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[LaLight]

I get the point of no rushing but dragging to the deadline is an awful idea

[LaLight]

also weekends are ahead

[SpaceAnemone]

request prod: UoS

Sent

[LaLight]

request prod: Jimmmmm

[LaLight]

I am leaving work in 45 minutes and I wait for a case promised and possible return of UoS

[LaLight]

then I will be mostly unavailable till tomorrow, maybe will return at night

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Sorry I didn't get to this yesterday, I'll get to it today but not right now.

Awful short prod timer

[UmbrageOfSnow]

And yeah, I basically was super busy yesterday and decided "well, I'll wait for Jimmmm's case before finishing my reread" because maybe that will help me be in a different headspace during said 2nd half of reread. It was a good justification to prioritize other things anyway.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

LaLight, if you have other stuff to say you should say it.

Also, I'm finding it kind of weird that people are missing that mcmc and I were scumreading each other too. If one of you had missed it maybe I'd read something into it, but you both forgot, damn you.

[Jimmmmm]

Sorry. Case coming in next few hours.

[Jimmmmm]

Throughout the game LaLight had very few interactions with joth and Dylan. He expressed scumread on various people (mcmc, ash, ss, faust off the top of my head). Here are the grand total of interactions from LaLight's perspective that I could find:

Just LaLight responding to their posts. I don't think they are meaningful one way or another. Only included for completeness.



LaLight's posts about joth:

for some reasons I can't put my finger on Joth. He reads townie, but I don't know, can't feel him

I think it’s mcmc and joth.

when you'll see mcmc/joth team you'll be like "LaLight told us but we were not listening!"

I am all in for voting joth

vote: mcmc

---snip---

this is just a last minute bussing

vote: joth L-1 is my input

There is a single short post on joth for the entire game until Day 4 when he developed a scum read on him for no explained reason. Granted it was early in the Day, but I think the writing was very much on the wall that after they failed to lynch me joth was going to be next. LaLight was already their last hope so he had to bus.




About Dylan:

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

Is it possible it is a partner call? Jimmmmm/mcmc//Jimmmmm/Dylan?
 
...

Given that Jimmmmm never lynched both as soon as I can see

I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn

The game started on December 13. Between then and January 4, the grand total of reads LaLight had expressed on joth or Dylan were "for some reasons I can't put my finger on Joth. He reads townie, but I don't know, can't feel him", "I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him." and "Is it possible it is a partner call? Jimmmmm/mcmc//Jimmmmm/Dylan?".

vote: no lynch

I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.

This post was about 24 hours after Dylan's claim, so the closest to a reaction we've got.

mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?

Well, my initial reaction was I believed it but then nothing really came together so I didn't in the end

Now, about a week and a new Game Day after the claim, his story has changed. Despite a claimed Cop result, the rest of LaLight's posts that Day are about whether or not to believe the Masons. His total contribution to the Dylan/me situation was "I don’t really believe Dylan (but let's talk about the Masons instead)".

But all you did was vote no vote. You never expressed any interest in either Dylan or Jimm. And you were the only person sitting on the no lynch train all day

Yes. I would vote Dylan after a no lynch day. I see why you didn't want to no lynch, I had it in me that I didn't believe you 100%

vote: no lynch

I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.

This. I didn't really believe Dylan.

After that voting for him would be hammering and it wasn't late in the day. I was unavailable then, we had state holidays till 8th

Now, after saying he initially believed Dylan, he goes back to saying he didn't believe him. Again, this is after the Dylan flip, and of course it's important given how close Dylan and joth were to distance himself from them.

mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?

Mine was that it was statistically extremely unlikely that Dylan and Faust and swan were all town, and that what made the most sense was Dylan being scum however no lynching and seeing faust flip mason would have made me more comfortable.

Exactly

Now he agrees exactly with mcmc (his biggest scumread) to help explain how he supposedly felt about the Dylan claim. And yet, he himself said "Well, my initial reaction was I believed it."

[Jimmmmm]

In summary, LaLight spent the first ~3 RL weeks / Game Days  saying very little and nothing of any substance about Dylan or joth.

After Dylan's claim, he said one small non-committal statement and then proceeded to talk about the Masons instead.

After it was fairly obvious that joth would be the next lynch, LaLight came up with an unexplained scumread on him, alongside a Townie.

When questioned about how he felt about the Dylan claim, he could not keep his story straight, and ended up quoting his supposedly biggest scum read to explain how he felt.

[Jimmmmm]

More to come.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Well that's more persuasive than I expected.

I'm definitely going to put off finishing my reread until tomorrow, see what else you say and how LaLight responds.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

D6 starts now and ends on Monday 21st January at 22.00 Czech time (4pm forum time).

Reminder for all of us, especially me.

[Jimmmmm]

Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!

oh and UoS, glad to have you back as well

Hmm, here's something (I didn't notice this post earlier). As his very first post of the game, LaLight goes out of his way to say that he is only meeting joth now, and that joth doesn't know him. Then he realises he should probably say hi to someone else as well. I'm guessing they had said hi in the Mafia QT, and decided they should say hi in the game thread as well.

Not a huge point, just something I noticed.

[Jimmmmm]

Looking at joth's interactions with LaLight. Again, they are very sparse. That's probably less noteworthy since LaLight was generally less active. Early on there are some mentions of LaLight's meta knowledge, which I'm not really considering (although they probably planned to bring that up), and joth requests a prod on LaLight.

Would lynch: DatSwan, silver, Jimmmm
Neutral: mcmc, LaLight, Umbrage
Would rather not lynch: Dylan, faust, Robz
Would not lynch: joth, Galz, ashersky

---snip---
So I moved my vote to DatSwan. But it was as much a vote for DatSwan as it was an unvote for Dylan.

After that the wagon just sort of puttered out -- Lalight showed up and said it was bad, silver moved his vote, we started talking about other wagons.

In this possibilities post, he mentions LaLight a few times, but only in a PoE/scum must be in this group way.

I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.

Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. They’ve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, I’ll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.

...

I meant a Jimm-LaLight or a Jimm-Umbrage.

...

Or umbrage-LaLight. Basically that I will look for the last two scum among those three.

More "LaLight is in this group of people who could be scum".

All this is doing is pushing me more so to say we should be lynching lalight today no lynching tommorow and then there is a slight chance the decision is made easier.

Why LaLight?

Alright, I'm not as far along on this as I had hoped to be but I have to go to my gate.

halfway-ish through a reread, I actually agree with Swan that Snow seems pretty towny. Jim reads scummy to me, but I agree that he's a bad lynch today given everything.

So for me that leaves lalight and mcmc. And what I will say is, neither of them have given me a strong reason to believe they're town. Lalight has been pushing for a mcmc lynch all game, but its never been realistically on the table, which seems like a great place to be with your partner.

I think there's a reasonably good chance they're our scum team, and I think mcmc is currently the scummier read of the two, based on the above posts.

vote:mcmcsalot

And finally a post expressing something of an opinion on LaLight. This is after the Dylan lynch, so joth is already in trouble. Note that he  says both mcmc and LaLight are scummy. And despite saying "I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot." only 2.5 RL days earlier, he now flips that and says "neither of them have given me a strong reason to believe they're town", and votes for mcmc.

[Jimmmmm]

Apart from regarding the fact that he's read all the game, these are all Dylan's mentions of LaLight that I found:

Well, I hope someone on Galz wakes up and switches, cuz I've stayed on as long as I can. I actually like LL's point here and feel good about Jimmmmm's flip as long as someone actually wakes up in time to hammer.

Forgot to put it in the VLA thread, but I did say here I would be VLA until new years.

My gut read on UoS is scum, but he's mostly been tunneling me the whole game, so it might be a little OMGUS.

I'm still skeptical of the Mason claim, however faust's posts from 527 to 547 do actually make the mason narrative for his and Swan's behavior actually seem plausible instead of just coming across like a totally stubborn and antitown willingness to take it through to a no lynch.

I'm not really a fan of the Robz wagon.  LL seems like he's done a ton of sheeping this game-continuing with his Robz vote. I can see Joth going either way depending on what I want to see when I read him, and there's the aforementioned skepticism about faust.

If it looks like it's going to come down to the two, I would prefer Vote: UmbrageOfSnow. I'm leaning slightly town on Robz, although if Joth is town, then his point on Robz does actually make sense. I would probably rather lynch Joth or LL over Robz though.

Ie, "I actually like LL's point here and feel good about Jimmmmm's flip" and "LL seems like he's done a ton of sheeping this game-continuing with his Robz vote."

[Jimmmmm]

A few more posts of LaLight being generally scummy:

I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash

Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?

well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion

So how do you think our little exchange where you withheld the information only to reveal it in literally your next post helped the town effort? I know that withholding information can be good, but I don't understand why you think that would apply in this case.

Well, my little plan was for someone to play along (that’s why there was really some rason behind my words) and maybe make ash nervous and see the reaction, but when I got a direct question, i thought it would be much better just to answer it so the point is moot.

vote: mcmc

This feels like a really awkward attempt at a "Town plan".

also for god's sake why kill ashersky

ashersky kill is still a weird thing, I can't see him even softclaiming anything. I remember the game in asher9++ when he softclaimed UB, while being VT to draw the kill (successfully). Nothing like this this time

I've said it before, but this sort of thing is a big scumtell for me. I think scum makes kills trying to be unpredictable, thinking that Townies will see them and think "Why that kill??". But mostly I think Townies just see the kill, think "Not me, okay" and carry on with the game.

This kind of tell has actually been really reliable for me this game, as it was what made me suspect both Dylan and joth early on.

Thank god they’re masons

Again, a really easy way for scum to "react" to Night Kills, but Townies just don't normally react as strongly, or at least don't feel the need to post it.

[LaLight]

nonsense. I always interact with my scum partners if i am scum, look at any of my last 3-4 games or basically at any of my games. I actually do think that not interacting with your partners is such a poor play I create interactions that are scummy. and also:

Also LaLight hammers his scum partner EVERY time, so that should have been a huge scum tell.  Well played LaLight

I didn’t hammer!

True, I guess I should just say busses!

this was just the last game before this one. if those two were my partners, I would vote dylan the same minute he claimed cop and I would vote both of them a lot throughout the game. I am positive town points are much more valuable than living partner. Sometimes I shoot myself to the leg with this, but this just always happens.

[LaLight]

In summary, LaLight spent the first ~3 RL weeks / Game Days  saying very little and nothing of any substance about Dylan or joth.

After Dylan's claim, he said one small non-committal statement and then proceeded to talk about the Masons instead.

After it was fairly obvious that joth would be the next lynch, LaLight came up with an unexplained scumread on him, alongside a Townie.

When questioned about how he felt about the Dylan claim, he could not keep his story straight, and ended up quoting his supposedly biggest scum read to explain how he felt.

Yeah, because before handling situation with Dylan and you I really needed to handle situation with Masons. One at a time

[LaLight]

In summary, LaLight spent the first ~3 RL weeks / Game Days  saying very little and nothing of any substance about Dylan or joth.

After Dylan's claim, he said one small non-committal statement and then proceeded to talk about the Masons instead.

After it was fairly obvious that joth would be the next lynch, LaLight came up with an unexplained scumread on him, alongside a Townie.

When questioned about how he felt about the Dylan claim, he could not keep his story straight, and ended up quoting his supposedly biggest scum read to explain how he felt.

Yeah, because before handling situation with Dylan and you I really needed to handle situation with Masons. One at a time

Oh and i quoted mcmc because he definitely just said the same thing as i felt. How does it matter if he is my biggest scumread or not? I feel this exact point very far-fetched

[LaLight]

I think scum makes kills trying to be unpredictable, thinking that Townies will see them and think "Why that kill??".

Did someone in a history of all the games ever did that? No one cares how town will think, scum usually just kills the towniest player. Say, usual pattern is killing faust N1, then kill anyone who breadcrumbs stuff then kill anyone who claims. This is by the way another point: I would never ever in any state leave claimed masons alive if they are masons and I would persuade my team to kill them because "try to make everyone think masons are a scumteam" literally NEVER works. I am sure this is not making me more town in your eyes, just sayin'

[Jimmmmm]

In summary, LaLight spent the first ~3 RL weeks / Game Days  saying very little and nothing of any substance about Dylan or joth.

After Dylan's claim, he said one small non-committal statement and then proceeded to talk about the Masons instead.

After it was fairly obvious that joth would be the next lynch, LaLight came up with an unexplained scumread on him, alongside a Townie.

When questioned about how he felt about the Dylan claim, he could not keep his story straight, and ended up quoting his supposedly biggest scum read to explain how he felt.

Yeah, because before handling situation with Dylan and you I really needed to handle situation with Masons. One at a time

Oh and i quoted mcmc because he definitely just said the same thing as i felt. How does it matter if he is my biggest scumread or not? I feel this exact point very far-fetched

But you "initially believed" the claim, which is not what mcmc said.

[Jimmmmm]

nonsense. I always interact with my scum partners if i am scum, look at any of my last 3-4 games or basically at any of my games. I actually do think that not interacting with your partners is such a poor play I create interactions that are scummy. and also:

Also LaLight hammers his scum partner EVERY time, so that should have been a huge scum tell.  Well played LaLight

I didn’t hammer!

True, I guess I should just say busses!

this was just the last game before this one. if those two were my partners, I would vote dylan the same minute he claimed cop and I would vote both of them a lot throughout the game. I am positive town points are much more valuable than living partner. Sometimes I shoot myself to the leg with this, but this just always happens.

This is a poor defense from someone as aware of metas as you. The fact that you're arguing that you always bus as scum demonstrates that you're self-aware enough to try to play against your scum meta. If you, someone who was clearly thinking and talking about metas at the start of the game, bussed in your last 3-4 scum games, why on earth would you do it again this game?