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Author Topic: M120: Czech Mafia (Game Over! Town wins!)  (Read 9650 times)

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SpaceAnemone

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M120: Czech Mafia (Game Over! Town wins!)
« on: November 25, 2018, 06:07:32 am »

Welcome to M120: Czech Mafia!

Setup: M120 will use asher 9++.

Mods: SpaceAnemone, EFHW

Player List:
1. faust
2. LaLight
3. Robz
4. mcmcsalot
5. DatSwan
6. Jimmmmm
7. ashersky
8. UmbrageOfSnow
9. jotheonah
10. Galzria
11. silver
12. Dylan

Tagged: e, hypercube
Sub list: WCD, Joseph

Navigation: Start of D1, Start of D2, Start of D3, Start of D4, Start of D5, Start of D6

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post at least once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Please do not include other text or newlines in the bolding tag. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable if they are already in common use. Your vote may not be counted if it cannot be picked up by an automated vote counter.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.

The Rest:
1. Blue-purple text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it, or anything that looks similar. To avoid confusion, please remove mod colour if quoting the mod's posts.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last 24-48 IRL hours, to be announced at the end of the day. (Your mod cannot always be available for modding at any given hour...)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 10:40:21 am by SpaceAnemone »
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2018, 06:07:47 am »

QT/Role info

Example Role QT message:

Dobrż večer, XXX. You are YYY of team ZZZ.
English explanation of the role name.
English explanation of the win condition.


Teams are Vesničanť for Town and ämejdi for Scum.

Role namess are as follows:

VT -> prostż vesničan
Universal Backup -> UniverzŠlnŪ ZŠloěnŪk
Cop -> Policajt
Doctor -> Doktor
Vigilante -> StrŠěce (spravedlnosti). Not a good translation, but the Czech friend who was helping me was having a hard time finding a good word.
Mason -> ZednŠř (which is builder, but the Order of the Freemasons translates as "ŘŠd svobodnżch zednŠřů", so it seems appropriate).
Innocent Child -> Nevinnť DŪtě
Roleblocker -> Blokovač RolŪ
Goon -> Gorila
Strongman -> SilŠk
Bulletproof -> NeprůstřelňŠk
Godfather -> Kmotr

The "one-shot" modifier is "na jedno pouěitŪ".

Rule Clarifications

Scum RB trumps town RB, if both exist.
If masons exist, they can use their QT(s) in both day and night phases.
Scum can talk at night but do not have daychat.
Don't forget about the asher 9++ link, which explains quite a lot about the possible setups.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 05:36:55 pm by SpaceAnemone »
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2018, 06:07:57 am »

Flavour

Dobrż den!

I intend to be very light on flavour. I've been learning Czech for around a year via Duolingo... so I'm still pretty useless at it!

The role names were translated with the help of a Czech friend who didn't really know anything about Mafia, so that was a whole other exercise in translation.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 05:47:20 pm by SpaceAnemone »
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2018, 09:22:36 am »

/in
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2018, 10:48:34 am »

/in
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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

Wins: 11, 7
Losses: 9, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 17

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2018, 11:04:57 am »

/in
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2018, 12:46:18 pm »

/tag
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 6 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104; Losses 7 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, M109; MVPs: 1 - NM9

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2018, 06:01:53 pm »

/tag
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It's probably not townie mctownerson WCD.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 09:06:09 am »

/in!
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2018, 01:07:08 am »

/in sicle
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2.71828.....

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2018, 08:08:34 am »

/tag
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 04:08:31 am »

/in
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ashersky

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2018, 06:27:25 am »

/in
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2018, 06:46:44 am »

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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

Wins: 11, 7
Losses: 9, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 17

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Robz888

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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2018, 12:32:31 pm »

/in
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2018, 12:33:28 pm »

/in
I hoped this would happen when I saw you in the design contest thread.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2018, 10:10:55 am »

/in
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2018, 10:29:52 am »

This is shaping up to be quite the lineup :)

Remaining wishlist in no particular order:
Voltgloss
Voltaire
yuma
Teproc
...
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2018, 11:17:02 am »

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Galzria

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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2018, 05:49:37 pm »

Mod note: My existence has been swallowed by work, so there's little chance of this kicking off before Sunday 9th Dec even if it fills before then... my apologies for anyone itching to get started!
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2018, 03:36:22 am »

/in
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Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2018, 12:01:40 pm »

with the change in start date, /in
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 6 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104; Losses 7 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, M109; MVPs: 1 - NM9

ashersky

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2018, 06:48:04 am »

Thatís hammer.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

hypercube

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2018, 01:12:00 pm »

/tag
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2018, 10:07:36 am »

Mod note: My existence has been swallowed by work, so there's little chance of this kicking off before Sunday 9th Dec even if it fills before then... my apologies for anyone itching to get started!

I am itching to get started ... tomorrow.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2018, 11:02:32 am »

SPACE! We starting this, or what?
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2018, 11:25:20 am »

I'm super busy today, so I'm okay with Space being busy.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2018, 01:40:50 pm »

As excited as I am about this, I am realizing I will have like a week and a half V/LA starting on the 20th during which I probably won't be able to play at all. So idk if I should /out and join a new game in the new year. If the game stops/slows down over Christmas and New Years it might be ok, I just don't really know the norms.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2018, 02:00:15 pm »

If you decide to out jotheonah, Iím happy to /in
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It's probably not townie mctownerson WCD.

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2018, 03:35:33 pm »

Other than Christmas Day itself, the period around there is when I'm likely to be the most available in this game.
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Joseph2302

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2018, 04:29:31 pm »

Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2018, 05:50:27 pm »

I'm back, to some degree! Enough that I'll try and set things going tonight in the next hour or so (then I have to sleep... jetlag after my trip to Tenessee is killing me!).

A co-mod may be useful. I've got some rather tight work deadlines and some personal stuff that mean I may have to disappear again for a day or two at short notice.
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2018, 08:38:45 pm »

PMs going out nowish. Please "/confirm" in your QTs.

I intend to run the game with an extra 24 hours for xmas day if that falls during a daytime, and a discretionary number of extra hours if it's night. Given that we have a willing sub list, I intend to be proactive in subbing out non-present players if they reach 24 hours without posting more than once in the game when they don't have an active VLA posted.

Please post your VLA times in this thread (in addition to anything you do in the VLA thread) at least 72 hours before the start of your intended VLA. This will allow all players to take better account of patchy availability, and will allow me to adjust deadlines as necessary.
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

EFHW

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2018, 09:42:57 pm »

Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
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EFHW

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2018, 09:43:44 pm »

Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
Or I could comod.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2018, 05:57:18 am »

You should all have your PMs with QT links now.

D1 will begin very approximately 24 hours after the last person checks in, to allow N0 strategising for all relevant parties. Please consider the current period an extended N0 for QT chat purposes.

If there are any hold-outs after 5pm forum time on Thursday, I'll consider swapping in someone from the sub list.

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2018, 05:59:16 am »

Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
Or I could comod.

Comod would be velmŪ dobrť! I'll PM you some details.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Night 0)
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2018, 05:50:34 pm »

We've officially been in N0 for some time.

I intend to kick off D1 tomorrow morning, Czech time :-)
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2018, 04:58:13 am »

Dobrť rŠno! Good morning!

It's the start of D1, in our nice peaceful little Czech village of Vesnice (which literally means village). I do hope nothing bad happens...

Vote Count 1.0

Not voting (12): faust, LaLight, Robz, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, Galzria, silver, Dylan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. D1 will end at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2018, 05:40:32 am »

Finally I'm in a game again.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2018, 05:41:56 am »

Space, how will you handle end-of-year holidays in terms of deadline extensions?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2018, 05:51:51 am »

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2018, 05:52:29 am »

Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2018, 05:53:00 am »

oh and UoS, glad to have you back as well
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2018, 06:35:53 am »

Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2018, 07:08:16 am »

Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

He told him in the scum QT, of course.

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2018, 07:13:22 am »

And yet you're not voting for them?

Vote: ashersky

It feels good to do this again.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2018, 07:23:16 am »

Vote: ash

Early D1 wagons are good for Town. ash wagons are very good for Town.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2018, 07:26:49 am »

Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2018, 07:27:43 am »

vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2018, 07:41:51 am »

I intend to run the game with an extra 24 hours for xmas day if that falls during a daytime, and a discretionary number of extra hours if it's night. Given that we have a willing sub list, I intend to be proactive in subbing out non-present players if they reach 24 hours without posting more than once in the game when they don't have an active VLA posted.

Please post your VLA times in this thread (in addition to anything you do in the VLA thread) at least 72 hours before the start of your intended VLA. This will allow all players to take better account of patchy availability, and will allow me to adjust deadlines as necessary.


I'll consider adding extra time if more than 1/3 (rounding up) of the alive players have a posted VLA in effect at the same time.

Also, please note that EFHW is now co-mod, which helps with the busy-mod situation over the next couple of weeks :-)
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2018, 08:45:42 am »

Hello everyone. Let's have an active and civil game.

vote: ashersky
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2018, 08:57:07 am »

Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

HA! I can barely get through games I'm actively participating in! LaLight if you really read all ~200 games on this forum I'm extremely impressed.

It is good to be back though. I really need to show my appreciation to Robz for bringing me back into the fold.

Vote: Robz
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2018, 10:14:04 am »

Welcome back, sir! Vote: Jo
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2018, 10:48:07 am »

Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
But you implied that your having read his games makes it so that you know him, so does it not follow that him hypothetically having read all of your games would make him know you?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2018, 10:48:39 am »

Vote: Jimmmmm
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2018, 10:51:24 am »

Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
But you implied that your having read his games makes it so that you know him, so does it not follow that him hypothetically having read all of your games would make him know you?

Here's what I'm more interested. LaLight, if you've read all the games, you should be a very good scum hunter. Who's playing off-meta so far?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2018, 10:59:48 am »

vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2018, 11:00:02 am »

*vote: joth
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2018, 11:13:50 am »

vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.

what... would scum!me be scared of at this point? Robz's obvious joke vote?

I don't think it's ever too early to start scumhunting and asking people for reads. RVS is boring.

Also, I think RVS is over? So far we have:

* ashersky's (I assume not totally serious) suggestion that Lalight and I are on a scum team together
* faust's vote on ashersky for FoSing us and not voting for us
* Jimmmmmm's vote on ashersky because he likes wagons
* your (silverspawn's) unexplained jumping on the ashersky wagon
* faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmmmm
* my joke vote for Robz
* Robz's joke (?) vote for me
* your (silverspawn's) vote for me for asking Lalight for a read before doing any scumhunting myself

That's a lot of real action, even ignoring some jokey votes!

The things on that list I find scummy so far:
- Jimmmm's ashersky vote
- silverspawn's ashersky vote

I actually don't mind silverspawn's vote for me, even though it's wrong and dumb. It's based on something, whereas Jimmmm's vote on ashersky is mindless wagonning is not. So I think I'll join faust in

vote: Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2018, 11:22:00 am »

I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2018, 11:22:51 am »

Vote: Silverspawn
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2018, 11:25:06 am »

Also, Hi LaLight, Faust, everyone else! Good to be back. I'm trying to only commit to one game at a time and only occasionally, but I intend to join more in the next year too.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2018, 11:30:21 am »

I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
So why did you vote for someone with 0 votes on them then?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2018, 11:39:19 am »

I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
So why did you vote for someone with 0 votes on them then?
To make you ask that.

And because of how SS jumped on Joth.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2018, 11:44:11 am »

I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.

Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?

I see Jimmm's action there (his only action in the game so far) and I see (potentially) scum wanting to look like they're participating without actually contributing or drawing too much attention, with the added bonus of possibly getting a lynch going ASAP. Getting on a wagon early is good for scum, since the FoS tends to fall on the late joiners and the hammerer.

But I'd love to hear the "wagons are protown" argument.

Also, I apologize if I'm rehashing old settled issues here. It's been a long time and I've probably forgotten a lot.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2018, 11:52:06 am »

I don't know if it's an old settled issue, I've been out of the loop too, and I'm not sure my views are often consensus anyway.  Broadly the argument is that later-game wagon analysis has more to go on with more "serious" wagons, wagons that get up to L-1 or something and seeing who blinks and who doesn't, while small 3-vote wagons are more noise than signal.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2018, 12:00:59 pm »

The things on that list I find scummy so far:
silverspawn's ashersky vote

So you actually think opening the game with an RVS vote is scummy?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2018, 12:31:38 pm »

The things on that list I find scummy so far:
silverspawn's ashersky vote

So you actually think opening the game with an RVS vote is scummy?

No, I don't. But when your RVS vote is unexplained and happens to be on a person with 2 votes on them already, that raises an eyebrow.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2018, 12:51:39 pm »

It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?

I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2018, 01:13:51 pm »

It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?

I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
How was your vote random if you placed it on ash for this particular reason?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2018, 01:16:01 pm »

An RVS vote can be based on a joke, it can be based on a very flimsy case, or, apparently, it can be based on the idea that all wagons are good, which I still don't completely get, but it's pretty clear to me that it's a popular and uncontroversial opinion, so I guess I have to conclude it's not inherently scummy (unless Jim, silver, and Umbradge are all scum together). Still I'm leaving my vote where it is until Jimmmmm shows up and responds to this whole conversation.

Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2018, 01:19:05 pm »

...

Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.

Vote: Dylan. Used RNG for "truly random" RVS target, rolled 12...

Unvote
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #75 on: December 13, 2018, 01:22:49 pm »

Yeah silver's last few posts sounded weird when I first read them, but I guess you can (and frequently do) have reasons for votes in RVS, so an RVS vote with an explanation isn't an oxymoron like I was thinking at first I guess.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 6 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104; Losses 7 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, M109; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Galzria

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #76 on: December 13, 2018, 01:43:47 pm »

Hello!

This game is sporting quite the lineup! Joth, amazing to see you here again after all these years! I only just came back last year myself (thanks as well to Robz)!

My schedule for the next week and a half will be as it normally is - moderately present Monday-Friday, almost zero presence on Saturday/Sunday. I also don't expect that I'll be posting a whole ton on Christmas Eve / Christmas Day. Following the 25th I'm off work until January 4th, and while I may travel, I don't expect to be anywhere without access to internet for any extended period of time. After the 4th, schedule is back to normal for me.

PSA for those that don't know and to whom it may matter: DatSwan and I work together, so twinclaimsies there.

----------

With that out of the way:

Joth,


This is quite the response for such an early vote. Generally it's been my experience that a person using a "scum!me" perspective/narrative/argument/outlook isn't giving a tell - that is, it can come from both scum defending their actions or town genuinely believing that as scum they wouldn't do X (or in your case, "be scared of X").

The thing is, you don't have an established town or scum meta. And as your first game back, the only perspective you would have as town is from a town perspective. So it strikes me as odd that you would jump to a "scum!me" defense... especially so early in.

Also, from the same post:
Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?

UoS:


Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?

Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?

Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #77 on: December 13, 2018, 02:07:10 pm »

It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?

I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
How was your vote random if you placed it on ash for this particular reason?
It wasn't literally random, I used 'RVS' a bit more broadly.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #78 on: December 13, 2018, 02:22:29 pm »

Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?

Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?

It's not the who, it's the how.

Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different.  I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.

I voted where my biggest scumread at the moment was, I never said I always vote for the biggest wagon, I just think that's a reasonable pro-town thing to do and specifically not an inherently scummy thing to do (re: Jimmmmmmmmm.) Also I wanted to see how people reacted to me saying X is towny... Y! but no one quite jumped on me the way I was hoping and now it's been discussed enough that whatever.

Currently I'm conflicted on Joth, averaging out to null. I'm not inclined to say more about that at this time, I want to see how he acts going forward. (NO PRESSURE JOTH)
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #79 on: December 13, 2018, 02:22:42 pm »

Are we really wanting people to vote more randomly in RVS? Is this somehow a thing?
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #80 on: December 13, 2018, 02:28:12 pm »

Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?

My assumption was that faust's vote on Jimmmm was for the same reasons as mine -- quickly jumping on the first wagon he saw without contributing anything additional to the conversation.

I guess that's a big assumption, but given the timing of the vote, I thought it a fairly obvious explanation, so I didn't read the vote as unexplained or unmotivated.

This is quite the response for such an early vote. Generally it's been my experience that a person using a "scum!me" perspective/narrative/argument/outlook isn't giving a tell - that is, it can come from both scum defending their actions or town genuinely believing that as scum they wouldn't do X (or in your case, "be scared of X").

The thing is, you don't have an established town or scum meta. And as your first game back, the only perspective you would have as town is from a town perspective. So it strikes me as odd that you would jump to a "scum!me" defense... especially so early in.

I was just sort of trying to point out that silverspawn's comment about me being scared scum didn't really make any sense.

Re: my meta.

It's been a few years, but I do remember all the games I played in before, as scum and as town. It's all been coming back to me. In the past I wasn't very helpful day 1 (see my sig) but I think in this game I had so much pent-up excitement about getting started that I'm really throwing myself into it. Į\_(ツ)_/Į
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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Galzria

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2018, 02:40:59 pm »

Are we really wanting people to vote more randomly in RVS? Is this somehow a thing?

Eh, I think the way we use RVS is to take it's generic meaning "To create a bunch of seemingly random points of interest" over it's literal meaning "To create a bunch of random points of interest".

As Joth puts it:

Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.

RVS gets the game established, and creates a baseline for which to look back - regardless of any actual reasoning. There are small tells around RVS that I find useful later in the game as well, but explaining them in game would be anti-town. Still, in a game where information tends to be limited, rarely does town ever find themselves concerned with information overload, so the more content that can be created, the better.

Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #82 on: December 13, 2018, 02:44:20 pm »

Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #83 on: December 13, 2018, 02:45:31 pm »

Yeah, I'm on board with RVS, although I don't think I've ever cast a truly random vote and I suspect that's true of plenty of the rest too, and I think that's better. I'm with you on D1 being one of the most useful days.

I was more talking about Faust vs. SS.
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Galzria

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #84 on: December 13, 2018, 02:48:12 pm »

Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?

My assumption was that faust's vote on Jimmmm was for the same reasons as mine -- quickly jumping on the first wagon he saw without contributing anything additional to the conversation.

I guess that's a big assumption, but given the timing of the vote, I thought it a fairly obvious explanation, so I didn't read the vote as unexplained or unmotivated.

* your (silverspawn's) unexplained jumping on the ashersky wagon
* faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmmmm

Ö

The things on that list I find scummy so far:
- Jimmmm's ashersky vote
- silverspawn's ashersky vote

I messed up the names in my question: It should have read:

"Why was Silver's vote on Ashersky bad, but faust's vote on Jimmm good"?

In any case, what I found odd was that you listed both Silver's and Faust's vote as being "unexplained", but only found Silver scummy for it.

Now, in your follow up, you've said that you DIDN'T feel that faust's vote was unexplained. But that's exactly how you characterized your feelings on it at the time.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

Galzria

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #85 on: December 13, 2018, 02:51:49 pm »

Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #86 on: December 13, 2018, 03:00:58 pm »

I guess there's two ways to read the word "unexplained". It could mean "the person casting this vote didn't explain it" (unexplained1) or "there's no apparent explanation for it" (unexplained2). And I may have been using them a bit interchangeably. In the first half of the post, I was just focused on summarizing the action as unbiasedly as possible, so I was using "unexplained" for any vote that didn't come coupled with an explanation, which is all three votes. But to me, silver and Jimmm's votes for asher are unexplained in the other sense, whereas faust's isn't.

Unexplained1 is not necessarily scummy, though it easily could be.

I find unexplained 2 to be scummy, and here's why: Town should be voting for a person they think is scum and they should be doing it in such a way that other town players are encouraged to join them, in order to get that scum lynched. Voting for someone because they have a wagon isn't that. Voting for someone for no apparent reason isn't that.

Scum, on the other hand, wants to use their vote to facilitate a mislynch, and the sooner the better. Now of course you can WIFOM this all day and many of you are advanced players from whom I would expect more sophisticated scum play, but on balance when I see someone throwing their vote around without explanation, especially to run up an existing wagon, I'm suspicious. Especially on day 1 with nothing to go on.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #87 on: December 13, 2018, 03:04:24 pm »

Note that since that post I've come to realize that this idea of informational wagons apparently has some currency, which changes my read. The fact that Umbrage, silver, and Jimmmm seem to think that voting for ashersky just to run up a wagon is pro-town, I have to reconsider my read on it as scummy, even though I'm still not really convinced. People have different ideas about what constitutes pro-town day 1 play and that doesn't make them scum.
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #88 on: December 13, 2018, 03:26:39 pm »

Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?

Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?

It's not the who, it's the how.

Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different.  I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.

Maybe if you hear my reasoning, you'll change your mind.

LaLight is said to have read every scum game. This is very unusual. joth has been absent for a while and is now coming back. It's easy to see how he could be nervous about someone knowing his meta, and I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do. On the other hand, the town motivation makes less sense, because there's no way LaLight has any solid read on anyone so far.

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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #89 on: December 13, 2018, 03:31:28 pm »

I find unexplained 2 to be scummy, and here's why: Town should be voting for a person they think is scum and they should be doing it in such a way that other town players are encouraged to join them, in order to get that scum lynched. Voting for someone because they have a wagon isn't that. Voting for someone for no apparent reason isn't that.

Yeah, I don't think this is true. I rarely have a conscious mislynch in mind if I vote as scum, at least if it's day one. I think generally the scum motivation is "look good" and the town motivation is "be pro town" in whatever way.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #90 on: December 13, 2018, 04:02:45 pm »

I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #91 on: December 13, 2018, 04:06:08 pm »

Quote
the town motivation is "be pro town"

This is just a tautology. It doesn't mean anything. I'll buy that scum might not have a conscious motivation to mislynch but I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that town motivation is "lynch scum". That's my motivation anyway.

I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.

Fair enough. Care to share your reasons?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #92 on: December 13, 2018, 04:07:07 pm »

I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.

Fair enough. Care to share your reasons?
No.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #93 on: December 13, 2018, 04:09:40 pm »

Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.

Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. Iím going to surprise you!
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #94 on: December 13, 2018, 04:11:30 pm »

vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.

Vote: silverspawn since I donít believe this is scummy and Joth is far more easily explained as energetic returning player than scared scum.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Galzria

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #95 on: December 13, 2018, 04:11:57 pm »

Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.

Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. Iím going to surprise you!

I look forward to it!
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #96 on: December 13, 2018, 04:42:34 pm »

Quote
the town motivation is "be pro town"

This is just a tautology.

You are fortunate that Awaclus is not in the game, otherwise you'd quickly realize that it isn't a tautology.

But more importantly... I don't get why you say it doesn't mean anything. Being pro town is a fairly specific motivation to have. It can be used to distinguish town from scum. Being obvious doesn't make something meaningless.
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #97 on: December 13, 2018, 04:44:01 pm »

but I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that town motivation is "lynch scum".

Ultimately, yes. But not necessarily as the immediate goal. The immediate goal could just be to cause activity or drama or reactions or whatever, without intending to lynch someone.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #98 on: December 13, 2018, 05:00:33 pm »

Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?

Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?

It's not the who, it's the how.

Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different.  I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.

Maybe if you hear my reasoning, you'll change your mind.

LaLight is said to have read every scum game. This is very unusual. joth has been absent for a while and is now coming back. It's easy to see how he could be nervous about someone knowing his meta, and I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do. On the other hand, the town motivation makes less sense, because there's no way LaLight has any solid read on anyone so far.


I didn't ask him for solid reads. I asked him if anyone was playing off-meta so far. Which I think is a reasonable thing to ask someone who has read all the games. I absolutely think people can conform to or deviate from their meta in just a few posts. To give a completely hypothetical example, suppose faust's town meta was that he normally wrote long paragraphs explaining each vote. His vote for Jimmmmm with no explanation would then be off-meta.

Speaking of LaLight, they never really answered that question. And even if there wasn't enough info to answer it then, I suspect there is enough to answer it now.

Quote
I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do

I'm learning that you and I have very different ideas about how scum players think and act.
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #99 on: December 13, 2018, 05:07:31 pm »

Regardless of whether it was scummy, I still think answering it is clearly anti town. Wait until scum incriminated themselves, and then tell everyone what their scumtells are.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #100 on: December 13, 2018, 07:22:57 pm »

Vote Count 1.1

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (2): faust, jotheonah
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria

Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, ashersky, Dylan32

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #101 on: December 13, 2018, 08:00:54 pm »

Wow ton of talking so far - i mean all about nonsense obviously but that is to be expected.

Lots of people i have not played with before - hello to all!
Great to have you! Feel free to call me Swan, and i am a ďheĒ. Looks like Galz covered the twinsie claim so thatís that

People i have played with before - good to see you.

I will have limited access from Jan 3 - Jan 8. I will be around holiday time.

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #102 on: December 13, 2018, 08:29:31 pm »

I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.

Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?

To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #103 on: December 14, 2018, 02:51:48 am »

I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.

Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?

To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.
I think joth has done significantly more to get the game going than you so far.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #104 on: December 14, 2018, 03:04:13 am »

I'll be here soon.

I must warn you guys that my level of activity will be much lower than usual, you could notice that in games I was modding. Little bit life changing events

Talking about metas and me reading everything, I have usually quite bad reads. So far nothing really rubbed me in a wrong way, but I will reread everything closely at some time today
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #105 on: December 14, 2018, 09:07:16 am »

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
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ashersky

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #106 on: December 14, 2018, 09:12:44 am »

Caught up.

I will be exclusively phone posting this game and probably be accessing once a day.  So thatís that. If I have more time on. Particular day, Iíll try to contribute more.

I like the action so far, feels very three years ago.  All the usual scum vibes from too jokey Galz, too friendly Robz, and too quiet Jimmmmmmm that we usually expect.

That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.

vote: faust
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #107 on: December 14, 2018, 09:13:31 am »

Also good to see mom salon!
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Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #108 on: December 14, 2018, 09:26:48 am »

I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.

Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?

To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.

See, this makes no sense to me. If a wagon is to be any use at all, it's so that it can be analyzed. To analyze a wagon usefully, you have to know who got on it for what reasons, so you can determine who's scum. So even accepting that early wagons are useful, I would think that a wagon that you don't discuss -- or that discussion would "ruin" -- would completely negate that usefulness.

Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #109 on: December 14, 2018, 10:34:44 am »

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
Can you explain what gives you this impression?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #110 on: December 14, 2018, 10:35:25 am »

Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
Cool! Where in Germany will you be?
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #111 on: December 14, 2018, 10:38:35 am »

Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.

Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. Iím going to surprise you!

vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.

Vote: silverspawn since I donít believe this is scummy and Joth is far more easily explained as energetic returning player than scared scum.

For some reason this feels as alittlebitscummy!Robz. I can't point exactly why
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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #112 on: December 14, 2018, 10:39:43 am »

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced
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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

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Draws: 1
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #113 on: December 14, 2018, 10:41:11 am »

oh, caught up. I thought there's much more, don't know why. I sense a lot of undercover things by many players, that's cool, but talking about them would ruin it. This is really quite a lineup.

I think I'll stick to my mcmcsalot vote making it less random. Also eager to see what Robz is going to present this D1
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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

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Draws: 1
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #114 on: December 14, 2018, 10:43:51 am »

I will be strongly VLA from 30th to 2 (though will be posting) and less VLA till 9th, then no VLA at all
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Draws: 1
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #115 on: December 14, 2018, 10:48:43 am »

Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
Cool! Where in Germany will you be?
Munich! I'm open to sightseeing suggestions via PM. :)
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #116 on: December 14, 2018, 10:51:21 am »


That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.

vote: faust

What makes you say that? I was reading slight town on faust.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #117 on: December 14, 2018, 11:08:40 am »

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
Can you explain what gives you this impression?

It is a semantic argument where both players are kind of restating their own opinions without addressing/breaking down the other persons argument which I think is towny. Scum argues with the intent of painting the other player as scummy and they are arguing to get to a point of information.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #118 on: December 14, 2018, 11:09:12 am »

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #119 on: December 14, 2018, 11:15:41 am »

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?

I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.

All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #120 on: December 14, 2018, 12:00:18 pm »

Mcmc is doing his "I am town" analysis of other players, which is good. It means he's town!
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #121 on: December 14, 2018, 12:00:38 pm »

Look at me, starting conversations of my own volition. I think I should just get the MVP nod right now.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #122 on: December 14, 2018, 01:46:23 pm »

Look at me, starting conversations of my own volition. I think I should just get the MVP nod right now.

It feels weird not scumreading you and it's making me uncomfortable.
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ashersky

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #123 on: December 14, 2018, 08:05:29 pm »


That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.

vote: faust

What makes you say that? I was reading slight town on faust.

A ďslight townĒ reading on Faust is exactly what scum!faust exudes, actually.

Also, I think that while he can always be abrasive, there town!abrasive and scum!abrasive modes that he canít necessarily control.

I also generally pay attention to how many ď?Ē he has in his posts. The more the scummmier.
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Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #124 on: December 14, 2018, 08:15:01 pm »

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #125 on: December 14, 2018, 11:27:13 pm »

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

Iím OMGUSing you for being lazy... which is in itself lazy.. but Iím doing it anyways.

Vote: MCMC
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Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #126 on: December 14, 2018, 11:52:21 pm »

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #127 on: December 15, 2018, 12:00:13 am »

Rereading now. Iím really happy to see that ďtwinclaimĒ is still in the vernacular. I was the original twinclaim that spawned the term (though I wasnít the one who coined it).

Anyway based on my reread Iím kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. Heís been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. Heís been quick to vote and talk theory but hasnít really offered any reads or anything of substance.

On another note: Robz, why should Faust, or anyone, get a day 1 pass?
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Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #128 on: December 15, 2018, 12:14:21 am »

Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #129 on: December 15, 2018, 01:07:17 am »

Anyway based on my reread Iím kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. Heís been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. Heís been quick to vote and talk theory but hasnít really offered any reads or anything of substance.

Question for you: In my ash vote post I gave a theory reason (wagons are good) and a player-specific reason (wagons on ash are good). Why did you engage with the theory reason but not the player-specific reason?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #130 on: December 15, 2018, 02:21:51 am »

Vote: Dylan
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #131 on: December 15, 2018, 03:37:53 am »

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

which is one of these things that scum never does.

I don't scumread joth anymore, really at all. Let's vote: DarSwan
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #132 on: December 15, 2018, 09:25:46 am »

Anyway based on my reread Iím kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. Heís been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. Heís been quick to vote and talk theory but hasnít really offered any reads or anything of substance.

Question for you: In my ash vote post I gave a theory reason (wagons are good) and a player-specific reason (wagons on ash are good). Why did you engage with the theory reason but not the player-specific reason?

I gotta read closer. I actually had to go back and look to see what you were talking about. Quote, for convenience:

Vote: ash

Early D1 wagons are good for Town. ash wagons are very good for Town.

I guess I thought it was a glib RVS thing. Like you were jumping on the wagon for a theory reason and also just teasing ash about some meta thing. I have a hunch I might know what you and Umbrage were getting at when you said talking about it ruined it. So .... sorry if I ruined it.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #133 on: December 15, 2018, 11:31:49 am »

Rereading now. Iím really happy to see that ďtwinclaimĒ is still in the vernacular. I was the original twinclaim that spawned the term (though I wasnít the one who coined it).

Anyway based on my reread Iím kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. Heís been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. Heís been quick to vote and talk theory but hasnít really offered any reads or anything of substance.

On another note: Robz, why should Faust, or anyone, get a day 1 pass?

Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party, and scum kill him Night 1 in what seems like a majority of games. So he is sort of a special case.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #134 on: December 15, 2018, 11:32:07 am »

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

It isnít and it doesnít
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #135 on: December 15, 2018, 11:47:46 am »

Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party.

I guess Iíll take your for that for now.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #136 on: December 15, 2018, 11:53:12 am »

Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party, and scum kill him Night 1 in what seems like a majority of games. So he is sort of a special case.
A survey of recent games I participated in:

M119: I'm town, killed N1.
M118: I'm town, killed N1.
NM12: I'm town, scum never kills anybody lol
RMM49: I'm town, lynched D5.
M116: I'm town, killed N1.
M115: I'm town, and killed N1.
M113: I'm scum, living through to the end.
RMM42: I'm town and live to the end. [scum NK was nerfed]
M111: I'm town, killed N1.
NM11: I'm town, killed N1.
RMM46: I'm town, killed N1.

So out of my last 10 town games, I've been nightkilled N1 7 times, one game never saw any scum nightkill, and another had a nerfed NK for scum.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #137 on: December 15, 2018, 12:06:13 pm »

jeez. At some point you have to conclude the scum are doing it on purpose just for the memes.
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #138 on: December 15, 2018, 12:27:56 pm »

NM12: I'm town, scum never kills anybody lol

That was a good game.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #139 on: December 15, 2018, 01:51:31 pm »

jeez. At some point you have to conclude the scum are doing it on purpose just for the memes.

It's often because he's legitimately good at being town!

On the other end of the spectrum, I'm never night killed, unless I'm a PR or something.
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Galzria

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #140 on: December 15, 2018, 02:38:22 pm »

At work until 8EST - will catch up then
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #141 on: December 15, 2018, 05:58:48 pm »

I love how towny people are being right now

Vote: Dylan
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #142 on: December 15, 2018, 06:45:10 pm »

Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.

when you feel like telling us which of my 2 total posts so far hit you as skummy - plz let us know.

This feels like you trying to shift onto a wagon with no reason so you can make one up later.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #143 on: December 15, 2018, 06:45:40 pm »

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

which is one of these things that scum never does.

I don't scumread joth anymore, really at all. Let's vote: DarSwan


I am no pirate! (mis-typed my name in the vote)
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #144 on: December 15, 2018, 06:49:18 pm »

I would love a vote count. Some of these wagons are starting to feel real.
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #145 on: December 15, 2018, 06:52:17 pm »

Swan Count:

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Swan (3): MCMC, Dylan, Silver,
Faust (1): Ashes
MCMC (1): Swan
Dylan (2): Faust, Snow
Jimmmmm (1): , jotheonah
silverspawn (1): , Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #146 on: December 15, 2018, 06:53:33 pm »

Also after finally having time to sit down and read I am at the same point I always am on D1s... which is like no where.... but MCMC's original thing I talked about still seems strange to me so I am staying there for now.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #147 on: December 15, 2018, 07:05:02 pm »

Thanks DatSwan but you have mcmc twice on yours. So itís more like:

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1):, jotheonah
silverspawn (1):  Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan, silver
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan (2): faust, Umbrage

So only L-4. Anybody want to try and sway me to either the Dylan or DatSwan wagons? Both seem possibly scummy to me.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #148 on: December 15, 2018, 07:06:35 pm »

I feel like having trouble getting Day 1 reads tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy: people who talk a lot about lack of information Day 1 have trouble seeing information worth voting over on Day 1, I think in large part because they don't think they can find it.

No, Day 1 cases don't have as much behind them as later day cases, but they aren't based on nothing.

I love that these are the wagons, while I think Dylan is more likely to be scum, I have no reason to think you are town, DatSwan, and I have a mess of townreads.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2018, 07:15:36 pm »

Joth:

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

Dylan doesn't follow this up with a vote, he votes for Swan instead, almost certainly an easier fight than Robz (no offense Swan), plus the lining-up-future-mislynches thing is an easy argument to make to be seen to be having reads while not really being a thing, basically any comments about future days can be lining up mislynches.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #150 on: December 15, 2018, 08:59:47 pm »

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
Jimmmmm (1): jotheonah
Robz888 (1): Galzria
silverspawn (1): Robz888
DatSwan (2): mcmcsalot, Dylan32
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (2): faust, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #151 on: December 15, 2018, 10:09:34 pm »

There are some discrepancies between my vote count and the official one. Possibly because ďDarswanĒ wasnít counted.
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #152 on: December 15, 2018, 10:10:33 pm »

Thanks DatSwan but you have mcmc twice on yours. So itís more like:

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1):, jotheonah
silverspawn (1):  Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan, silver
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan (2): faust, Umbrage

So only L-4. Anybody want to try and sway me to either the Dylan or DatSwan wagons? Both seem possibly scummy to me.

Unintentional sorry - i did it by hand.

Is there a reason you think i am skummy other than lack of participation thus far?
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #153 on: December 15, 2018, 10:11:41 pm »

There are some discrepancies between my vote count and the official one. Possibly because ďDarswanĒ wasnít counted.

Also silver isnít on me bc they spelled my name wrong in vote. I am ďattemptedĒ at (3)
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #154 on: December 15, 2018, 10:13:08 pm »

Joth:

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

Dylan doesn't follow this up with a vote, he votes for Swan instead, almost certainly an easier fight than Robz (no offense Swan), plus the lining-up-future-mislynches thing is an easy argument to make to be seen to be having reads while not really being a thing, basically any comments about future days can be lining up mislynches.

No offense taken - i donít think we have played together before. Once i get into it you will wish i would just stfu. Savor the silence.
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #155 on: December 15, 2018, 10:19:41 pm »

I feel like having trouble getting Day 1 reads tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy: people who talk a lot about lack of information Day 1 have trouble seeing information worth voting over on Day 1, I think in large part because they don't think they can find it.

No, Day 1 cases don't have as much behind them as later day cases, but they aren't based on nothing.

I love that these are the wagons, while I think Dylan is more likely to be scum, I have no reason to think you are town, DatSwan, and I have a mess of townreads.

Donít answer this just consider the question - who do you currently actually consider to be town rn? This comment is just giving you the quote option to go back and vote for either of us. Which is messing with my growing sr on dylan
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Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #156 on: December 16, 2018, 01:13:11 am »

Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here.  I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #157 on: December 16, 2018, 03:01:15 am »

I would love a vote count. Some of these wagons are starting to feel real.
When I read this I suddenly remembered I dream I had tonight ( just woke up ). I was reading this game and there was no vote count in a while, so I wanted to post one. I have this tool that automates them, but I think there are players in here that i don't know yet, so I was going to check into the file of player names and nicknames. Before I opened it I was like "it would suck if this file was lost somehow, I'm going to make a backup copy right now"; then I opened it and it the content was already lost, somehow  :'(

This clearly proves that I'm town because I subconsciously wanted to be helpful.

Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #158 on: December 16, 2018, 03:21:01 am »

Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
Going by avatars, I would vote joth. He seems like he's presenting himself as something he's not.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #159 on: December 16, 2018, 03:23:33 am »

Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here.  I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
So you think whatever it is you found wil help scum!Swan (why? If it's a scumtell, it seems he apparently gave it away) but it will do nothing to help the rest of town seeing that Swan is scum?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #160 on: December 16, 2018, 06:11:02 am »

You can share the scumtell...itís sort of fair play to only use it once against a player.

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #161 on: December 16, 2018, 10:48:38 am »

Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
Going by avatars, I would vote joth. He seems like he's presenting himself as something he's not.

My job is trending more and more toward Bureaucrat every promotion.

Oh wait, you meant the Robz disguise. I think I changed that a long time ago for that bastard game where we were all robz and never changed it back.

Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here.  I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
So you think whatever it is you found wil help scum!Swan (why? If it's a scumtell, it seems he apparently gave it away) but it will do nothing to help the rest of town seeing that Swan is scum?

Yeah Dylan, I think you should tell us what you have at this point. To give you a little additional incentive:

Vote: Dylan

I find the case Umbrage gave to be convincing. I do not approve of avatar-based voting.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #162 on: December 16, 2018, 10:49:49 am »

I was coming here to vote for Dylan even before this recent activity. Vote: Dylan
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #163 on: December 16, 2018, 11:20:37 am »

Ok, thatís L-2. Whatís our policy on claims?
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #164 on: December 16, 2018, 11:37:44 am »

Ok, thatís L-2. Whatís our policy on claims?

Well, we should let Dylan claim if he gets to L-1. Hammering him without giving opportunity for this would be extremely scummy.

I am a fan of short Day 1s, though I am pretty much alone in this.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #165 on: December 16, 2018, 11:54:48 am »

Itís really nice that we donít seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.
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Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #166 on: December 16, 2018, 12:14:33 pm »

Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held.  Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.
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Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #167 on: December 16, 2018, 12:20:19 pm »

Didn't really want to share that until we got a bigger sample this game since 3 votes isn't exactly conclusive, but whatever.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #168 on: December 16, 2018, 02:53:20 pm »

I am a fan of short Day 1s, though I am pretty much alone in this.

I'm with you on this, although I wasn't always I think.  We shouldn't always wait until deadline, and that tends to be a very strong impulse.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #169 on: December 16, 2018, 03:01:24 pm »

Itís really nice that we donít seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.

Yeah, I'm waiting for their promised catchup posts, and I do think it would be bad to end the day before that point.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #170 on: December 16, 2018, 03:52:44 pm »

Itís really nice that we donít seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.

Yeah, I'm waiting for their promised catchup posts, and I do think it would be bad to end the day before that point.
I take it that Dylan's explanation hasn't swayed you?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #171 on: December 16, 2018, 04:12:56 pm »

As far as D1 cases go, not bad at all.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #172 on: December 16, 2018, 05:17:53 pm »

As far as D1 cases go, not bad at all.

Dylan's case on Datswan, you mean?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #173 on: December 16, 2018, 06:10:20 pm »

Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held.  Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.

I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #174 on: December 16, 2018, 07:16:12 pm »

Vote: DatSwan

This is looking more and more like a better lynch.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #175 on: December 16, 2018, 07:19:20 pm »

Vote Count 1.3

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, jotheonah
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, Robz888

Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

NOTE: Three votes have been rejected by my vote counter so far: "josh", "DarSwan" and "MCMC". The last is arguable, though I think it's definitely weird to all-caps-ify a nickname based on a name that has no upper-case characters. I have just been mulling over adding it to the alias list, but to do so now would make VCs 1.2 incorrect/inconsistent with VC1.3, so I'm not going to.
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #176 on: December 16, 2018, 08:15:18 pm »

Vote: DatSwan

This is looking more and more like a better lynch.

I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #177 on: December 16, 2018, 08:41:54 pm »

Vote: DatSwan

This is looking more and more like a better lynch.

I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?

The case against Dylan was based on a comment about Robz that was followed up by an unexplained vote on you. He's explained that vote now and it makes sense to me, as does his reason for not explaining it. So I've soured on that wagon.

Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases. Playing the game as scum is just more stressful, the stakes are higher if you get lynched, and it's hard to resist fighting against every vote against you and feeling like you're in more danger than you actually are -- even if you're aware of the possibility that it's a tell. Which isn't to say that town don't get defensive too, especially at 4 or 5 votes, but scum are, on balance, more likely to get more defensive sooner.

And then when I look back at your posts, as Umbrage said, I have no particular reason to believe you're town.

And then there's this response to Dylan's case:

Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held.  Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.

I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.

Now I'm not familiar with the game in question, and perhaps my next step should be to look over it. But even without that knowledge to me, your reply seems like a willful misunderstanding of his case. Dylan isn't "comparing a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play". He's saying that in that game, as town, you didn't react to a vote on you UNTIL Day 4. So he's comparing Day 1 play there to Day 1 play here, and only referring to Day 4 to emphasize his point, but you're twisting it up to make his case seem worse than it actually is. Which is a scummy way to defend yourself.

On a similar note, you say "I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game." But Dylan didn't say you were. He said "the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon." So again, not refuting what he said but mischaracterizing it.

I think I'm going to go browse that game -- Towny Mafia, right? -- and see if I agree with Dylan's characterization or with yours.
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #178 on: December 16, 2018, 08:42:36 pm »

So I am not going to go back and quote post every single game that refutes the concept of me directly dealing with cases made on me when I am Town. But in the previous 4 games I have been skum and town. In the instances where I was Town, here are the two games where I do the exactly what Dylan is claiming I would not do as town. Feel free to read back on me all the way to M105 (first game)... it is littered with continuing support of this.


1) M118 - I am Town. Galz votes for me and I immediately engage him in a lengthy 1-on-1, which includes me voting for him.
vote: Datswan


2) M117 - I am Town. This is the beginning of Day 2 where a case is attempting to be built on me and I directly refute it all the way from the start, up until my mis-lynch.
Wasnít asked or me so i am not answering the question per se - but i would like to point out this is a faulty silogism. One could absolutely assume that ďif player A flips skum, they also think it makes Player B look skummy, while simotainiously assuming if Player A flips town it does not mean anything in regards to Player B.Ē

No. You can absolutely not correctly do this, under no circumstances, never ever ever ever. if A coming true is evidence for B, then A coming false must be evidence against B. This is provable from first principles. See here..

This is a game with interactions and variables. Every interaction is at a minimum a two way street. It is not a math problem. I am not arguing with youíre defn of the theory, just the application of it here.


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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #179 on: December 16, 2018, 08:43:18 pm »

Vote: DatSwan

This is looking more and more like a better lynch.

I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?

The case against Dylan was based on a comment about Robz that was followed up by an unexplained vote on you. He's explained that vote now and it makes sense to me, as does his reason for not explaining it. So I've soured on that wagon.

Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases. Playing the game as scum is just more stressful, the stakes are higher if you get lynched, and it's hard to resist fighting against every vote against you and feeling like you're in more danger than you actually are -- even if you're aware of the possibility that it's a tell. Which isn't to say that town don't get defensive too, especially at 4 or 5 votes, but scum are, on balance, more likely to get more defensive sooner.

And then when I look back at your posts, as Umbrage said, I have no particular reason to believe you're town.

And then there's this response to Dylan's case:

Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held.  Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.

I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.

Now I'm not familiar with the game in question, and perhaps my next step should be to look over it. But even without that knowledge to me, your reply seems like a willful misunderstanding of his case. Dylan isn't "comparing a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play". He's saying that in that game, as town, you didn't react to a vote on you UNTIL Day 4. So he's comparing Day 1 play there to Day 1 play here, and only referring to Day 4 to emphasize his point, but you're twisting it up to make his case seem worse than it actually is. Which is a scummy way to defend yourself.

On a similar note, you say "I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game." But Dylan didn't say you were. He said "the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon." So again, not refuting what he said but mischaracterizing it.

I think I'm going to go browse that game -- Towny Mafia, right? -- and see if I agree with Dylan's characterization or with yours.


please read PPE post. If you need more games I can bring them up it if absolutely required, but I would appreciate it if you could just do it yourself.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #180 on: December 16, 2018, 09:26:38 pm »

Alright. I just skimmed M119. And it took me 40 minutes, so sorry, I'm not going to skim M118 and M117 too. I'm not LaLight.

(Speaking of which prod request: lalight-- he hasn't posted since the 14th at 11 am)

But looking at M119, Dylan's case is accurate, if a bit misleading. DatSwan basically never defends himself all game, but also he doesn't get voted for all game more than a handful of times, and as far as I can tell never had two votes on him at once.

Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.

Like I said, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of rereading every game DatSwan has been in, but those of you who have been around for more of them, I'll certainly listen if you think I'm off base. I am going to shut up for a while and let other people catch up and respond.
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DatSwan

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #181 on: December 16, 2018, 10:15:00 pm »

Alright. I just skimmed M119. And it took me 40 minutes, so sorry, I'm not going to skim M118 and M117 too. I'm not LaLight.

(Speaking of which prod request: lalight-- he hasn't posted since the 14th at 11 am)

But looking at M119, Dylan's case is accurate, if a bit misleading. DatSwan basically never defends himself all game, but also he doesn't get voted for all game more than a handful of times, and as far as I can tell never had two votes on him at once.

Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.

Like I said, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of rereading every game DatSwan has been in, but those of you who have been around for more of them, I'll certainly listen if you think I'm off base. I am going to shut up for a while and let other people catch up and respond.

Iíve been around for all of them - you should listen to me.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #182 on: December 16, 2018, 10:25:15 pm »

Also you said it yourself - i never defended myself bc i was never threatened with actually being lynched. When i responded to this i had half the votes on me already since i last logged in and had zero. Who wouldnít defend themselves?
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Dylan32

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #183 on: December 17, 2018, 12:23:31 am »

Also you said it yourself - i never defended myself bc i was never threatened with actually being lynched. When i responded to this i had half the votes on me already since i last logged in and had zero. Who wouldnít defend themselves?

Actually, you only had one vote on you (mcmc), then you self-admitedly OMGUSed him "for being lazy," and then a few posts later and I voted, and you responded to my vote also. You could argue that mcmc's one vote there didn't really have you in any danger, so why respond at all, or at least why feel the need to call out the vote as lazy and return the favor? So you can't say you woke up and suddenly had a lot more votes on you before you responded.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #184 on: December 17, 2018, 12:23:57 am »

To be clear, I was just referring to this game, not the last one.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #185 on: December 17, 2018, 12:30:46 am »

There's also a difference between responding to a vote that doesn't have or doesn't seem like it has much to it (which is where I admittedly should have just kept my mouth shut and voted without saying anything at all) and rebutting an actual stated case. I think most people would react to specific cases against them, but as scum would feel more pressure to react to every (or at least most) vote(s). I'm not claiming every scum would do that, mind you, but the pressure would likely still be there in the back of their mind moreso than in their town games.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #186 on: December 17, 2018, 12:56:05 am »

Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.
Which ways?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #187 on: December 17, 2018, 01:06:43 am »

Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases.
I strongly disagree. Being defensive and challenging votes helps keep the game active and is good pro-town play. I have seen scum trying to ignore votes on them way more often because they don't want to draw additional attention to themselves. Plus I support DatSwan in that this isn't off-meta for him.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #188 on: December 17, 2018, 02:34:17 am »

Hi guys, sorry for the weekends, signature alert
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #189 on: December 17, 2018, 02:37:02 am »

I'm sorry, but I feel like both Dylan and DatSwan wagons are misleading
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #190 on: December 17, 2018, 02:38:38 am »

looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #191 on: December 17, 2018, 02:40:50 am »

I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #192 on: December 17, 2018, 02:42:59 am »

looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you? Can you also detail what you mean about mcmc? I'm afraid your original post didn't quite convince me:

vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum

And is there another reason to vote for ash beside your assertion that there is a strong scumteam?

PPE: Not to me.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #193 on: December 17, 2018, 03:50:20 am »

looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you? Can you also detail what you mean about mcmc? I'm afraid your original post didn't quite convince me:

vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum

And is there another reason to vote for ash beside your assertion that there is a strong scumteam?

PPE: Not to me.

I think mcmc's initial vote for DatSwan was forced as if he was trying to participate seriously taking the RVS post and making it a scumread.

See:

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?

I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.

All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere

I am voting for ash, because he didn't come up with some crazy plan still and overall his posts lack content, as for I usually remember of ash.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #194 on: December 17, 2018, 03:53:55 am »

How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you?

well, I am not scum. All the oher players in the list are very strong players, especially when scums: (here I sterted listing everyone I am afraid to be scum and then I just copied the whole list). That's the reason. Of course it makes town strong as well, but I feel like there is such a huge amount of WIFOM that it's actually isn't worth to talk about, but I am answering your question
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #195 on: December 17, 2018, 04:15:47 am »

I'm sorry, but I feel like both Dylan and DatSwan wagons are misleading

Agreed. I'm not buying into any of the cases that have been made so far, including my own.

vote: ash
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #196 on: December 17, 2018, 08:02:14 am »

hey all. Just popping in to say that I'm going to need to stay away for probably all day today. Too much to do at work to fall into the forum mafia wormhole.

Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.
Which ways?

I'll just do this now because I hate to leave direct questions to me unanswered.

He just reads completely different. In that game, he pops in very occasionally, but whenever he does it's to do some serious high-effort scumhunting posts. This game his posts were mostly low-effort contentless posts until he started defending himself, when his posts started to get long and intricate and frequent. Skim it yourself and see.
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ashersky

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #197 on: December 17, 2018, 08:27:37 am »

This is my own setup.  Itís specifically made to resist town plans.

Also, lack of content was announced from the beginning.  Iím a different player nowadays, activity/life wise.

Re: Robz, yes.

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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

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2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #198 on: December 17, 2018, 08:28:58 am »

Also, scum points for LL for the lazy ďno planĒ vote.

vote: ss for the even lazier follow.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

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2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
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Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #199 on: December 17, 2018, 09:09:26 am »

I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #200 on: December 17, 2018, 09:10:48 am »

I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?

well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #201 on: December 17, 2018, 09:15:26 am »

I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?

well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
So how do you think our little exchange where you withheld the information only to reveal it in literally your next post helped the town effort? I know that withholding information can be good, but I don't understand why you think that would apply in this case.
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LaLight

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #202 on: December 17, 2018, 10:17:49 am »

I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?

well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
So how do you think our little exchange where you withheld the information only to reveal it in literally your next post helped the town effort? I know that withholding information can be good, but I don't understand why you think that would apply in this case.

Well, my little plan was for someone to play along (thatís why there was really some rason behind my words) and maybe make ash nervous and see the reaction, but when I got a direct question, i thought it would be much better just to answer it so the point is moot.

vote: mcmc
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #203 on: December 17, 2018, 12:23:04 pm »

Right right I shouldn't blindly follow LaLight's vote on ash. vote: mcmc. See, I did better!
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #204 on: December 17, 2018, 12:45:47 pm »

Iím caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faustís post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I donít like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.

I really want to vote lalight which means heís probably town.

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #205 on: December 17, 2018, 12:57:09 pm »

Vote Count 1.4

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, silverspawn
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (2): Dylan32, jotheonah
Dylan32 (3): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot


Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #206 on: December 17, 2018, 01:46:55 pm »

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I was not joking. I made a case questioning joth's town motviation, had a chat with him, and concluded that he just thinks differently about the game and what he said was pretty much no evidence.
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #207 on: December 17, 2018, 01:53:09 pm »

@joth, is 'he' the right pronoun?
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #208 on: December 17, 2018, 02:08:02 pm »

@joth, is 'he' the right pronoun?

It is, but thanks for asking!
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #209 on: December 17, 2018, 03:00:49 pm »

My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)

@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #210 on: December 17, 2018, 04:16:01 pm »

My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)

@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?

Your vote had a great reason and I find you towny for it. It was the following votes that I found scummy.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #211 on: December 17, 2018, 04:34:25 pm »

Iím caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faustís post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I donít like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.

I really want to vote lalight which means heís probably town.

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #212 on: December 17, 2018, 08:02:59 pm »

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #213 on: December 17, 2018, 08:56:12 pm »

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

And yet your vote remains on ashersky.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #214 on: December 17, 2018, 09:51:52 pm »

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

And yet your vote remains on ashersky.

Always a good lynch.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #215 on: December 17, 2018, 10:52:48 pm »

Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #216 on: December 17, 2018, 11:38:16 pm »

Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.

I guess you forgot to bold? Is this because you actually think I'm scum or because my last comment annoyed you?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #217 on: December 18, 2018, 03:34:11 am »

I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.
They can't all be the best wagon ever.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #218 on: December 18, 2018, 03:35:48 am »

My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)

@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?
I don't think I was. It is still possible that Dylan's subsequent explanation of his vote convinced you that he's town even if you voted him originally for some other reason.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #219 on: December 18, 2018, 03:37:08 am »

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Any reason you put down mcmc as major lynch candidate and not silver (who has the same number of votes)?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #220 on: December 18, 2018, 03:40:24 am »

Anyways my vote on Dylan has outlived its usefulness. Vote: mcmc
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #221 on: December 18, 2018, 06:20:05 am »

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Any reason you put down mcmc as major lynch candidate and not silver (who has the same number of votes)?

No. I'll have a look at silver.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #222 on: December 18, 2018, 09:19:40 am »

I think I'm still happy with my vote on Dylan. I am realizing Umbrage is quite an under scrutinized player today.
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #223 on: December 18, 2018, 09:35:23 am »

Iím caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faustís post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I donít like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.

I really want to vote lalight which means heís probably town.

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.

If you agree with that, it implies that you have some kind of problem with the explanation I gave above, because as I see it, the thing on me is just a point of confusion. So what's wrong with my explanation?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #224 on: December 18, 2018, 09:53:12 am »

Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.

I guess you forgot to bold? Is this because you actually think I'm scum or because my last comment annoyed you?

I donít vote for people unless I think theyíre scum. vote: jimmmm

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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #225 on: December 18, 2018, 11:27:49 am »

Iím caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faustís post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I donít like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.

I really want to vote lalight which means heís probably town.

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.

If you agree with that, it implies that you have some kind of problem with the explanation I gave above, because as I see it, the thing on me is just a point of confusion. So what's wrong with my explanation?

Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #226 on: December 18, 2018, 11:34:58 am »

We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.

The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.

So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.

I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #227 on: December 18, 2018, 11:37:30 am »

Vote: SS
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #228 on: December 18, 2018, 12:21:39 pm »

He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #229 on: December 18, 2018, 12:25:16 pm »

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #230 on: December 18, 2018, 12:29:48 pm »

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they donít give me any reason to get onboard, and youíre going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #231 on: December 18, 2018, 12:39:15 pm »

He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #232 on: December 18, 2018, 12:39:51 pm »

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they donít give me any reason to get onboard, and youíre going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
What do you think of mcmc?
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #233 on: December 18, 2018, 12:40:15 pm »

He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #234 on: December 18, 2018, 12:51:45 pm »

He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they donít give me any reason to get onboard, and youíre going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
What do you think of mcmc?

He reads very towny to me.
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faust

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #235 on: December 18, 2018, 12:55:20 pm »

He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.
If you can hold him accountable now, why couldn't you hold him accountable then?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #236 on: December 18, 2018, 01:06:47 pm »

He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.
If you can hold him accountable now, why couldn't you hold him accountable then?
Anyone can hold anyone accountable for anything. But if you make a case, it can be responded to and holes can be poked in it and it might even contain a contradiction that could constitute a scumslip or make the vote seem ungenuine. If you just sheep or make a joke, there's nothing to analyze. Plus it draws less attention than an actual case and you don't have to worry about putting out reads that be analyzed later.

To summarize, it gets the town closer to a lynch without helping the town scumhunt or creating any useful information, and ideally lets the person in question fade into the background in the way scum likes to do. Silver's biggest contribution to the game so far has been a lengthy argument with me that was as much theory talk as it was anything else.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #237 on: December 18, 2018, 01:09:32 pm »

inb4 faust says that clearly it does draw attention because it's drawing attention from me now. To which I would reply, yes, intentions are not the same as outcomes, and also most of the SS votes are not based on the pattern I'm describing but instead based on people finding things like his comment about not liking his own case scummy.

now faust, are you willing to answer some questions or do you only ask them?

Why are you voting for mcmc?

What do you think of silver?

Do you think you deserve Robz's day 1 pass?
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #238 on: December 18, 2018, 01:29:47 pm »

I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #239 on: December 18, 2018, 02:06:52 pm »

I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #240 on: December 18, 2018, 02:15:15 pm »

Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.

I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #241 on: December 18, 2018, 02:15:50 pm »

Just a few posts above:

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I was not joking. I made a case questioning joth's town motviation, had a chat with him, and concluded that he just thinks differently about the game and what he said was pretty much no evidence.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #242 on: December 18, 2018, 02:16:19 pm »

Like you  just completely ignored what I was actually asking.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #243 on: December 18, 2018, 02:17:48 pm »

Anyway. vote: Jimmm
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #244 on: December 18, 2018, 02:20:26 pm »

I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #245 on: December 18, 2018, 02:20:36 pm »

There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.

Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #246 on: December 18, 2018, 02:22:14 pm »

I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Kind of weird, but probably (mildly) town indicative. Town worries less about what is immediately relevant than scum does.

Also "that's just what I was thinking and I'm town, so you must be town" is a plausible thought process.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #247 on: December 18, 2018, 02:24:33 pm »

I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Kind of weird, but probably (mildly) town indicative. Town worries less about what is immediately relevant than scum does.

Also "that's just what I was thinking and I'm town, so you must be town" is a plausible thought process.

Especially given the twinclaim. Maybe the subtext here is that we can trust brothers to soul-read each other. Which I think is probably true more times than not but far from guaranteed.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #248 on: December 18, 2018, 02:47:44 pm »

We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.

The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.

So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.

I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? Itís not superstrong, but it exists
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #249 on: December 18, 2018, 02:49:01 pm »

I donít see any case on Jimmmmm for what itís worth
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #250 on: December 18, 2018, 02:50:23 pm »

We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.

The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.

So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.

I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? Itís not superstrong, but it exists

I looked for it! Care to link or restate?
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #251 on: December 18, 2018, 02:53:59 pm »

NVM I found it! It's based on his DatSwan vote feeling forced.
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jotheonah

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #252 on: December 18, 2018, 02:56:33 pm »

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?

I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.

All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere

I apologize for saying your vote was unexplained. I was skimming and I only saw your initial RVS mcmc vote.
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silverspawn

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #253 on: December 18, 2018, 02:57:33 pm »

Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? Itís not superstrong, but it exists

Not feeling it.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #254 on: December 18, 2018, 04:18:43 pm »

I would like to point out the large shift in ssís posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.

Jimmmmmmís low activity is generally a town liability, as seen in some very far past games, but when he is town and plays the late game, heís a force.

The more Faust annoys you, the more likely he is to end up town. He knows this and Iím sure tries to play to it, but I donít know how well he does at it. I donít know why he keeps getting NKed early; at this point it seems like living on D3 is a strong enough case to mislynch.

Others are unremarkable, generally.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #255 on: December 18, 2018, 04:21:47 pm »

I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.

@faust: No, I didn't find that post notably towny. Null on it.
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Robz888

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #256 on: December 18, 2018, 04:21:54 pm »

I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Mcmc and I ICíd each other, basically, which is good.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #257 on: December 18, 2018, 04:22:53 pm »

Could we get a votecount and a prod on Galz please?
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #258 on: December 18, 2018, 04:27:33 pm »

I would like to point out the large shift in ssís posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.

Jimmmmmmís low activity is generally a town liability, as seen in some very far past games, but when he is town and plays the late game, heís a force.

The more Faust annoys you, the more likely he is to end up town. He knows this and Iím sure tries to play to it, but I donít know how well he does at it. I donít know why he keeps getting NKed early; at this point it seems like living on D3 is a strong enough case to mislynch.

Others are unremarkable, generally.

Faust doesnít generally annoy me; this statement may be true for other players. Town Faust and town galz seem to get under each otherís skins.

Speaking of Galz, Iím sure he will show up eventually, and heís not really a good Day 1 lynch, so I am inclined to just ignore his absence for now.

Ashís point about Silver is solid.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #259 on: December 18, 2018, 04:30:27 pm »

I'm not inclined to lynch Galz today either, but I really wish he'd show up and say some stuff.
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Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #260 on: December 18, 2018, 05:00:18 pm »

I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Mcmc and I ICíd each other, basically, which is good.

Unless you're scumbuddies of course.
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