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Jeebus

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Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: November 30, 2018, 06:58:18 pm »
+3

I thought of some card ideas, and here they are. To make them nicer to look at, I found some images and used Violet CLM's generator (thanks!).
The general idea was to think of more interesting stuff to do with just the base mechanics, so just given the base game rulebook.

I'd appreciate any feedback. If some of them are too similar to a fan card already created, I guess someone will tell me. None of these are tested!

Edit: Changed several of the cards. See text below for original versions.

                     

SHAFT v1 - $3, Action
+4 Cards
Discard 1 card for each card drawn.

SHAFT v2 - $3, Action
Draw 4 cards.
If you did, discard 4 cards.


PANNIERS v1- $2, Action - Reaction
+1 Card
---
When another player plays an Attack, you may play this from your hand, to return 1 card from your hand to the Supply.

PANNIERS v2: added to top: +$1

WEAVER v1 - $5, Action
+3 Cards, +$3
Each other player draws 3 cards and discards 3 cards.

WEAVER v2: increased price to $6

LAW - $4, Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it costs $3 or more, +3 Cards. If it costs $4 or more, +1 Action.

MIDWAY - $3, Action
Say a type. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, and put them back in any order. For each card that has the said type, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Card.

PRIVATEER v1 - $6, Treasure - Attack
+$1, +1 Buy
When you play this, choose one: Discard your hand and +4 Cards; or gain a Silver to your hand. Each other player does the same.

PRIVATEER v2 - $7, Treasure - Attack
+$1, +1 Buy
When you play this, discard your hand and +4 Cards, and each other player with 5 or more cards in hand does the same.


ALDERMAN v1 - $5, Action
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, then discard them. For each different type on the revealed cards, you may play an Action card from your hand that has that type.

ALDERMAN v2: added to top: +1 Action
ALDERMAN v3: also added to top: +1 Card

PROWLER - $4, Action - Reaction
+1 Buy
Reveal cards from your deck until revealing a Treasure costing $1 or more. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.
---
When you gain a Treasure, you may discard this from your hand, to set the Treasure aside. If you did set it aside, play it.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 05:03:57 pm by Jeebus »
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Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2018, 07:03:35 pm »
0

Privateer is the one I'm most unsure about. You'll probably mostly choose the first option: you draw 4 more cards, potentially more Treasures, and you attack the others. Might be too good at $6. If you choose to gain a Silver, it's pretty much strictly better than Gold, but then you also give the other players a Silver in hand, so that gimps it enough maybe. (But fun for you if the others Moat, since they don't know what choice you will make.) The problem is if the first option is way better than Gold too; you only need to draw 2 coins worth of Treasure for it to be. Could this be costed $7?

Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2018, 08:49:02 pm »
+1

These are really good! I agree with your comments on Privateer; it definitely needs either nerfed or made more expensive, also it could definitely use some kind of phrasing so that only players with five or more cards in hand discard. Some other comments:
Panniers is good in concept, but on boards with no attacks it is much weaker than other cards that protect from attacks; +1 Card is a Ruin! It could maybe make a split pile with Privateer, you know, to also nerf Privateer since it wouldn't be available as quickly.
Midway should say name and named instead of say and said.
Prowler doesn't need to say discard this from your hand, it can just say discard this. Overall I really like these cards, especially Weaver.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 08:50:14 pm by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
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Holunder9

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2018, 05:21:42 am »
+3

Weaver is overpowered. The sifting for the opponents is nice but doesn't totally compensate as it decreases in value with several plays. I'd try it with 3 Cards and 2 Coins.
Midway could be phrased as "name a type.
Alderman is a giant Necropolis and far too weak.
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Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 02:22:55 pm »
0

Quote
PRIVATEER - $6, Treasure - Attack
+$1, +1 Buy
When you play this, choose one: Discard your hand and +4 Cards; or gain a Silver to your hand. Each other player does the same.

PANNIERS - $2, Action - Reaction
+1 Card
---
When another player plays an Attack, you may play this from your hand, to return 1 card from your hand to the Supply.

MIDWAY - $3, Action
Say a type. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, and put them back in any order. For each card that has the said type, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Card.

PROWLER - $4, Action - Reaction
+1 Buy
Reveal cards from your deck until revealing a Treasure costing $1 or more. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.
---
When you gain a Treasure, you may discard this from your hand, to set the Treasure aside. If you did set it aside, play it.

These are really good! I agree with your comments on Privateer; it definitely needs either nerfed or made more expensive, also it could definitely use some kind of phrasing so that only players with five or more cards in hand discard.

Thanks for your feedback! Yes, Privateer needs a complete overhaul. I have considered many options now. The problem is also the lenght of the text, especially considering the clause about 5+ cards in hand, and the big coin symbol.

In the end I need to make it simpler. I thought that with a cost of $7 this might work:

PRIVATEER - $7, Treasure - Attack
+$1, +1 Buy
When you play this, discard your hand and +4 Cards, and each other player with 5 or more cards in hand does the same.


It's a bit similar to Minion, but the big difference is that you can't keep an engine going with it. You also can't defend against it with itself like you can with Minion. I think it could favor both money strategies and engines in certain kingdoms.

Quote
Panniers is good in concept, but on boards with no attacks it is much weaker than other cards that protect from attacks; +1 Card is a Ruin! It could maybe make a split pile with Privateer, you know, to also nerf Privateer since it wouldn't be available as quickly.

I don't want to make split piles, since that's a new mechanic.
I'm not sure about this one. Moat is also rarely buyable in a kingdom with no attacks. It can sometimes be used just for draw when there is an abundance of actions, but as I said this is rare. I can't make Panniers into a cantrip. Giving it +2 cards can work, but then I can't have the simple text of "play this from your hand". Maybe +1 Card, +$1. The coin would be like the +Action on Caravan Guard, it doesn't do anything when played out of turn. But the coin hardly makes it more buyable with no Attacks...?

Quote
Midway should say name and named instead of say and said.

I'm not so sure. Cards have names and types. "Name a card" means to say a card name. "Name a type" would mean that card types have names. To me, "say a type" introduces less confusion. There has been no official card that does this, so who knows how Donald would have done it.

Quote
Prowler doesn't need to say discard this from your hand, it can just say discard this.

Good call.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 02:48:26 pm by Jeebus »
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Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2018, 02:33:13 pm »
0

Quote
WEAVER - $5, Action
+3 Cards, +$3
Each other player draws 3 cards and discards 3 cards.

ALDERMAN - $5, Action
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, then discard them. For each different type on the revealed cards, you may play an Action card from your hand that has that type.

Weaver is overpowered. The sifting for the opponents is nice but doesn't totally compensate as it decreases in value with several plays. I'd try it with 3 Cards and 2 Coins.

Thanks. Yes, I think you're right. I was worried about that. Maybe increasing the cost to $6 could work instead. Weaver could favor money strats over engines quite often. In those cases you won't play it several times. But with 3+ players you could get the sifting benefit from several players, with lower value each time.

Quote
Alderman is a giant Necropolis and far too weak.

Wow, you're absolutely right. I mean, sometimes it could let you play 3 Action cards, or even more with multiple-type-cards, but I guess often it would be 2. And sometimes only 1 (or 0 if you're really unlucky). I've been considering giving you a choice of playing cards from your hand and from the revealed cards, but it gets clunky. Maybe revealing 4 cards could work. Another option could be giving +1 Action; this eliminates the risk of stopping the chain, like the Tribute problem (although Golem has the same risk). A third option is just adding +$2, so that it's more useful.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 02:36:50 pm by Jeebus »
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Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2018, 03:09:53 pm »
0

Ok, I made new versions of Panniers, Weaver, Privateer and Alderman (and did the cosmetic fix on Prowler).

Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 12:04:17 pm »
0

So nobody has any more comments? At least I guess this means that these cards are pretty original, since nobody has said that they are too similar to existing fan cards.

I really agree with what Asper said here. Of course, you can't keep doing Reserves and VP token cards, etc, because you can't add those components to every expansion for the sake of a few cards. But you can do base mechanics, and I agree that there is a lot left there. This thread was my attempt, but I think there are plenty of ideas left. From Asper's cards there are at least: Alley, Decree, Sawmill, Shrine, Well, Farmer, Gallows, Heir, Assemble, Cliffside Village (too similar to Hideout now?), Craftsmen, Maze, Sanctuary, Sultan, Tribunal, Werewolf, Meadow. I'm sure there are plenty of others in this forum too. I'm sure we could make a set with around 25 cards of just base-mechanic cards.

Chappy7

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 12:41:36 pm »
+1

I still think I'd only buy Alderman if there weren't any other villages (or tacos or splitters or enchiladas or whatever)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 12:50:52 pm »
+1

I don't understand Shaft. Compare it to Warehouse... increasing the sifting to 4 instead of 3, and making it so that it doesn't punish you for overdrawing with it, can't possibly make up for it being terminal. It sounds super weak, to the point that I would rarely buy this if it cost . Am I missing something?
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Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 01:45:05 pm »
0

I still think I'd only buy Alderman if there weren't any other villages (or tacos or splitters or enchiladas or whatever)

I think it would depend a lot on what kind of (and how many) multi-type cards there are. In the right kingdom, it could let you play 3 cards or more. But maybe it actually needs to be a cantrip. I wonder if that would make it too strong in certain kingdoms.

Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 01:50:15 pm »
0

I don't understand Shaft. Compare it to Warehouse... increasing the sifting to 4 instead of 3, and making it so that it doesn't punish you for overdrawing with it, can't possibly make up for it being terminal. It sounds super weak, to the point that I would rarely buy this if it cost . Am I missing something?

Yeah, at first I had it at +5 Cards, but I thought it was too strong for $3. Remember that Warehouse increases your hand by 2 (before you choose which to discard), while Shaft increases it by 3, so 50% more. Not sure if +5 Cards is too strong, since that's double the cards on Warehouse.

Holunder9

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 02:10:29 pm »
0

I agree that this looks very weak. The problem is that the weakest terminal sifter, Young Witch, is extremly weak (ignoring the cursing) while the strongest one, Embassy, is so good that it is often a BM-enabler. Probably very hard to find something vanilla-ish in between, flexible support cards like Dungeon and Warehouse thrive because they are non-terminal.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 03:15:26 pm »
0

While Embassy is a sifter, it is also terminal draw. Young Witch is, I think, the only terminal sifter (as in, it doesn't increase your handsize when used). *Edit* oh, Storeroom too I guess.

Also, the wording on Shaft seems unnecessary. "Discard 4 cards" is so slightly weaker I think. If you've drawn your whole deck already, you just don't play Shaft. That wording only makes a difference when you have exactly 1-3 cards left in your deck.
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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 03:30:27 pm »
+1

I really feel like I've played so many games where a sifter has forced me to discard more than it drew when I'm drawing my deck. For just a few words extra the card gets rid of that drawback.

EDIT: That gave me an idea to make the card a bit better and more interesting: Draw 4 Cards. If you did, discard 4 cards.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 03:37:38 pm by Jeebus »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 03:36:40 pm »
0

I really feel like I've played so many games where a sifter has forced me to discard more than it drew when I'm drawing my deck. For just a few words extra the card gets rid of that drawback.

I don't have as much experience, but I would think you would simply not play the sifter in that case. Either you have other draw available, in which case you are playing the other draw last; or you don't have other draw available, in which case I wouldn't expect drawing your deck to be really possible. Seems like you would need specifically bad luck to end up with 2 cards left in your deck after having played all the drawers in your deck; and your last drawer drew your sifter.
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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 03:42:34 pm »
0

Seems like you would need specifically bad luck

Hey, that's my specialty!
Maybe I'm just annoyed at getting The Wind's Gift after I have drawn my deck, which I've experienced several times.



I really feel like I've played so many games where a sifter has forced me to discard more than it drew when I'm drawing my deck. For just a few words extra the card gets rid of that drawback.

I don't have as much experience, but I would think you would simply not play the sifter in that case.

You play it if you have a key card left in your deck which is more important than having to discard a few Treasures or something.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 03:45:52 pm by Jeebus »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2018, 04:03:05 pm »
+1

EDIT: That gave me an idea to make the card a bit better and more interesting: Draw 4 Cards. If you did, discard 4 cards.

See, I like this. Adds some interesting strategy to try to use it at the end of your deck. Also, really awesome combo with -1 card token (hopefully not too strong).
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Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2018, 05:04:14 pm »
0

Ok, I changed Shaft and Alderman.

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2018, 10:23:30 am »
+1

Shaft seems fine, if a bit weak.  I like it.

Panniers has me a bit confused.  If you use the reaction effect, do you get +1 card?  I'm also not sure why it returns a card rather than simply trashing it.  That's a valid choice, I'm just not sure what it adds really.  I think the on-play effect could be buffed.

Weaver seems rather strong.  I'm sure Weaver/BM could be beaten sometimes, especially with that sifting effect, but I worry that Weaver/BM might too often be the dominating strategy, and not interactive enough with the rest of the kingdom.  You should try it of course.  But I think it should be made less extreme.

Law, by contrast seems too weak.  For comparison, consider Catapult.  Catapult not only gives $1, but also provides a benefit upon trashing copper.

Midway seems pretty interesting, although not strong.  The reordering ability seems like a fairly important part of what makes it good.

Privateer, well here's a card that I think would clearly be more interesting without +Buy.  For one thing, you could make it cheaper.  And you'd find yourself in a variety of situations depending on the rest of the kingdom.  If the +Buy is on treasure, then you have that nice bit of synergy.  On the other hand, if the +Buy is on an action, you have to play the action before your buy phase.  So maybe you have a mix of Privateer and traditional draw, or else you hope to have the +Buy in your starting hand, or maybe you just do without +Buy.

I have issues with Alderman.  It seems kind of slow to play with, and without good reason.  Most often, you reveal at least one action, and now Alderman is an expensive village, hooray.  Maybe you reveal a victory card and can play your Mill, making Alderman a double village.  But so what?  I'm not sure what Alderman is really for, but honestly it sounds weaker and less interesting than a vanilla card that just says "+1 card, +3 actions".

I also have issues with Prowler.  Mainly it's a glorified woodcutter.  Or if you're buying treasure, and have extra buys, it's a glorified treasure.  I think you could do more with a simpler card, e.g. an action/treasure that only gives +Buy if you play it in your action phase.
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Jeebus

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Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2018, 11:21:54 am »
0

Thanks for your feedback!

Panniers has me a bit confused.  If you use the reaction effect, do you get +1 card?  I'm also not sure why it returns a card rather than simply trashing it.  That's a valid choice, I'm just not sure what it adds really.  I think the on-play effect could be buffed.

Yes, you get +1 card. Compare with Caravan Guard.
Returning adds a subtle difference to the game, because cursers will continue working.

Quote
Law, by contrast seems too weak.  For comparison, consider Catapult.  Catapult not only gives $1, but also provides a benefit upon trashing copper.

You might be right. I think reducing the cost requirements to $2 and $3 could be a nice fix. Now you will draw terminally while trashing estates. After that you need to feed it silvers or something.

Quote
Midway seems pretty interesting, although not strong.  The reordering ability seems like a fairly important part of what makes it good.

If you get two right, it's at least a cantrip, or Necro if you need the actions, or Moat if you have enough actions. So at least you get choices. If you get three right, you can choose between Village, Lab, Smithy and +3 Actions. If you get just one right, you're crying. Your deck composition and tracking will both matter.

Quote
I have issues with Alderman.  It seems kind of slow to play with, and without good reason.  Most often, you reveal at least one action, and now Alderman is an expensive village, hooray.  Maybe you reveal a victory card and can play your Mill, making Alderman a double village.  But so what?  I'm not sure what Alderman is really for, but honestly it sounds weaker and less interesting than a vanilla card that just says "+1 card, +3 actions".

It rewards decks with several types, that's what's supposed to make it interesting. Also you need actions in your hand and in your deck. Action-Reaction, Action-Victory, Action-Attack, Action-Duration, Action-Reserve, Action-Traveller... It might be too narrow to be good in most kingdoms though. Reserve or Duration heavy kingdoms seem the best.

Quote
I also have issues with Prowler.  Mainly it's a glorified woodcutter.  Or if you're buying treasure, and have extra buys, it's a glorified treasure.  I think you could do more with a simpler card, e.g. an action/treasure that only gives +Buy if you play it in your action phase.

Woodcutter is a fine card, and this is certainly different enough. The top part is better than Woodcutter. For the bottom part, maybe it doesn't need to discard itself? If you gain several Treasures, you could play them all. You would be able to buy all the Capitals though, getting +$1 more for each one! (But then you would be in crazy debt, so I doubt that's a good play most times.)
Even without that change, this card is crazy when you buy Fortune (EDIT: not really, you won't usually have any $ left for it to double). Also very good with Idol, Scepter and Crown.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 11:25:14 am by Jeebus »
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