Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: (Almost) Total random Dominion  (Read 2582 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Simon Jester

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeyzemlan
  • changed life, changed everything
  • Respect: +187
    • View Profile
(Almost) Total random Dominion
« on: November 21, 2018, 07:41:23 am »
+1

Most of us know about the randomizer/"Black Market Ultimate" variant, where you play with ten piles of randomizer cards instead of a normal kingdom. It's a lot of fun, but really not random enough for my twisted mind. Lately I've been thinking of a variant I haven't seen discussed here and I'm curious what you would think of it and if you possible have done or thought of something similar. The idea is:

Ignore the supply and setup 16 piles. At random. No guaranteed curses, nor Provinces. Just go through the randomizerdeck and see what happens. All cards that require certain cards should be respected, so when a curser is chosen include curses, when Province is named include Province (but as extra piles) et cetera. For balance reason the rule should be to have at least three victory piles and three treasures but if you are crazy like me it may be optional. This should lead to some very hilarious games, so when playing just for shits and giggles why not try it?

Unfortunately I own too few cards to do it myself, but next time we are on our way to playing BMU I will propose this.
Logged
S

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1284
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1971
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2018, 03:59:26 pm »
0

Given that the vast majority of VP cards are much cheaper than Province, it seems this would usually lead to short games, where a lot is dependent on luck.
Logged

Simon Jester

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeyzemlan
  • changed life, changed everything
  • Respect: +187
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 04:13:32 pm »
0

Given that the vast majority of VP cards are much cheaper than Province, it seems this would usually lead to short games, where a lot is dependent on luck.

Not necessarily. Instead you are more likely to have more alt-VP that wants you to increase game length, can probably go both ways.
Logged
S

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2018, 04:40:46 pm »
0

Doesn't sound appealing to me. Kingdom cards could provide no Coins. Something like Silk Road or Farmland would be pointless without basic Victory cards.
Basic Treasures and Victory cards exist for a reason: to get into the game somehow and to end the game somehow.
Logged

Simon Jester

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeyzemlan
  • changed life, changed everything
  • Respect: +187
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 05:13:48 pm »
0

Doesn't sound appealing to me. Kingdom cards could provide no Coins. Something like Silk Road or Farmland would be pointless without basic Victory cards.
Basic Treasures and Victory cards exist for a reason: to get into the game somehow and to end the game somehow.

Hm. But Silk Road will only lose one pile if it gets chosen a supply pile, a nerf yes, but not pointless at all - and yes, you would naturally lose some interactions but would hopefully gain some others. Maybe.

Also, I guess the point with trying something like this would be to appreciate on another level what the basic stuff actually do for you and the gameplay. I wouldn't count on that there were some really exciting stuff to happen, but I can't help myself to wonder if there would.
Logged
S

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 05:53:08 pm »
0

Why don't you simply add more Kingdom piles without getting rid of what you actually need to make the game work?
Logged

Simon Jester

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeyzemlan
  • changed life, changed everything
  • Respect: +187
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 06:19:53 pm »
0

Why don't you simply add more Kingdom piles without getting rid of what you actually need to make the game work?

Why do you think this version would be unplayable? There always is a decent chance to include Provinces, the victory cards are fairly limited, and a few kingdom cards reference Province as well. I'm more worried about Silver in that case, with that gone and an expansive game can make the game ridiculous in a bad way. There could be reasons to have a rule to always include at least one money producing >3$, even though it violates my idea somewhat.

The point is by the way to have a silly and hopefully novel experience. I don't know if you have played what I called "black market ultimate" but those games are not especially balanced to express it lightly.. That's not what make them fun.

If you don't want to fool around with Dominion, that's totally fine, but this variant is not suggested to better Dominion, of course not. It's suggested to degenerate it to something fun enough to make it worth a try. If that's not the case, ah well..
Logged
S

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 06:45:26 pm »
0

Why don't you simply add more Kingdom piles without getting rid of what you actually need to make the game work?
Why do you think this version would be unplayable?

Basic Treasures and Victory cards exist for a reason: to get into the game somehow and to end the game somehow.

There are plenty of Kingdoms without virtual coins. Of course a Kingdom with 16 Kingdom cards is more likely to include enough Coin producing Action cards but this just shifts the game towards more terminals. And in order to play 2 Treasurers to get that Farmlands you need 2 villages.
Terminal space shortages are compensated via the higher likelihood of several villages in the Kingdom but I see little fun in a tedious buildup of e.g. 3 Fortune Tellers and 1 or 2 splitters that you have to do because Silver is not available.

Also note that a part of the fun of alt-VP is in the alt: non-mirrors where some players go for Provinces and some go for Vineyards.
Logged

Simon Jester

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeyzemlan
  • changed life, changed everything
  • Respect: +187
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 07:00:38 pm »
0

Why don't you simply add more Kingdom piles without getting rid of what you actually need to make the game work?
Why do you think this version would be unplayable?

Basic Treasures and Victory cards exist for a reason: to get into the game somehow and to end the game somehow.

There are plenty of Kingdoms without virtual coins. Of course a Kingdom with 16 Kingdom cards is more likely to include enough Coin producing Action cards but this just shifts the game towards more terminals. And in order to play 2 Treasurers to get that Farmlands you need 2 villages.
Terminal space shortages are compensated via the higher likelihood of several villages in the Kingdom but I see little fun in a tedious buildup of e.g. 3 Fortune Tellers and 1 or 2 splitters that you have to do because Silver is not available.

Also note that a part of the fun of alt-VP is in the alt: non-mirrors where some players go for Provinces and some go for Vineyards.

You will still play with at least 3 treasure cards and in roughly 10% of games you will have Silver included, so I don't really see your point here..

What makes you think that different strategies wouldn't be viable only because the victory cards would be different..?

You can still end the game via 3-piling, if necessary you could add " when the most expensive victory card empties" as a condition too, but it seems less.. random. This is Total random Dominion. Not Totally playable Dominion.
Logged
S

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 07:08:45 pm »
0

Why don't you simply add more Kingdom piles without getting rid of what you actually need to make the game work?
Why do you think this version would be unplayable?

Basic Treasures and Victory cards exist for a reason: to get into the game somehow and to end the game somehow.

There are plenty of Kingdoms without virtual coins. Of course a Kingdom with 16 Kingdom cards is more likely to include enough Coin producing Action cards but this just shifts the game towards more terminals. And in order to play 2 Treasurers to get that Farmlands you need 2 villages.
Terminal space shortages are compensated via the higher likelihood of several villages in the Kingdom but I see little fun in a tedious buildup of e.g. 3 Fortune Tellers and 1 or 2 splitters that you have to do because Silver is not available.

Also note that a part of the fun of alt-VP is in the alt: non-mirrors where some players go for Provinces and some go for Vineyards.
I don't really see your point here..
[].... Not Totally playable Dominion.
My point is the one you just made yourself: not playable. Well, technically it will be playable but it won't be a good gaming experience for very obvious reasons.
If I suggested a variant in which you'd have 7 Silvers in your starting deck I would not expect that anybody would like it.
Logged

Simon Jester

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeyzemlan
  • changed life, changed everything
  • Respect: +187
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 07:10:43 pm »
0

Why don't you simply add more Kingdom piles without getting rid of what you actually need to make the game work?
Why do you think this version would be unplayable?

Basic Treasures and Victory cards exist for a reason: to get into the game somehow and to end the game somehow.

There are plenty of Kingdoms without virtual coins. Of course a Kingdom with 16 Kingdom cards is more likely to include enough Coin producing Action cards but this just shifts the game towards more terminals. And in order to play 2 Treasurers to get that Farmlands you need 2 villages.
Terminal space shortages are compensated via the higher likelihood of several villages in the Kingdom but I see little fun in a tedious buildup of e.g. 3 Fortune Tellers and 1 or 2 splitters that you have to do because Silver is not available.

Also note that a part of the fun of alt-VP is in the alt: non-mirrors where some players go for Provinces and some go for Vineyards.
I don't really see your point here..
[].... Not Totally playable Dominion.
My point is the one you just made yourself: not playable. Well, technically it will be playable but it won't be a good gaming experience for very obvious reasons.
If I suggested a variant in which you'd have 7 Silvers in your starting deck I would not expect that anybody would like it.

Have you played "Black market ultimate"? If not or if you didn't like it I frankly don't give much of your opinion. This suggestion is not for you, simply.
Logged
S

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 07:23:30 pm »
0

Have you played "Black market ultimate"? If not or if you didn't like it I frankly don't give much of your opinion. This suggestion is not for you, simply.
Your suggestion to get rid of basic Supply cards is unrelated to "Black Market Ultimate" which seems to emulate a rotating Supply. So your notion that me lacking experience about a Dominion variant with a rotating Supply disqualifies me from pointing out that getting rid of basic Supply cards is plain bad seems like a fairly huge non-sequitur.
Logged

Simon Jester

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 186
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeyzemlan
  • changed life, changed everything
  • Respect: +187
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 07:46:34 pm »
0

Have you played "Black market ultimate"? If not or if you didn't like it I frankly don't give much of your opinion. This suggestion is not for you, simply.
Your suggestion to get rid of basic Supply cards is unrelated to "Black Market Ultimate" which seems to emulate a rotating Supply. So your notion that me lacking experience about a Dominion variant with a rotating Supply disqualifies me from pointing out that getting rid of basic Supply cards is plain bad seems like a fairly huge non-sequitur.

Rotating supply? Well, it's 100 unique cards with only 10 known at any given time. It's not balanced, it's not good. It's a lot of fun.

Maybe this won't be, But I assure you it wont be as unbalanced as you implying. A lot of the times Coppers, Silvers and Gold will be included simply due to other cards referencing them and there isn''t that many Treasures to begin with and the same goes for Victory cards. Yes, I admit I'm crazy and I would love to play this variant without any guarantees AT ALL, would you believe it? But I'm asking it here because maybe, maybe I'm not the only one to wonder how Dominion would play without say Duchies, or if maybe Curses or Estates aren't included. Maybe someone would think this would be fun to try and report back to me how it went.

You won't probably. Okidok, bad for me, no problem for you. Have a nice day or whatever you might be having where you are :)     
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 07:47:41 pm by Simon Jester »
Logged
S

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +380
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 07:53:32 pm »
0

Rotating supply?
Well, you didn't actually specify the rules but I guess that this Black Market variant is supposed to work like deckbuilders with a rotating Supply (e.g. Star Realms), i.e. the Suppy piles contain only 1 copy and at the end of each players turn empty Supply piles are refilled with a new Kingdom pile that contains again only 1 copy.
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 337
  • Respect: +134
    • View Profile
Re: (Almost) Total random Dominion
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 12:55:07 pm »
0

Rotating supply?
Well, you didn't actually specify the rules but I guess that this Black Market variant is supposed to work like deckbuilders with a rotating Supply (e.g. Star Realms), i.e. the Suppy piles contain only 1 copy and at the end of each players turn empty Supply piles are refilled with a new Kingdom pile that contains again only 1 copy.

Not speaking for OP but there may be a point of having each pile capped at 10 cards, so that the game can theoretically end at some point. Or at some cost of cards.

A maybe-fun additional variant would be to ensure that whenever you buy a card from a pile, the next card must cost more than it. Or equal-to-or-more. So then the game eventually ends with all piles being ~Provinces or ~Colonies.

At that point you probably want to start with lesser-cost cards, 2s and 3s. Or not.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.054 seconds with 21 queries.