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Author Topic: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)  (Read 6755 times)

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Galzria

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #400 on: December 19, 2018, 11:27:16 pm »

this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...

drunkAMA

Home from work now. ‘Bout to start.

You ever have Old Forrester's Bourbon? It's my absolute favorite.

I haven’t... right now I have Willett Reserve, Woodford Reserve & Angel’s Envy... I’ll look into Old Forrester’s... but also, should probably have this in a separate thread lol.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #401 on: December 19, 2018, 11:31:33 pm »

You're probably right. Anyway, that's a good array of whiskeys. I'm a little jelly.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #402 on: December 19, 2018, 11:35:21 pm »

Jimmmm is fine, Dylan is also fine.

We do NOT need DatSwan's partner to claim, IMO.

Why did Galz fall off your “fine list”?
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #403 on: December 19, 2018, 11:36:29 pm »

Also jimmmmmm you out there bro beans?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #404 on: December 19, 2018, 11:46:40 pm »

No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #405 on: December 19, 2018, 11:53:45 pm »

No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.

Proposition for you: vote for Jimmmmm instead. Why get two people to L-2 when you could get one person to L-1? Especially after I put all that work into that lovely case for you.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #406 on: December 19, 2018, 11:54:06 pm »

sheep your town read Robz
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #407 on: December 20, 2018, 12:07:00 am »

Alright, well I also have to go to bed.

There's five more hours til deadline.

If we end up no lynching, FoS the people who aren't on either wagon. That's ashersky and lalight. Time for you two to make a decision, and preferably the same one.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #408 on: December 20, 2018, 12:20:06 am »

It's all about this:

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

Scummy for a few reasons. One, it was early in the day to be talking about lynch candidates, which was basically silver's case:

I guess you thought I meant "the only lynch candidates"? I don't think it's ever too early to be talking about lynch candidates - everyone who isn't an IC or made some claim is a lynch candidate and whenever you vote or make a case you're promoting the lynching of that candidate.
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Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #409 on: December 20, 2018, 12:21:55 am »

I'm gonna run a load of laundry so I can travel in the morning, so I can move to Galz if needed to avoid no lynch if only one of the people off wagon come around while I'm up, but I would rather stay on Jimmmmm from a reads perspective. They aren't super far apart on my list, but Jimmm is a few shades scummier.

ppe 1 Oh hi Jimmmmm
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 6 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104; Losses 7 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, M109; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #410 on: December 20, 2018, 12:24:36 am »

But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.

This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.

If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #411 on: December 20, 2018, 12:33:15 am »

I don't have any super strong reads or cases, but what I look for in Day 1 are people who either seem more sure about someone than they should be, or decribe what people do as "weird" etc so they can appear to be scumhunting without actually having to fight argue strongly against someone. So, some thoughts on Dylan:

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

As someone mentioned, scum never does this, and I would say this type of argument comes more often from scum than from Town.

Yeah silver's last few posts sounded weird when I first read them, but I guess you can (and frequently do) have reasons for votes in RVS, so an RVS vote with an explanation isn't an oxymoron like I was thinking at first I guess.

Describes silver as weird,  but doesn't really conclude anything.

Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.

This and what follow feel like trying to make arguments he would make as Town.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #412 on: December 20, 2018, 12:52:18 am »

Sadly I don't think Dylan can happen today.

I'm here for a little bit, but have to sleep soon.
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Galzria

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #413 on: December 20, 2018, 12:52:43 am »

Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.

Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.

For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.

I’m confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. It’s strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?

I'll do my best.

When I read the thread, start to finish, and try to remove any pre-conceived bias or reads that I may have already have formed (which, I'll admit, I'm not completely capable of doing), you come across as extremely scummy. So does Datswan. Both of your opening set of posts where you vote for one another feel extremely disengenuous and as you both have a strong established meta of clashing with each other, it feels very forced.

So what's different about my reads on you two? The best I can describe it is that your posts for Swan feel like you're TRYING to be scummy - it feels over the top and obvious. From a town perspective, there are plenty of reasons to want to be slightly scum read. You could be a PR trying to avoid a NK. You could be a VT trying to pull a NK based on the previous sentance. I've seen both from multiple players, in multiple scenario's. I've done the second recently (M117 I think? I was VT and played D1 overly scummy with a very soft Cop claim that scum picked up on N1).

Swan on the other hand, reads more serious. Maybe it's that he came second and you first, but he reads to me like he's playing into the "mcmc and I always fight" meta because he's trying to appear like his town-self. It just doesn't give me the same vibes that there could be an alterior town motivation for playing it out that way.

Both of you open by playing into this same, pre-established meta. I could be over-reading on you, and maybe you're just scum trying to blend in to your town meta, as I'm suspicious of Swan for doing. But for neither of you does this come across as genuine. I just find it easier to believe there's a town motivation for you than I do for Swan.

In the end, for both of you to be town and to have opened the way you both did feels really, really strange to me. I just don't feel it. And I have an easier time seeing you posting in the fashion you did as town than I do seeing Swan posting in the fashion that he did as town - so while I'm hesitant to want to vote you, I have no problem voting Swan.

Last Galz post reads like a super well hidden agenda to get two players he knows are town lynched.

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

As someone mentioned, scum never does this, and I would say this type of argument comes more often from scum than from Town.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #414 on: December 20, 2018, 12:57:18 am »

I'm glad someone wrote up the actual case on Jimmm, because it feels like more of a case for him being Jimmm than being scum.  Not saying he should get a free pass on lurking but what exactly is the deal there? I feel like Jimmmm is maybe slightly less likely to flip scum than random here.

Galz isn't my preferred lynch either, but I'd give him slightly more likely than average to flip scum, based on the big reads post.  Inclined to leave my vote there when I go to bed.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #415 on: December 20, 2018, 12:58:46 am »

Yeah, that's a big part of why Swan was the first to L-1
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #416 on: December 20, 2018, 01:14:53 am »

Here. Sorry, got ill and sleeping all the time
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Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: 11, 6
Losses: 9, 4, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 17

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #417 on: December 20, 2018, 01:15:18 am »

vote: Jimmmmm, L-1 I believe
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Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: 11, 6
Losses: 9, 4, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 17

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #418 on: December 20, 2018, 01:15:54 am »

But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.

This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.

If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.

For this post only. This is a really scummy thing to say
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Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: 11, 6
Losses: 9, 4, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 17

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #419 on: December 20, 2018, 01:17:17 am »

It’s soft claiming VT without any actual reason to and pretending to be not caring. I myself did it in one game and Awaclus caught me on it (i was scum)
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Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: 11, 6
Losses: 9, 4, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 17

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #420 on: December 20, 2018, 01:47:51 am »

Well, I hope someone on Galz wakes up and switches, cuz I've stayed on as long as I can. I actually like LL's point here and feel good about Jimmmmm's flip as long as someone actually wakes up in time to hammer.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 6 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104; Losses 7 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, M109; MVPs: 1 - NM9

faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #421 on: December 20, 2018, 01:58:55 am »

I'm here!

I guess you guys sorted out the claiming situation. I agree with the way it's being played for now I think. Since I have some hours left and we now have a probably town wagon to analyze, I'll put in some work before any sort of final decision is made.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #422 on: December 20, 2018, 02:01:31 am »

But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.

This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.

If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.

For this post only. This is a really scummy thing to say

That's a pretty convenient excuse to jump on a wagon.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #423 on: December 20, 2018, 02:01:43 am »

Well I'll go to sleep then, someone else can hammer Jimmm if they want, i'll leave the Galz option open.

LaLight's point is super dependent on context and timing, and the night of a late-night lynch I don't think it makes any kind of sense as a case but whatever.

Goodnight all
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #424 on: December 20, 2018, 02:11:33 am »

Okay, I think Jimmmmm is town.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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