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Author Topic: old cards that have gotten better  (Read 2052 times)

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ehunt

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old cards that have gotten better
« on: November 17, 2018, 02:52:16 pm »
+3

Name a card that's a few expansions old that is better now than when it came out. That means that the card itself has improved because it is good on more boards (thanks to the new expansions), not that the community has gotten better at playing the card. Then, argue that the other people are wrong.

EXAMPLES:
Counting House (this one's easy; there's two game-winning combos with Counting House where there used to be zero.)
Band of Misfits (not sure why but def. true -- broadly: more good 4s, more cards favoring tactical decisions / flexibility)
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faust

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2018, 03:22:11 pm »
+1

Village.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Beyond Awesome

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2018, 03:58:47 pm »
+1

Remodel
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2018, 04:00:31 pm »
+2

Theif
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2018, 05:02:59 pm »
+4

Beggar has gotten two new combos with Triumph and Monastery.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2018, 05:20:10 pm »
+2

Beggar has gotten two new combos with Triumph and Monastery.

And more importantly, Guildhall.
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Simon Jester

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2018, 07:43:12 am »
0

Hermit

It's not only market square that can provide the megaturn any longer (although it's clearly the easiest..)
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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2018, 08:26:53 am »
+9

It's worth noting that just because a card has gotten more situations where it's good doesn't mean it has gotten better overall, because the number of situations where it isn't good has also increased.
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crj

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2018, 09:35:00 am »
0

Mmm. In that sense, the prosaic answer may be that all actions giving coin but not buy have got better, because Renaissance works to increase the proportion of cards that give +Buy.
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ackmondual

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 03:50:46 am »
0

Counting House with Silos
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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 05:57:12 am »
+12

Old Coppers get better over time because you can tell what they are from the back.
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Dsell

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 10:19:55 am »
+3

Mine got a lot better with Platinum and kingdom treasures, and now it's a pretty terrific combo with Capitalism.
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Limetime

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 12:01:44 pm »
+1

scout
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Oyvind

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 05:57:18 am »
+1

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crj

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 10:24:25 am »
+1

Mine got a lot better with Platinum and kingdom treasures, and now it's a pretty terrific combo with Capitalism.

It's almost inevitable that any card will find itself as part of more combos as Dominion continues to expand. But is Mine now better on a greater proportion of boards?
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Dsell

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2018, 05:41:28 pm »
0

Mine got a lot better with Platinum and kingdom treasures, and now it's a pretty terrific combo with Capitalism.

It's almost inevitable that any card will find itself as part of more combos as Dominion continues to expand. But is Mine now better on a greater proportion of boards?

I think with the inclusion of kingdom treasures in several sets but not in base, the answer to this is almost definitely yes. The only reason that might not be true is the fact that base Dominion (1st ed.) had a lot of pretty weak cards.
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greybirdofprey

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2018, 08:08:15 pm »
0

Black Market? Did the proportion of cards you usually want increase?
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ipofanes

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2018, 03:19:31 am »
0

Black Market? Did the proportion of cards you usually want increase?

I would think not, many game mechanics that came later work better on proper kingdom cards, like Knights, Castles, Magpies, Travellers, to a lesser extent split piles. Only Rats can be a fantastic addition as a Junk Dealer lite.

In contrast, the amount of spammable cards has decreased (one of the developments I like most). A Torturer from the Black Market is not an elite card, a Conspirator is skippable if setting up your deck for activating it is tedious (you'd do this for a Conspirator chain but not a single one). There are some cards that are slightly less useful as singletons.
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Simon Jester

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2018, 08:20:54 am »
0

Black Market? Did the proportion of cards you usually want increase?

I would think not, many game mechanics that came later work better on proper kingdom cards, like Knights, Castles, Magpies, Travellers, to a lesser extent split piles. Only Rats can be a fantastic addition as a Junk Dealer lite.

In contrast, the amount of spammable cards has decreased (one of the developments I like most). A Torturer from the Black Market is not an elite card, a Conspirator is skippable if setting up your deck for activating it is tedious (you'd do this for a Conspirator chain but not a single one). There are some cards that are slightly less useful as singletons.

Hm. To grab the single Knight from the BM-deck is usually better than having to compete about them in the Kingdom since the opponents can't neutralise them as easily, if at all. It becomes essentially a Saboteur, which in certain situations can be game-deciding (been on both sides, it's rough)
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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2018, 03:26:45 pm »
0

Could be anecdotal, but I feel like Treasure Map has gotten a lot better over the years. It's gone from a card I always ignore to one I actively look at, and enabling cards seem to be in far more games.
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Chris is me

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2018, 06:12:55 pm »
0

Hermit

It's not only market square that can provide the megaturn any longer (although it's clearly the easiest..)

Did you get this backwards? Market Square got better combos so you can do it with more than  Hermit?
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Simon Jester

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2018, 06:24:07 pm »
0

Hermit

It's not only market square that can provide the megaturn any longer (although it's clearly the easiest..)

Did you get this backwards? Market Square got better combos so you can do it with more than  Hermit?

No, actually not. I managed to do the same thing with Worker's village and Lucky coin and it taught me that the only thing you need for Madman-shenanings is a good +buy card (preferably cantrips) and some way to get lots of coin-payload fast. Granted, hermit+market square does it on an whole other level than the things I have found, and maybe how to use Hermit properly is common knowledge, but at least Hermit has elevated a LOT for me in the latest. From a slightly awkward trasher to a potential powerhouse when the board is right, which is pretty often in my experience.
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ackmondual

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Re: old cards that have gotten better
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2018, 01:48:23 pm »
0

Baths + Exploration
I've seen cases where Baths have helped them win games.  Sink your $4 into Exploration, and may as well get a Coffer and Villager for every "Bath turn" you take.

Mine got a lot better with Platinum and kingdom treasures, and now it's a pretty terrific combo with Capitalism.
Mine always felt like it belonged more in Prosperity than base game.

scout

Please, don't go there...
A joke was made about not sleeving your cards, so I think we're waay past that point :p
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 01:49:48 pm by ackmondual »
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Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play
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