronger
Could you not just write in the rules
Quote
Although this card has an effect similar to an attack card, it isnít one, and therefore is not treated as one for cards like Moat.
?
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #112 on: December 31, 2018, 12:59:59 pm »
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How would this interact with Thief? My guess would be that it would be trashed, topdecked, lost track of, and thus not gained by the player who played Thief? Also change ďwhen this is trashedĒ to ďwhen you trash thisĒ.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 01:05:13 pm by MrHiTech »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #113 on: December 31, 2018, 01:10:21 pm »
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They wouldn't ever know that it was intentionally not made an attack just to make it stronger
Could you not just write in the rules
Quote
Although this card has an effect similar to an attack card, it isnít one, and therefore is not treated as one for cards like Moat.
?

Of course you could write something like that... pretty much any player would still be left asking "why isn't this an attack; it clearly should be an attack?"
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #114 on: December 31, 2018, 03:35:40 pm »
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Relic gave out the -1 Card token and bridge troll gave out the -1 Coin token. They were both attack cards. Unless Donald changes those official cards to non-attacks, lion officially needs to be an attack card as well. Plus in the wild if you came across a lion and had no protection what so ever what would happen to you. Would you be chatting with your buddies on the phone an hour later about how lions are as nice as bunnies. Not likely! Dangerous animals need to be attack cards. I find it silly that someone thinks lion shouldnít be an attack card. In more ways than one.
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #115 on: December 31, 2018, 03:53:12 pm »
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Relic gave out the -1 Card token and bridge troll gave out the -1 Coin token. They were both attack cards. Unless Donald changes those official cards to non-attacks, lion officially needs to be an attack card as well. Plus in the wild if you came across a lion and had no protection what so ever what would happen to you. Would you be chatting with your buddies on the phone an hour later about how lions are as nice as bunnies. Not likely! Dangerous animals need to be attack cards. I find it silly that someone thinks lion shouldnít be an attack card. In more ways than one.

To clarify, majiponi's suggestion was simply to remove the attack type in order to stop reactions from working... just a shortcut wording to make it behave identically to "Reactions can't be revealed in response to playing this". So Lion would still act like an attack in every way except the ability to react to it; which is what you wanted. I don't think the idea works great because of the potential confusion surrounding it, but the idea still had merit.
 
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #116 on: December 31, 2018, 04:02:29 pm »
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Oh okay. Yeah I donít like it either, plus I kinda like the idea that this would be the first attack that prevents reactions. Part of the reason why we make fan based cards is to create new cards that arenít exactly the same as pre exsisting cards. An attack that prevents reactions is a new idea and itís hard to properly gauge the exact wording for new ideas. Sometimes you just gotta wing it.

Anyways Iím in the process of fixing the wording for dog. And Iím changing royal menagerie to 7$ costing card as well as changing the benefit a little bit in order to make the words on the Card slightly bigger.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 04:05:12 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #117 on: January 01, 2019, 11:07:32 am »
0




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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #118 on: January 04, 2019, 09:10:25 am »
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Does the "Defeat" type interact in any way with any card except Courtier?
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #119 on: January 04, 2019, 10:23:43 am »
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I made one in my snowline expansion called eagles that did work with curses. Since Iíve only made a handful of defeat cards mad scientist, firn village, mosquito. (Skunk I made for nocturne physically already as a new additional card, which didnít make sense since dark ages had rats) However I plan to make a sorta of rulebook that says for eagles that curse cards/defeat cards are one in the same, so that way you can get the effect for both. Technically they are the same color at least. I have all the cards posted in the first few posts of the snowline thread, so check out what eagles does.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 10:30:42 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2019, 08:13:40 pm »
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2019, 10:39:15 pm »
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Iíve changed this card. What do you guys think?
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Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« Reply #122 on: January 15, 2019, 06:10:37 pm »
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The wording on lemon shark is strange at least below the line
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