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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition  (Read 821 times)

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Qvist

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The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« on: December 05, 2018, 03:59:57 am »
+20

Six years have already passed since the first Dominion Card Lists were compiled, the skill level of all players raised and a lot of new knowledge is gained. Another new expansion was released, so everyone is eager to learn how the new cards rank. That means it's time for the 2018 edition of the Dominion Card Lists. Please read the following text carefully to avoid frustration.

What do you have to do?
If you like to contribute, go to http://www.qvist.de/dommesh for the best cards list. I won't do the favourite cards and the best card art list this year around as I won't have time to present the results.
This video from last year walks you basically through how the web app works or just read on:


I'm not the best web designer to make it look nice, but it works. You have 3 options to submit your list. You can 1.) compare two cards at a time or 2.) order the cards all at once in a big list or 3.) rate them with numerical values. If you do the first option, the app will tell you when you're done and no new "card duel" is available anymore. This is not the recommended method anymore as it takes a very long time to do this. Internally option 1 and 2 is stored in one list and option 3 in a separate list. There are 2 links for exporting one list to another, so you can for example first give each card a numerical value for a rough estimate and then copy the list and fine tune it by either ordering them or do the remaining comparisms. Be careful if you do so though as it is heavy load on the database. Make sure to have at least a 1-20 scale to not overload the database. I didn't include a registration or anything like that for this simple app. You can just login by your ShuffleIT name and any password you like. The next time you login you just have to remember the password you've set on your first login. I expect that nobody will trick me by using a user name of anyone else. If you have no ShuffleIT account, just use a user name of your choice. If you don't know an expansion very well you can choose to leave it out. But be sure that if you want to include a card of a specific expansion, you have to rank all cards of the expansion. There are no restriction with Promo cards, so if you don't know e.g. Summon or Dismantle very well, you can leave it out.

To clarify as there is much confusion apparently: You can vote in any of the 3 methods. Therefore a S, A, B, C, D, E, F voting works as long as you convert that to a 7 to 1 rating in the "Rate" method. Also: Don't forget to mark your lists as finished when you are.

Cards are only counted if they are kingdom cards. If you want to look up the card texts and also the last year's lists, just go to our wiki. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com
If you submit your list, you also agree that I may give this to third party, like theory or rrenaud. If you don't agree send me a PM.

If you've submitted last year, I will not take your last submission into account.

I included extra lists for Prizes, individual Knights, Ruins, Events, Landmarks, Boons, Hexes and Projects. These are optional, you don't have to rank them if you don't want.
For Hexes, the "best" one is the one that is the most harmful.
You can also if you want rank all the kingdom cards in one big list. This is also optional as this takes a lot of time.

Usual disclaimer: This list should cause discussion not hassle. Of course it's difficult to compare some of the cards because pretty much every card has some situations where it shines and situations where it doesn't. This isn't a scientific list, just a compiled list of the community's opinion of the best cards.

What else?
Submission deadline is the 31st of January 2019 11:59pm UTC. Again: Don't forget to mark your list as finished until then.
Each card will get a percentage value based on the rank. So your best card gets 100% and your worst gets 0%. This will result in a compiled list of all of your lists.
As I don't have much time this year, results will get presented by a group of people with the upside of the results being presented in a much shorter time frame. Thanks for all the volunteers.
If you encounter some bugs, just send me a PM and I'll fix them ASAP.

Let's see how many submissions we get this time. The more we get the better the rankings will be. I can't wait to get your submissions. If you have any questions, ask them here.
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ospond

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2018, 02:44:33 pm »
0

Thanks for putting this together.

Question:
I'm using the S = 7, A = 6, B = 5, C = 4, D = 3, E = 2, F =1 voting method. I am then copying this to the compare/order list, and tweaking the order.
Which list should I mark as finished? The compare/order list, the rate list, or both?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 03:43:18 pm by ospond »
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ospond

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 03:43:48 pm »
0

A word of warning to others: it seems that your progress can be lost if you don't mark either ordered or compare mode as complete.

So specifically, if you generate ordered mode automatically from rate mode, and then you edit and save a new ordered mode, and then finally you switch to a new list (or log out and log in), it seems that the custom edits you made to ordered mode can be lost.

Or maybe what is causing the loss of data is that "Copy rate list to compare/order list" copies all the data from all the lists at once. I think that might be it.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 11:42:47 am by ospond »
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ipofanes

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2018, 04:23:09 am »
0

Are the rankings meant for 2p only?
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trivialknot

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2018, 12:51:29 pm »
+2

I'm worried that these rankings are slowly becoming unsustainable.  It's just so much work to rank cards, and the number of people willing to do it has gone down each year.

My method is to first make a bunch of overlapping lists of card types (e.g. terminal draw, trashers, VP cards), sort each list, and then merge the lists with the help of the overlap between lists.  The idea is that it's usually easier to compare two cards that fulfill a similar function.  I did the work in excel.  Once I was done, I assigned each card a unique integer between 1 and 366 (I don't rate all the cards).  Then I sorted the list again to match the order that appears on Qvist's site, typed all the integers in rate mode, and then copied it to order mode.

It's pretty slow, and requires a bit of excel wizardry.  I do wish there were a way of just copy/pasting all these excel values directly into the form.
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ipofanes

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 04:37:35 am »
0

The Youtube preview page displays additional difficulties of the objects of rating. While the Castles are to be rated as a whole pile, is Plunder to be rated as a single card or as part of the split pile? (In my paired ratings I encountered both Settlers and Bustling Village.) Should I rate Avanto as part of the split pile or its use as a glorified Smithy on the Black Market? Rocks or Bustling Villages are of limited use on their own, while Patricians can be quite good even on their own with a good amount of desirable $5 cards in the Kingdom, even if Emporium didn't exist.
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trivialknot

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 11:47:18 am »
+1

The Youtube preview page displays additional difficulties of the objects of rating. While the Castles are to be rated as a whole pile, is Plunder to be rated as a single card or as part of the split pile? (In my paired ratings I encountered both Settlers and Bustling Village.) Should I rate Avanto as part of the split pile or its use as a glorified Smithy on the Black Market? Rocks or Bustling Villages are of limited use on their own, while Patricians can be quite good even on their own with a good amount of desirable $5 cards in the Kingdom, even if Emporium didn't exist.
It seems reasonable to rate cards based on their average context.  For example, if you think Native Village is fine in a vacuum, but usually overshadowed by other villages in the kingdom, that seems like a good reason to downrate Native Village.  Well on average, Avanto only comes into play when there are already 5 Saunas floating around.

I used to rate Fortune lower because I felt it would often appear too late in the game to matter.  Now I think it's powerful enough that even late in the game it matters.  I also rate Gladiator a bit higher because sometimes it's correct to get Gladiator because revealing Fortune on your turn is just that good, even when your opponent gets their own Fortune immediately afterward.
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AJD

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 01:43:22 pm »
0

Rocks or Bustling Villages are of limited use on their own

The number of games I've played where Bustling was the only village would tend to disagree with you on that.
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ipofanes

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 04:27:27 am »
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Limited is not nonexistent.
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faust

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 05:13:10 am »
0

Bustling Village would be significantly more powerful if it were its own pile without Settlers. Its main drawback is that you can only get it once all the Settlers are gone.

There are two approaches to take here. One is the one detailed by trivialknot "average context". But what does it mean exactly? If there is never a chance to buy Bustling Villagfe because it is never uncovered, would it be fair to say that it was weak on that board? By extension this would imply that we should give all Events a rating boost because they have a higher chance of being available in any given kingdom than kingdom cards. (at least they used to; not sure what the current probabilities are with Projects added.)

This does not seem reasonable. So my rating is more like "given a situation where buying/gaining this is an option, how strong is it on average?" This will only factor in situations where the Settlers are already out.
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GendoIkari

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2018, 04:02:20 pm »
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Bustling Village would be significantly more powerful if it were its own pile without Settlers. Its main drawback is that you can only get it once all the Settlers are gone.

I don't know how strong Bustling Village is now, but without Settlers in the game, it would be a strictly worse version of Port that costs more.
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Chris is me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 05:19:46 pm »
+3

Bustling Village would be significantly more powerful if it were its own pile without Settlers. Its main drawback is that you can only get it once all the Settlers are gone.

I don't know how strong Bustling Village is now, but without Settlers in the game, it would be a strictly worse version of Port that costs more.

A single copy, sure. But a pile of BVs would have more extra Actions than a pile of Ports.
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Chris is me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 05:21:16 pm »
+1

The Youtube preview page displays additional difficulties of the objects of rating. While the Castles are to be rated as a whole pile, is Plunder to be rated as a single card or as part of the split pile? (In my paired ratings I encountered both Settlers and Bustling Village.) Should I rate Avanto as part of the split pile or its use as a glorified Smithy on the Black Market? Rocks or Bustling Villages are of limited use on their own, while Patricians can be quite good even on their own with a good amount of desirable $5 cards in the Kingdom, even if Emporium didn't exist.

Rate cards on their own, but you're certainly allowed to consider that every Avanto game will have Saunas, etc. You definitely shouldn't rate cards as if the other card isn't in the game; it would be like rating Cultists assuming the game didn't have Ruins.
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