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Author Topic: M120: Czech Mafia (Game Over! Town wins!)  (Read 147202 times)

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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1075 on: January 16, 2019, 05:47:23 pm »

Umbrage, did you use your RB shot?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1076 on: January 16, 2019, 06:00:59 pm »

The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them. There is no way a Dylan/joth/me team gives the Town two correct lynches on a silver platter.

Jimmm wasn't on Joth, and was the first vote on Dylan after Dylan claimed a cop guilty on him, it's not like he could unvote there. So the only useful argument is that scum!Joth wouldn't bus Dylan, and clearly that happened (and mcmc would have hammered if Joth didn't.)

I wasn't on joth because I wasn't sure about ending the Day so soon. I made it extremely clear that I thought he was scum:

So are you arguing that Joth's lynch wasn't on scum then?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1077 on: January 16, 2019, 06:01:59 pm »

So are you arguing that Joth's lynch wasn't on scum then?

I'm not sure what you mean.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1078 on: January 16, 2019, 06:02:11 pm »

I used my RB shot on momsalon back on N2
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
« Reply #1079 on: January 16, 2019, 06:04:03 pm »

Final Day 4 Vote Count

jotheonah (4): UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah

Not voting (1): Jimmmmm

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

jotheonah was Blokovač Rolí of team Šmejdi - the Scum Roleblocker.

Day 5 start and night action deadline to be announced

THREAD LOCKED


Everyone but you and Joth was on the Joth lynch, so if scum don't just hand out scum lynches like that than Joth must not have been scum.

(This is impossible, I am being facetious to make a point.)
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1080 on: January 16, 2019, 06:06:29 pm »

I mean, are you looking only at vote counts and not at the rest of the game?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1081 on: January 16, 2019, 06:16:59 pm »

Could you please both give your reasons for voting for joth (or point me to them)?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1082 on: January 16, 2019, 06:21:00 pm »

I mean, are you looking only at vote counts and not at the rest of the game?

This reads like deliberately missing the point.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1083 on: January 16, 2019, 06:23:30 pm »

For me it was a bunch of stuff, the biggest being his bus on Dylan right before Dylan was lynched, but I was relatively confident Joth was scum before that (his reaction to the masons, his treatment of Dylan's claim, general nebulous scumvibes I can't remember the reason for at this point, I'm not going back and building a case on him at this stage of the game), and then he really scummed it up the day we lynched him too.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1084 on: January 16, 2019, 06:25:38 pm »

I mean, are you looking only at vote counts and not at the rest of the game?

This reads like deliberately missing the point.

What's the point?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1085 on: January 16, 2019, 06:42:11 pm »

The scum me narrative is such an epic conspiracy theory.
It isn't.
The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them.
Literally everyone other than Joth in the game wanted to lynch Joth, scum obviously bussed.

Jimmm could never unvote Dylan after Dylan faked a guilty on him, it would make no sense as town and therefore no sense as scum, once Dylan made that move, regardless of Jimmm's alignment, Jimmm was committed to staying on. Joth only bussed when the lynch on Dylan was inevitable. Jimmm didn't actually vote Joth, just said he wanted to (and that lynch looked pretty damn inevitable too.)

No towncred for you.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1086 on: January 16, 2019, 06:43:08 pm »

And that line of reasoning and that grab for towncred read as very scummy to me.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1087 on: January 16, 2019, 07:06:27 pm »

And that line of reasoning and that grab for towncred read as very scummy to me.

Of course it did.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1088 on: January 16, 2019, 07:44:42 pm »

I'll do the other half of my reread tomorrow.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1089 on: January 16, 2019, 09:26:58 pm »

Umbrage, what was your reaction to seeing ss was a Roleblocker?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1090 on: January 16, 2019, 10:28:18 pm »

Okay, I did more or less a full re-read. I went into thinking Umbrage was scum, but I've changed my mind and think it's LaLight now.


Day 1:

joth was voting for me for a large portion of the Day. He made a big (for Day 1) case on me: #393.
After DatSwan's Mason claim, Galz and I had 3 votes on us each. Dylan and joth both voted for me (#385 and #386), putting me on L-2 with Galz still on L-4.

They both (particularly joth) pushed for lynching me ahead of lynching Galz. If I was scum with them, it would have been the easiest thing in the world to get the Galz lynch through. Obviously joth did end up hammering Galz, but only because that's the Towny thing to do (avoid a no-lynch). If you read Day 1 after the DatSwan claim, they definitely tried to lynch me.
Bear in mind that if I'm scum, I'm a full (not 1-shot) Strongman, which is probably very close to the most valuable member. With various possibilities for for Town Roleblockers and Doctors, the Strongman would be the one to make every kill a guarantee. Also a Strongman flip helps Town solve the game as it indicates the possible number of Ts. There is no way scum wants to kill their Strongman on Day 1.


Day 2:

This is the Day that made me change my mind about Umbrage. It's the one significant Day that scum hasn't tried to lynch me, and they tried to lynch you instead. joth seemed pretty keen for your lynch, and Dylan voted for you too. The same argument apply for them not bussing you, except that if you're scum you're only a 1-Shot Strongman.


Day 3:

Funnily enough, joth says it best:

By the same token, “scum makes a fake cop claim and accuses themselves in order to guarantee the game that they’ve basically won drags on two more turns” strikes me as absurdly implausible.

As I've said before, scum was in a very good position before Dylan's claim. Even if all 3 scum had come under suspicion, there were plenty of opportunities for mislynches. New reads and cases always come up, and it was very unclear who would be lynched that day. In the scenario in which I'm scum, Dylan's claim absolutely guaranteed that the next lynch would be scum.


Day 4:

I didn't technically participate in the joth lynch. In hindsight I probably should have voted for him at the start of the Day, and I should probably use my vote better in general. But I was very vocal about wanting to lynch him. I feel like I led that lynch (primarily on Day 3) more than anyone, except maybe DatSwan.

Also about the Dylan claim - a Dylan/joth/me team in this scenario (if we did for some reason decide to claim a Cop result on our own), would have been much better off if I had been lynched instead of Dylan. Dylan and joth tied themselved together very strongly and Dylan probably would have received much more Town cred for his claim resulting in a correct lynch that I received by being targeted. So if this was the case I should have done less to fight against being lynched. As it happened, I fought hard against it and succeeded, making the following joth lynch fairly inevitable.



About the mcmc kill:

LaLight argued pretty strongly against mcmc. I think that if you (Umbrage) or I were scum, we would kill the other and leave LaLight and mcmc alive, hoping for a mcmc lynch. Scum LaLight leaving him alive doesn't help much if he's the only one who expressed a scum read on him.
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1091 on: January 17, 2019, 07:54:12 am »

I was thinking about your last sentence and got the same response every time which obviously doesn't work: why would I kill mcmc if you both were super more townie than him. But yeah, as scum I think I would kill UoS most likely, because I still think he is super townie and I am not voting for you because well, I'm afraid and I really need to reread more

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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1092 on: January 17, 2019, 08:08:08 am »

I didn't think he was particularly scummy. Not sure if Umbrage did. There's no point scum you keeping him alive if no one else thinks he's scummy.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1093 on: January 17, 2019, 08:08:35 am »

I'm afraid and I really need to reread more

What are you afraid of that you weren't afraid of earlier in the Day?
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1094 on: January 17, 2019, 08:15:15 am »

I'm afraid and I really need to reread more

What are you afraid of that you weren't afraid of earlier in the Day?

You made some points pro scum!Umbrage theory
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1095 on: January 17, 2019, 08:21:02 am »

I didn't think he was particularly scummy. Not sure if Umbrage did. There's no point scum you keeping him alive if no one else thinks he's scummy.

Same can be said for both of you as well
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1096 on: January 17, 2019, 08:23:18 am »

only I was scumread by you and mcmc was scumread by me
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1097 on: January 17, 2019, 08:24:21 am »

so potential scum!UoS had a choice of killing you and hope I'll vote for mcmc or killing mcmc and hoping you'll vote for me
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1098 on: January 17, 2019, 09:19:23 am »

I'll put together a case tomorrow. Please don't vote for me before then.
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #1099 on: January 18, 2019, 04:34:47 am »

request prod: UoS
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