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[Minotaur]

How much should these cost?  Maybe $3/$2?  Any other comments?  (Bartender was originally a standalone, but clearly it would be a pure Cantrip on many boards that way...)

Split pile, 5/5.

Town Drunk
Action-Reserve
Cost: $2 $4

Place this on your Tavern mat.
-------------
You may Call this during your turn for +$2.


Bartender
Action
Cost: $2

+1 Card
+1 Action
You may put a Reserve card in play into your hand Tavern mat.

EDIT - First thought - Bartender might be ok with most Reserve cards, but is way too strong with this one.  But nerfing Town Drunk down to +$1 would make it a fairly weak standalone for the first half of the pile (unless that's also underestimating things).

EDIT 2 - Returning it to your hand instead of the mat would be a huge change that might work?

EDIT 3 - I implemented EDIT 2 and strikethroughed the places where the original was different.

[GendoIkari]

Keep in mind that the general rules for split-pile cards have the cheaper card always go on top (says so in the Empires rulebook). Of course fan cards can do what they want, but it's an extra step to remember that the order would be different for this pile compared to all other split-pile cards.

I definitely think Town Drunk needs to be cheaper. It's a weaker version of a card that just flat-out says "+2 Coffers". And that would be a slightly stronger version of a card that just flat-out says "+". Somewhat like Duchess. In other words, at , I don't see myself ever buying a Town Drunk over a Silver. It might be fine at .

Bartender causes issues with Royal Carriage... play Bartender, then call Royal Carriage to re-play Bartender, puting Royal Carriage back, repeat forever. By itself it does nothing, but if you had a token on one of the piles, it's infinite something with just those 2 cards.

[Minotaur]

Bartender causes issues with Royal Carriage... play Bartender, then call Royal Carriage to re-play Bartender, puting Royal Carriage back, repeat forever. By itself it does nothing, but if you had a token on one of the piles, it's infinite something with just those 2 cards.

Putting the card into your hand instead of the Tavern should fix that.  I was leaning in that direction anyway, because I didn't want Bartender to turn into a double-Peddler and be way too strong, and I didn't want it to have to cost $6 or more.

I guess they could both cost $2.  Or $2/$3 might also be ok.

I definitely think Town Drunk needs to be cheaper. It's a weaker version of a card that just flat-out says "+2 Coffers". And that would be a slightly stronger version of a card that just flat-out says "+".

This is a lot stronger than Duchess (if it costs $2).  Duchess just plain sucks and doesn't grant Coffers.

Power-wise, you might not want a terminal that gives 2 Coffers in your deck, but if it hangs out on your mat for a while and misses a shuffle, that can be a benefit.  But it's still a finesse consideration, and $2 doesn't seem too bad, the more I think about it.  Especially if it goes back in your hand instead of the mat.  The power difference with that modification is huge, making the "double peddler" Bartender into a terminal "double peddler".

[Minotaur]

We only have Butcher and Villain to compare with for a "+2 Coffers" price point.  Those cards cost $5 and do something extra.  Villain is a somewhat weak attack, too.  I might even lean toward Town Drunk costing $3, if not $4.

I don't especially feel convinced by "the top card of the pile has to cost less" as a rule, either.  I specifically didn't want Bartender to have nothing to do at all, but I'm not convinced that it's too strong to cost $2, or maybe $3.

[Neirai the Forgiven]

Hmmm, how to cost Bartender...

I'll be honest, I like where Town Drunk and Bartender are at right now. Town Drunk is a card I would never buy without Bartender being around. Now a call Town Drunk, play Bartender, play Town Drunk and then call Town Drunk turn? That's a reason to buy Town Drunk, I think. Yes, you're getting $4 but you're also spending $4 for the two cards, and you need to expend some actions to do it...


The question for Bartender costs then is, how powerful is it with other Reserve cards?
The short answer is, not *that* powerful, but:

With Guide and Ratcatcher, if you play the Reserve card, you can get an additional +1 Card and +1 Action, making Bartender in essence a Laboratory that moved a Guide or Ratcatcher onto your Tavern mat. That's $5 + probably less than $1 worth of tempo. Or maybe $1 worth of tempo. That's POWER, you say, but bear in mind that you also needed a $2 or $3 second card and a bit of setup (having the Guide or Ratcatcher on your Tavern Mat) in order to gain the bonus. So at most this combo would imply that Bartender should cost $3. But it's a combo, so not necessarily.

With Coin of the Realm, Bartender essentially gives you +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. For about $4 worth of cards and some set up cost. I'd price that as $4 or $5, as it's a Peddler variant where the drawback is "you must have a Coin of the Realm in play before playing this."

With Teacher, Bartender is "+1 Card, skip having to shuffle before you get a Teacher ready for next turn". This *is* powerful as it basically lets Bartender count as a copy of Teacher, tempo-wise. But is that tempo worth ~$8, with the setup requirement -- working to get Bartender, working to upgrade up to Teacher, getting a Teacher in play with a Bartender at the ready? You had to have a Teacher in play, and you have to wait til next turn to play Teacher again. Hmmm.

Duplicate is a lot like Teacher, but then you probably had to call Duplicate early, during your Action phase. How good of a card are you getting with Duplicate, then? I feel like Duplicate's power level will be lessened if you use it with Bartender, so it likely balances out. Weaker Duplicate, two turns in a row, for $6 over two cards? Probably fine.

Transmogrify and Royal Carriage basically make Bartender "Cantrip, get a Transmogrify or Royal Carriage ready again." Of course, Royal Carriage could then be used again this turn on whatever you use its Action on, which is powerful but not outside how Royal Carriage already worked. The most powerful use of this would be if you have multiple Bartenders and Royal Carriages in your hand with Town Drunks? This sounds more fun than broken, though. Again.. cost? Probably not more than the cost of buying a Royal Carriage and a Bartender ($6).

Finally, for the sake of completeness, Distant Lands and Wine Merchant don't interact with Bartender at all. Which is probably a good thing.


In conclusion, Bartender is probably fine at $2. If you test it and find it is too powerful, consider bumping it up to $3 to deal with the Teach and Royal Carriage and Guide/Ratcatcher power spikes.

[Minotaur]

Hmmm, how to cost Bartender...

I'll be honest, I like where Town Drunk and Bartender are at right now. Town Drunk is a card I would never buy without Bartender being around. Now a call Town Drunk, play Bartender, play Town Drunk and then call Town Drunk turn? That's a reason to buy Town Drunk, I think. Yes, you're getting $4 but you're also spending $4 for the two cards, and you need to expend some actions to do it...


The question for Bartender costs then is, how powerful is it with other Reserve cards?
The short answer is, not *that* powerful, but:

With Guide and Ratcatcher, if you play the Reserve card, you can get an additional +1 Card and +1 Action, making Bartender in essence a Laboratory that moved a Guide or Ratcatcher onto your Tavern mat. That's $5 + probably less than $1 worth of tempo. Or maybe $1 worth of tempo. That's POWER, you say, but bear in mind that you also needed a $2 or $3 second card and a bit of setup (having the Guide or Ratcatcher on your Tavern Mat) in order to gain the bonus. So at most this combo would imply that Bartender should cost $3. But it's a combo, so not necessarily.

With Coin of the Realm, Bartender essentially gives you +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. For about $4 worth of cards and some set up cost. I'd price that as $4 or $5, as it's a Peddler variant where the drawback is "you must have a Coin of the Realm in play before playing this."

With Teacher, Bartender is "+1 Card, skip having to shuffle before you get a Teacher ready for next turn". This *is* powerful as it basically lets Bartender count as a copy of Teacher, tempo-wise. But is that tempo worth ~$8, with the setup requirement -- working to get Bartender, working to upgrade up to Teacher, getting a Teacher in play with a Bartender at the ready? You had to have a Teacher in play, and you have to wait til next turn to play Teacher again. Hmmm.

Duplicate is a lot like Teacher, but then you probably had to call Duplicate early, during your Action phase. How good of a card are you getting with Duplicate, then? I feel like Duplicate's power level will be lessened if you use it with Bartender, so it likely balances out. Weaker Duplicate, two turns in a row, for $6 over two cards? Probably fine.

Transmogrify and Royal Carriage basically make Bartender "Cantrip, get a Transmogrify or Royal Carriage ready again." Of course, Royal Carriage could then be used again this turn on whatever you use its Action on, which is powerful but not outside how Royal Carriage already worked. The most powerful use of this would be if you have multiple Bartenders and Royal Carriages in your hand with Town Drunks? This sounds more fun than broken, though. Again.. cost? Probably not more than the cost of buying a Royal Carriage and a Bartender ($6).

Finally, for the sake of completeness, Distant Lands and Wine Merchant don't interact with Bartender at all. Which is probably a good thing.


In conclusion, Bartender is probably fine at $2. If you test it and find it is too powerful, consider bumping it up to $3 to deal with the Teach and Royal Carriage and Guide/Ratcatcher power spikes.

I'm probably not going to test it, but I appreciate the thoughts.  There are a lot of $4 and $5 Reserve cards, but you might draw Bartender as a pure Cantrip half the time.  Then again, Town Drunk lowers the odds of that, but you don't want too many terminal Silver variants in your deck on most boards...

Having the pile be balanced on its own but not too strong with enablers would be nice.  In 2P, refusing to buy Town Drunk could be an effective denial, but if you have 1-2 Town Drunk hanging out at the Tavern for most of the game, that's not too bad.