Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3  All

Author Topic: Renaissance Initial Impressions  (Read 2352 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SuperHans

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 139
  • Respect: +214
    • View Profile
Renaissance Initial Impressions
« on: November 05, 2018, 01:27:56 pm »
0

What are your thoughts about the new cards?
Logged

MattTV

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2018, 01:40:14 pm »
+1

Cards that stand out:

Border Guard- I think this is going to be a really powerful card b/c already it's a nerved laboratory for 2$ and you could potentially upgrade it with the artifacts to act like an alchemist without the potions to keep it going every turn.

Cargo ship- I think probably the strongest 3$ duration card I've seen. I think this is gonna be a really good opener. The fact that your more likely to get 5$ card and pass it on in addition to your hand is killer even in the mid/late-game. Granted it doesn't really help to have more than one out unless you have lots of money and buys that turn, but yeah I really like this one.

Hideout- I could see this being the next wandering minstrel, I would probably even consider trashing the estates knowing the I could easily trash the curses with these later on after flooding my deck with terminal draws. But it's interesting that it seems like one of those cards you don't want open up with until right after your openings. definitely prefer this card over junk dealer.

Research- This is a really cool variant for tactician/apprentice. I think this duration has a lot of potential, but it may depend on number of gain/buys your capable of per game to feed into this cards. cards for silver flooding like trader, masterpiece, etc; would combo really nicely in a colonies game.

Sceptor-At first I was really disappointed with Sceptor cause it seemed like a weaker copy of Royal Crown; that's until I realized that this combos with actions a lot better in that even if you've used all your actions in your deck you can still throom room played actions. So I can see this working well with terminal draws and yeah this one peaked my interest the more I thought about it.
Logged

samath

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 307
  • Shuffle iT Username: SamE
  • Respect: +579
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2018, 01:47:11 pm »
+2

Logged

Holunder9

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 708
  • Respect: +293
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2018, 01:50:04 pm »
0

Border Guard- I think this is going to be a really powerful card b/c already it's a nerved laboratory for 2$ and you could potentially upgrade it with the artifacts to act like an alchemist without the potions to keep it going every turn.
You misread the card. Border Guard never draws more than 1 card.
Logged

MattTV

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2018, 02:56:28 pm »
0

Border Guard- I think this is going to be a really powerful card b/c already it's a nerved laboratory for 2$ and you could potentially upgrade it with the artifacts to act like an alchemist without the potions to keep it going every turn.
You misread the card. Border Guard never draws more than 1 card.
Oh no I get that. But what I'm saying is for a 2$ card as opposed to getting lab for 5$ it's pretty good. Especially, when you can upgrade it with the artifacts and spam them every turn potentially. But yeah I compared it to lab cause they can both cycle through 2 cards and yeah lab gets the 2 cards but I would rather have 3 border guards than 1 lab to cycle through the deck.
Logged

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 637
  • Respect: +967
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2018, 03:09:07 pm »
+2

My initial impression of Cargo Ship was that it was weak.  It seems comparable to Tracker, but a bit better in the opening because the extra money makes it easier to hit $5.

Hideout looks game-warping.  A cantrip trasher for $4 is already amazing.  And the fact that it's a village means engines go up really quick.  The curse-gaining looks like an important balancing effect, because at first you can only trash down by trashing copper, and in the late game you can buy Estates to feed your Hideouts.

Inventor looks crazy in the same way that Bridge does.  But after thinking about it, it doesn't have quite the same megaturn potential.  5 bridges and $7 in treasure gives you 4 provinces; 5 Inventors and $7 in treasure gives you only 2 provinces and a bunch of components.  It might be better for building, worse for scoring.

Although there's a lot of focus on the weird interactions and combos with Capitalism, I think it's a solid project even without them.  Just consider Capitalism + Monument, it's probably good.  Payload cards were underappreciated Lost Arts targets, because they were overshadowed by Lost Arts on terminal draw.

Cathedral resembles some of my speculation from weeks ago, but I'm surprised that there's no protection against discard attacks.  Right now it's tough to judge when the appropriate time to buy this is, but it's punishing enough that I'm sure it will become clear in time.

In general, I'm very pleased with the use of the villagers effect.  They're a finite resource, contingent on gaining or trashing a card, or on playing a terminal action.  If Coffers are a tradeoff between flexibility and raw strength, then Villagers are a tradeoff between reliability and longevity.
Logged

Holunder9

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 708
  • Respect: +293
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2018, 03:27:33 pm »
+1

Border Guard- I think this is going to be a really powerful card b/c already it's a nerved laboratory for 2$ and you could potentially upgrade it with the artifacts to act like an alchemist without the potions to keep it going every turn.
You misread the card. Border Guard never draws more than 1 card.
Oh no I get that. But what I'm saying is for a 2$ card as opposed to getting lab for 5$ it's pretty good. Especially, when you can upgrade it with the artifacts and spam them every turn potentially. But yeah I compared it to lab cause they can both cycle through 2 cards and yeah lab gets the 2 cards but I would rather have 3 border guards than 1 lab to cycle through the deck.
In a game with junkers and without trashers your notion has merit (but even then handsifters like Dungeon or Warehouse are probably preferable to Border Guard) whereas in a decently thinned deck you want to increase your draw power.

If you compare it with other $2s it is pretty decent though. Conditional Labs like Patrician or Vagrant often miss whereas Border Guard does something mildly useful on each play.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7297
  • Respect: +8104
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2018, 03:38:13 pm »
0

I understand the nerfed lab comparison. It's more like a nerfed Fugitive, but Fugitive is already a nerfed lab; so it's like a double-nerfed lab.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7011
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9697
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2018, 03:54:08 pm »
+1

Border Guard- I think this is going to be a really powerful card b/c already it's a nerved laboratory for 2$ and you could potentially upgrade it with the artifacts to act like an alchemist without the potions to keep it going every turn.
You misread the card. Border Guard never draws more than 1 card.
Oh no I get that. But what I'm saying is for a 2$ card as opposed to getting lab for 5$ it's pretty good. Especially, when you can upgrade it with the artifacts and spam them every turn potentially. But yeah I compared it to lab cause they can both cycle through 2 cards and yeah lab gets the 2 cards but I would rather have 3 border guards than 1 lab to cycle through the deck.

Remember that Horn only lets you topdeck one Border Guard each turn, though. Not all of them.
Logged

Holunder9

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 708
  • Respect: +293
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 03:57:15 pm »
0

I understand the nerfed lab comparison. It's more like a nerfed Fugitive, but Fugitive is already a nerfed lab; so it's like a double-nerfed lab.
Apples, oranges and cherries.
Lab is +1 Card.
Fugitive is +1 Card and discard a card.
Border Guard is a Spy variant, i.e. it is a cantrip that sifts through one or two cards from the top of the deck (and not your hand) before it draws.

By the way, that "double-nerfed Lab" would be Dungeon (on the turn you play it).
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7297
  • Respect: +8104
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2018, 04:15:06 pm »
0

I understand the nerfed lab comparison. It's more like a nerfed Fugitive, but Fugitive is already a nerfed lab; so it's like a double-nerfed lab.
Apples, oranges and cherries.
Lab is +1 Card.
Fugitive is +1 Card and discard a card.
Border Guard is a Spy variant, i.e. it is a cantrip that sifts through one or two cards from the top of the deck (and not your hand) before it draws.

By the way, that "double-nerfed Lab" would be Dungeon (on the turn you play it).

I've always thought of "+1 card, discard a card" as a nerfed "+1 card". And Border Guard could be re-worded "+2 cards, +1 action. Discard one of the 2 newly drawn cards" (tracking/accountability issues aside).

Yes, Border Guard probably plays closer to Spy, but I don't think that makes the comparison invalid.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Holunder9

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 708
  • Respect: +293
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2018, 04:25:10 pm »
0

I just don't see the supposed commonality of non-terminal draw and sifters.
Even among sifters hand- and decksifting do something significantly different from each other. It is nice when you can cycle faster with Ironmonger but it is in no way a substitute for the job that something like Dungeon or Warehouse do.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7297
  • Respect: +8104
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2018, 05:35:16 pm »
0

Well one big difference is that Oasis, Warehouse, and Dungeon all reduce your handsize, while Fugitive and Border Guard do not. This means that Fugitive, Forum, and Border Guard can allow you to draw your deck; although you can't keep your whole deck in your hand at once.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

MattTV

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2018, 05:39:50 pm »
0

Border Guard- I think this is going to be a really powerful card b/c already it's a nerved laboratory for 2$ and you could potentially upgrade it with the artifacts to act like an alchemist without the potions to keep it going every turn.
You misread the card. Border Guard never draws more than 1 card.
Oh no I get that. But what I'm saying is for a 2$ card as opposed to getting lab for 5$ it's pretty good. Especially, when you can upgrade it with the artifacts and spam them every turn potentially. But yeah I compared it to lab cause they can both cycle through 2 cards and yeah lab gets the 2 cards but I would rather have 3 border guards than 1 lab to cycle through the deck.

Remember that Horn only lets you top deck one Border Guard each turn, though. Not all of them.
Arrrgh I didn't catch that you can only top deck one....okay so maybe it is a tad bit weaker than I initially thought, but I still think it's pretty powerful. I mean think about it, if you buy 2 or 3 border guards your opponent will either stall time to buy border guards to keep the artifacts away from you or let you inevitably get the 2 artifacts (assuming you can flood your deck with actions) to sift through 6 to 9 cards rather than 4 to 6 cards with 2 or 3 labs. So in a way you can filter out your deck for the best cards rather than wasting turns trashing half your deck...as I did with this post  ;D.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7083
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9327
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 06:00:59 pm »
0

Inventor looks crazy in the same way that Bridge does.  But after thinking about it, it doesn't have quite the same megaturn potential.  5 bridges and $7 in treasure gives you 4 provinces; 5 Inventors and $7 in treasure gives you only 2 provinces and a bunch of components.  It might be better for building, worse for scoring.

Going further, 7 Bridges and $1 treasure gets you 8 Provinces, 7 Inventors and $1 gets you only 4 Provinces.  Not providing the coin/buy of Bridge is a huge loss.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Simon Jester

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 109
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeysemlan
  • Respect: +111
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2018, 06:02:58 pm »
+1

The cards I'm most intrigued by are Research and Inventor. I love Apprentice and Research is such an exciting variant. In my mind it seems as if it could be better than Apprentice if you rather want constistency than main draw. Inventor will just might be one of the most powerful 4:s here, used properly. Time will tell, but it looks fun.

Overall my first day with Renaissance have shown me one thing: I'm bad at Dominion, I'm very bad at Dominion. But I love the game nevertheless. 

Simon Jester

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 109
  • Shuffle iT Username: hockeysemlan
  • Respect: +111
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 06:05:02 pm »
0

Inventor looks crazy in the same way that Bridge does.  But after thinking about it, it doesn't have quite the same megaturn potential.  5 bridges and $7 in treasure gives you 4 provinces; 5 Inventors and $7 in treasure gives you only 2 provinces and a bunch of components.  It might be better for building, worse for scoring.

Going further, 7 Bridges and $1 treasure gets you 8 Provinces, 7 Inventors and $1 gets you only 4 Provinces.  Not providing the coin/buy of Bridge is a huge loss.

It's not that Inventor is a bridge variant, but rather a workshop variant with an Highway built in. Rushes are going to be much easier I could imagine, more than megaturns.

Holunder9

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 708
  • Respect: +293
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2018, 06:05:46 pm »
0

Arrrgh I didn't catch that you can only top deck one....okay so maybe it is a tad bit weaker than I initially thought, but I still think it's pretty powerful.
Spy was never powerful. If you allow it to spy before it draws, self-Scheme and increase the sifting depth by 1 it doesn't become a powerhouse either but probably becomes comparable in strength with $3 sifters like Warehouse and Dungeon (although they are still better to increase the consistency of your engine and in junking-intense games).

Best way to read it is as one of those $2 cantrips with a little extra.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10836
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11411
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2018, 07:00:05 pm »
+1

Inventor looks crazy in the same way that Bridge does.  But after thinking about it, it doesn't have quite the same megaturn potential.  5 bridges and $7 in treasure gives you 4 provinces; 5 Inventors and $7 in treasure gives you only 2 provinces and a bunch of components.  It might be better for building, worse for scoring.

Going further, 7 Bridges and $1 treasure gets you 8 Provinces, 7 Inventors and $1 gets you only 4 Provinces.  Not providing the coin/buy of Bridge is a huge loss.

It's not that Inventor is a bridge variant, but rather a workshop variant with an Highway built in. Rushes are going to be much easier I could imagine, more than megaturns.

Inventor is still pretty crazy for megaturns. You're probably behind in Provinces by the time you get any megaturn going anyway, and Inventor gains Duchies.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2616
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3288
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2018, 10:42:53 pm »
+5

Cathedral, a Short Story By Robz888



Me: Why, thank you, Cathedral! Such a good trasher.

Cathedral: ...

Me: Wow, you are fast. I hardly have any junk left!

Cathedral: ...

Me: Slow down, Cathedral! Have you ever heard of too much of a good thing?

Cathedral: ...

Me: This has gone too far.

Cathedral: ...

Me: Not my Silvers, are you mad?!

Cathedral: ...

Me: This will not do at all.

Cathedral: ...

Me: I just trashed a $4 Action, is your lust sated now, Cathedral?

Cathedral: ...

Me: I suppose you want my Treasuries as well. Fine.

Cathedral: ...

Me: Excuse me, this hand was Milita'd, it's not subject to your capricious whims. [Checks notes] You MONSTER!

Cathedral: ...

Me: Rats are a thing, you know. As is Hireling. I'll beat you, just wait and NOOOOO NOT MY SCHEMED ACTIONS

Cathedral: ...  8)

THE END
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7297
  • Respect: +8104
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2018, 10:45:37 pm »
+6

Cathedral + Fortress could be a thing.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 637
  • Respect: +967
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2018, 12:28:40 am »
0

Scepter looks like one of the weakest throne room variants (except Ghost), but it has a very nice interaction with draw-to-X.  Scepter + Scholar could be an engine all on its own.  Scepter + Jack might be good.  Scepter + Tactician... well that's funny, you can play the same tactician every turn, but the Scepters stay in play until you stop.
Logged

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1159
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +890
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2018, 12:36:50 am »
0

Cathedral, a Short Story By Robz888
...
Hideout can be a similar story. You can always stop playing your junk dealers, but if Hideout is the only village, that forced trashing turns into a serious drawback after awhile.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10836
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11411
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2018, 12:42:46 am »
+3

Scepter looks like one of the weakest throne room variants (except Ghost), but it has a very nice interaction with draw-to-X.  Scepter + Scholar could be an engine all on its own.  Scepter + Jack might be good.  Scepter + Tactician... well that's funny, you can play the same tactician every turn, but the Scepters stay in play until you stop.

I think Scepter is one of the strongest Throne Room variants. You can use multiple Scepters on the same target, you can use it on a target that you played way earlier on your turn, it lets you play Actions after you've played Treasures for some neat tricks sometimes, you can't draw it dead, and if you draw it without a target, it's still +$2. It introduces some restrictions that other Thrones don't have, but it also has some unique strengths, and it also has the strength that used to be unique to Royal Carriage.

You can even play strategies that are basically engine/big money hybrids with Scepter because of how resilient it is against unlucky draws. Scepter + Scholar is an obvious example that works super well.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 637
  • Respect: +967
    • View Profile
Re: Renaissance Initial Impressions
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2018, 01:47:43 am »
0

Scepter looks like one of the weakest throne room variants (except Ghost), but it has a very nice interaction with draw-to-X.  Scepter + Scholar could be an engine all on its own.  Scepter + Jack might be good.  Scepter + Tactician... well that's funny, you can play the same tactician every turn, but the Scepters stay in play until you stop.

I think Scepter is one of the strongest Throne Room variants. You can use multiple Scepters on the same target, you can use it on a target that you played way earlier on your turn, it lets you play Actions after you've played Treasures for some neat tricks sometimes, you can't draw it dead, and if you draw it without a target, it's still +$2. It introduces some restrictions that other Thrones don't have, but it also has some unique strengths, and it also has the strength that used to be unique to Royal Carriage.

You can even play strategies that are basically engine/big money hybrids with Scepter because of how resilient it is against unlucky draws. Scepter + Scholar is an obvious example that works super well.
I see your point.  Scepter + Scholar looks very strong, but even Scepter + Smithy is quite good.  Throne Room + Smithy needs three cards in your starting hand to kick off, but Scepter + Smithy only needs one.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All
 

Page created in 0.148 seconds with 20 queries.