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Author Topic: M120: Czech Mafia (Game Over! Town wins!)  (Read 147047 times)

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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #825 on: January 03, 2019, 09:46:52 am »

Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #826 on: January 03, 2019, 10:29:24 am »

Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #827 on: January 03, 2019, 10:30:39 am »

Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.

Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #828 on: January 03, 2019, 10:41:45 am »

Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.

Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?

We are going to have to make a decision eventually. With the claim it almost doesn’t matter who they choose to kill at night, as tomorrow we still choose between Dylan and Jimm. But if we choose today, it pretty much forces skum to kill me or Faust, which ICs the other. Or they could keep riding this no mason kill thing out, but i don’t see that likely.

Whatever - we do it now or later. If now, we get to direct Skums NK. If later, Skum gets to choose Willy nilly.
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Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #829 on: January 03, 2019, 12:08:59 pm »

vote: no lynch

I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #830 on: January 03, 2019, 12:24:08 pm »

vote: no lynch

I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.

You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #831 on: January 03, 2019, 12:26:30 pm »

Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausbile for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #832 on: January 03, 2019, 01:50:16 pm »

Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.

Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?

We are going to have to make a decision eventually. With the claim it almost doesn’t matter who they choose to kill at night, as tomorrow we still choose between Dylan and Jimm. But if we choose today, it pretty much forces skum to kill me or Faust, which ICs the other. Or they could keep riding this no mason kill thing out, but i don’t see that likely.

Whatever - we do it now or later. If now, we get to direct Skums NK. If later, Skum gets to choose Willy nilly.

But if we mislynch, there is no later.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #833 on: January 03, 2019, 01:52:25 pm »

Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.

Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #834 on: January 03, 2019, 02:11:20 pm »

I'd still like this answered, by the way:

I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.

So why did you revote him at the start of today then?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #835 on: January 03, 2019, 07:08:38 pm »

I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads it’s because they are confident enough to lynch.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #836 on: January 03, 2019, 07:19:38 pm »

Vote Count 3.1

Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, faust
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
D3 ends on Tuesday 8th January at 23.59 Czech time (17.59 forum time).
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #837 on: January 03, 2019, 08:05:00 pm »

I'd still like this answered, by the way:

I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.

So why did you revote him at the start of today yesterday then?

Because he was my top scum read at the time and LaLight was questioning why I wasn't voting for him.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #838 on: January 04, 2019, 01:22:20 am »

I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads it’s because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.

If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #839 on: January 04, 2019, 01:23:27 am »

@Space: In case of a repeated no lynch/no kill, what happens?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #840 on: January 04, 2019, 03:45:18 am »

Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.

Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The fact that you are making this argument is the very reason to do it.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #841 on: January 04, 2019, 05:29:24 am »

@Space: In case of a repeated no lynch/no kill, what happens?

9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #842 on: January 04, 2019, 05:56:08 am »

vote: no lynch

I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.

You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?

I started doubting.
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #843 on: January 04, 2019, 05:57:18 am »

I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads it’s because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.

If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.

Yeah, unless we’ll lynch town? Then the game will be over? The whole point of no lynch istoreduce the lynchpool and possibly create an IC
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #844 on: January 04, 2019, 06:13:35 am »

Yeah I don't see faust's argument againt no-lynching. Either way we need all Town members or a bus, but if we no-lynch first, there's one fewer Townie to be convinced.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #845 on: January 04, 2019, 06:40:30 am »

I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads it’s because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.

If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.

Yeah, unless we’ll lynch town? Then the game will be over? The whole point of no lynch istoreduce the lynchpool and possibly create an IC
The lynchpool right now is {Jimmmmmm, Dylan}. I will not be reduced after one night.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #846 on: January 04, 2019, 06:41:30 am »

Yeah I don't see faust's argument againt no-lynching. Either way we need all Town members or a bus, but if we no-lynch first, there's one fewer Townie to be convinced.
This is downright absurd.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #847 on: January 04, 2019, 06:42:07 am »

vote: no lynch

I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.

You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?

I started doubting.
Why?
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #848 on: January 04, 2019, 06:52:40 am »

Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.

Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The fact that you are making this argument is the very reason to do it.

You and Jim both really like this nonargument, which can be used to respond to any argument based on the premise “why would scum do X”?

It’s annoying because it ignores the substance of the argument. Yes, scum can do any crazy thing for the reason that “scum would never do this crazy thing”. Sure.

That said, scum are still rational players trying to maximize their win condition. Arguments that say “I think scum is less likely to do X because X makes them less likely to win than Y” are still worthwhile.

Here’s the situation: scum had this game in the bag. All they needed today was a mislynch and we had basically no idea who they were. That’s how today started. So what is more likely: that scum decided to throw away the game with a high risk, high reward fake cop claim, or that we rolled the unlikely-but-possible setup that had a cop and he got lucky with an unorthodox investigation choice? I think it’s the second one.

By the same token, “scum makes a fake cop claim and accuses themselves in order to guarantee the game that they’ve basically won drags on two more turns” strikes me as absurdly implausible.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #849 on: January 04, 2019, 06:56:08 am »

vote: no lynch

I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.

You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?

I started doubting.
Why?

Because i reevaluated the game state. As earlier believing you was safe and correct, now i see that as long as there’s a little probability of you and Swan being scums, i need to reevaluate my seeing of the game because we can lose to you and i will be like “oh i was fooled again”
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