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[pst]

Of the new stuff it seems clear that Capitalism has the most potential for unexpected combos, strange games, and just affecting games the most.
What have you found?

Some cards will be much better, like for example Conspirator and Goons. It will be fun to add an Embargo token to a pile just after you bought a card from that pile yourself.

Poor House will shine!

[faust]

Poor House will shine!

How ironic.

[faust]

Some cards will be much better, like for example Conspirator and Goons. It will be fun to add an Embargo token to a pile just after you bought a card from that pile yourself.

Conspirator will not be much better, as you generally prefer to be able to play the actions that you draw, and that will not always be possible if Conspirator is played as Treasure. You cannot add Embargo tokens after you bought a card since you play all Treasure before buying cards.

[Cuzz]

Giant gets a buff

[Cuzz]

How does Capitalism work with the $ token from Adventures?

[boris]

Storyteller playing actions with "+ Coin" (obviously) and "+ 1 Action" enables village-like effects.

[faust]

How does Capitalism work with the $ token from Adventures?

Rulebook says the +$ has to be in the card text, so you cannot turn any action into a Treasure using the token.

[pst]

Some cards will be much better, like for example Conspirator and Goons. It will be fun to add an Embargo token to a pile just after you bought a card from that pile yourself.

Conspirator will not be much better, as you generally prefer to be able to play the actions that you draw, and that will not always be possible if Conspirator is played as Treasure.

But at least it will be much easier to get Conspirator chains going that you get a lot of $$ from.

You cannot add Embargo tokens after you bought a card since you play all Treasure before buying cards.

Oops, my bad!

[Cuzz]

Storyteller playing actions with "+ Coin" (obviously) and "+ 1 Action" enables village-like effects.

Oh yeah Storyteller becomes ridiculous in two ways. Mostly you think about the effect of Capitalism during the Buy phase, where Storyteller can now be used for draw even if drawn dead. But now it also gets a huge buff as an engine component during the action phase since it can play all of your new action/treasures for draw and other effects.

[Cuzz]

Black Market will enable some serious craziness as well.

[boris]

I don't whether this qualifies as unexpected, but Bank can become pretty strong, with significantly less effort.

[Jimmmmm]

And Diadem in a similar way.

[Simon Jester]

I don't whether this qualifies as unexpected, but Bank can be become pretty strong, with significantly less effort.

omg... imagine a super-engine and then Bank at the end. And it stack...

I think a certain Chase will be pleased with this card

[Lotoreo]

Minion will be so strong. Already on its own, when you can play all treasures and then get new cards. But with cards like bridge.. Unbeatable

In some of the decks with minion you can actually hit end actions immediately and go through your whole deck during your buy phase.

[J Reggie]

I'm glad there's something mind-blowing that wasn't in the previews. Looks like with Conclave and a throne variant you can start an action chain in your buy phase, which may or may not have interesting effects.

Also, Iron cards and Courtier get a buff.

[Fly-Eagles-Fly]

Poor House will shine!

That seems to be an understatement. In fact, I myself (whenever I eventually get Renaissance) will avoid playing with Poor House and Capitalism, it just seems to be a borderline broken combo, given the fact that Poor House costs $1.

[J Reggie]

Poor House will shine!

That seems to be an understatement. In fact, I myself (whenever I eventually get Renaissance) will avoid playing with Poor House and Capitalism, it just seems to be a borderline broken combo, given the fact that Poor House costs $1.

Keep in mind that the value of Poor House goes down as you get more, because they're all treasures. Two can be good but the third is just a Silver, and the fourth is a Copper.

[Hks]

This is so, so cool! Really looking forward to trying these combos out. Thanks Donald!

[faust]

Do inherited Estates become Treasures? My first hunch is no.

[GendoIkari]

Do inherited Estates become Treasures? My first hunch is no.

I can really see this going either way. Your Estates are definitely "actions"; the only question is do they have anything "in their text". Inheritance gives your Estates the "abilities" of another card; I suppose it's reasonable that having an ability doesn't mean that you have that text. So you're probably correct on your hunch; but I can't be sure.

[Ingix]

They become Treasures (if the inherited card becomes one). The effect of Inheritance is supposed to give them text in my understanding. And IIRC Donald at least agreed on the outcome. One other argument is that the set aside card becomes a Treasure, so the Estates copy that independly of them being directly affected by Capitalism.

[faust]

They become Treasures (if the inherited card becomes one). The effect of Inheritance is supposed to give them text in my understanding. And IIRC Donald at least agreed on the outcome. One other argument is that the set aside card becomes a Treasure, so the Estates copy that independly of them being directly affected by Capitalism.

Well if this is so, then we can have a quintuple-type card by Inheriting Dame Sylvia in Capitalism!

EDIT: Werewolf Inherited will be a sixtuple type!

[Mic Qsenoch]

They become Treasures (if the inherited card becomes one). The effect of Inheritance is supposed to give them text in my understanding. And IIRC Donald at least agreed on the outcome. One other argument is that the set aside card becomes a Treasure, so the Estates copy that independly of them being directly affected by Capitalism.

Well if this is so, then we can have a quintuple-type card by Inheriting Dame Sylvia in Capitalism!

EDIT: Werewolf Inherited will be a sixtuple type!

Capitalism does nothing to Werewolf.

[Chappy7]

Leprechaun will be pretty easy to activate now.

[faust]

Leprechaun will be pretty easy to activate now.

Why? Capitalism does not turn Leprechaun into a Treasure...

[AJD]

They become Treasures (if the inherited card becomes one). The effect of Inheritance is supposed to give them text in my understanding. And IIRC Donald at least agreed on the outcome. One other argument is that the set aside card becomes a Treasure, so the Estates copy that independly of them being directly affected by Capitalism.

Well if this is so, then we can have a quintuple-type card by Inheriting Dame Sylvia in Capitalism!

EDIT: Werewolf Inherited will be a sixtuple type!

Capitalism does nothing to Werewolf.

[boris]

Another interaction, which I noticed: you can make Peddlers cheaper on boards without non-terminal actions (other than Peddler). 

[faust]

They become Treasures (if the inherited card becomes one). The effect of Inheritance is supposed to give them text in my understanding. And IIRC Donald at least agreed on the outcome. One other argument is that the set aside card becomes a Treasure, so the Estates copy that independly of them being directly affected by Capitalism.

Well if this is so, then we can have a quintuple-type card by Inheriting Dame Sylvia in Capitalism!

EDIT: Werewolf Inherited will be a sixtuple type!

Capitalism does nothing to Werewolf.

Ah. I got carried away. Since Inherited Werewolfs were already quintuple type, I guess that number does not increase with Capitalism.

[silvern]

you can now megaturn with stewards and bridges. that's pretty neat.

[Chappy7]

Leprechaun will be pretty easy to activate now.

Why? Capitalism does not turn Leprechaun into a Treasure...

You're right my bad.  I haven't played with it yet and misunderstood how it works

[Psyduck]

Mandarin lets you scheme all those Treasure Actions in play.

[pacovf]

Does it interact with Coppersmith?

[King Leon]

Does it interact with Coppersmith?

No, Coppersmith has no + in its text.

you can now megaturn with stewards and bridges. that's pretty neat.

Oh yes, Steward becones a Laboratory. Nice finding!

[Awaclus]

Oh yes, Steward becones a Laboratory. Nice finding!

Only if all the Action cards you want to play afterwards are also affected by Capitalism.

[TheOthin]

Oh yes, Steward becones a Laboratory. Nice finding!

Only if all the Action cards you want to play afterwards are also affected by Capitalism.

Fortunately, on a Steward board, there's guaranteed to be some good effects available in that phase.

[Awaclus]

Oh yes, Steward becones a Laboratory. Nice finding!

Only if all the Action cards you want to play afterwards are also affected by Capitalism.

Fortunately, on a Steward board, there's guaranteed to be some good effects available in that phase.

Well, Silver is always available.

[dghunter79]

It seems like a pretty big deal for one of my favorite cards, Pirate Ship.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Black Market will enable some serious craziness as well.

We can use coffers in the Black Market now!

[faust]

Capitalism drastically simplifies infinite loops. This is a loop for arbitrary amounts of VP:

Hand: Storyteller, Rogue, Monument, Watchtower

Trash: Mandarin

Play Storyteller to play Monument, Rogue gaining Mandarin (topdeck Storyteller, Monument, Rogue), reveal Watchtower to trash, draw Storyteller, Monument, Rogue back from Storyteller.

[markus]

Black Market will enable some serious craziness as well.

We can use coffers in the Black Market now!

Good catch - that doesn't work online yet.

[Aleimon Thimble]

Capitalism drastically simplifies infinite loops. This is a loop for arbitrary amounts of VP:

Hand: Storyteller, Rogue, Monument, Watchtower

Trash: Mandarin

Play Storyteller to play Monument, Rogue gaining Mandarin (topdeck Storyteller, Monument, Rogue), reveal Watchtower to trash, draw Storyteller, Monument, Rogue back from Storyteller.

Awesome find. You don't even need Monument per se; anything with +coins and +buy will also do the trick, since you can play it an arbitrary amount of times and just empty the supply afterwards. Goons is best, of course, but you win even without the VP chips.

Still, you'll likely not see a board with all of Mandarin, Storyteller, Watchtower, Rogue and Capitalism in a lifetime if you always play full random.

[J Reggie]

Capitalism drastically simplifies infinite loops. This is a loop for arbitrary amounts of VP:

Hand: Storyteller, Rogue, Monument, Watchtower

Trash: Mandarin

Play Storyteller to play Monument, Rogue gaining Mandarin (topdeck Storyteller, Monument, Rogue), reveal Watchtower to trash, draw Storyteller, Monument, Rogue back from Storyteller.

Awesome find. You don't even need Monument per se; anything with +coins and +buy will also do the trick, since you can play it an arbitrary amount of times and just empty the supply afterwards. Goons is best, of course, but you win even without the VP chips.

Still, you'll likely not see a board with all of Mandarin, Storyteller, Watchtower, Rogue and Capitalism in a lifetime if you always play full random.

You'd need some way to build up coins, which you can't do if Storyteller keeps eating them. But it should be simple enough to find an alternative to Storyteller.

[boris]

Capitalism drastically simplifies infinite loops. This is a loop for arbitrary amounts of VP:

Hand: Storyteller, Rogue, Monument, Watchtower

Trash: Mandarin

Play Storyteller to play Monument, Rogue gaining Mandarin (topdeck Storyteller, Monument, Rogue), reveal Watchtower to trash, draw Storyteller, Monument, Rogue back from Storyteller.

Awesome find. You don't even need Monument per se; anything with +coins and +buy will also do the trick, since you can play it an arbitrary amount of times and just empty the supply afterwards. Goons is best, of course, but you win even without the VP chips.

Still, you'll likely not see a board with all of Mandarin, Storyteller, Watchtower, Rogue and Capitalism in a lifetime if you always play full random.

You'd need some way to build up coins, which you can't do if Storyteller keeps eating them. But it should be simple enough to find an alternative to Storyteller.

I think Black Market plus Festival would work to provide unbounded buys and coins.
You play BM, and then Festival to get two actions. Now you can play Monument and Rogue as part of BM, gaining Mandarin to topdeck all four cards and trashing Mandarin as before. You have now two actions and use one for Watch Tower to draw your topdecked cards. The last remaining action can be used for BM again at which point the cycle repeats.   

[Squidd]

You're gonna run out of Watchtowers, though.

[boris]

You're gonna run out of Watchtowers, though.

Ah yes, that's true.

[greybirdofprey]

Miser, Farmer's Market, Tormentor especially benefit from removing the action requirement.
Vassal and Conclave let you play any actions in your buy phase.
And finally some love for Dame Sylvia.

But Minion becomes crazy. Instead of using Minions or other actions for coin you can just play all your non-Minion treasures, play Minion, get new non-Minion treasures and maybe another Minion, et cetera.

[Uiteindelijk]

I would think this would make Flag Bearer a stronger option, if there's no way to trash it instead.

[faust]

You'd need some way to build up coins, which you can't do if Storyteller keeps eating them. But it should be simple enough to find an alternative to Storyteller.

Very minimalistic solution: +card on Rogue, hand: Rogue, Watchtower. top of deck: Rogue. trash: Mandarin.

Now you can just keep playing Rogue for Mandarin and trash it. Any Rogue will draw the last topdecked Rogue.

[Uiteindelijk]

Herbalist also gains new utility, with more options for what can be put back on your deck, in addition to also being a Treasure itself.

[Psyduck]

Just played a game with Black Market and Capitalism. Got Tactician, Storyteller, Scepter, Conclave from the BM. It was pure madness.

Salvager and Mercenary also become Treasures by Capitalism, both of them work very fine.

[jonvs]

Keep in mind that the value of Poor House goes down as you get more, because they're all treasures. Two can be good but the third is just a Silver, and the fourth is a Copper.

Yeah, but the difference is you could play your Poor Houses after all your other Treasures. With a $5/$2 opening and good shuffling luck, you could literally buy a Province on your third turn.

[pst]

Keep in mind that the value of Poor House goes down as you get more, because they're all treasures. Two can be good but the third is just a Silver, and the fourth is a Copper.

Yeah, but the difference is you could play your Poor Houses after all your other Treasures. With a $5/$2 opening and good shuffling luck, you could literally buy a Province on your third turn.

The difference between what you are saying and what? Buying a Province on your third turn is no big deal. You can do that for example with Death Cart (alone, no combo needed) and some shuffle luck if you want to.

[Lotoreo]

I guess he means the difference between having to play your poor house while you still have all treasures on hand, and having the opportunity to play those treasures first

[Aleimon Thimble]

Keep in mind that the value of Poor House goes down as you get more, because they're all treasures. Two can be good but the third is just a Silver, and the fourth is a Copper.

Yeah, but the difference is you could play your Poor Houses after all your other Treasures. With a $5/$2 opening and good shuffling luck, you could literally buy a Province on your third turn.

The difference between what you are saying and what? Buying a Province on your third turn is no big deal. You can do that for example with Death Cart (alone, no combo needed) and some shuffle luck if you want to.

Also Coppersmith.

[Cuzz]

Mine becomes a discount Expand for your new treasures.

Mint becomes a Disciple variant (buy it before you buy Capitalism).

[Uiteindelijk]

I suppose Aqueduct would take the tokens from the Farmers' Market pile, and Keep has a lot more potential for points.

Alms becomes harder to use.

Magpie is even better when it can reveal these Action - Treasure cards.

[faust]

Keep has a lot more potential for points.

Does it though? The actions are only Treasures during your turns, not at the end of the game.

[Uiteindelijk]

Keep has a lot more potential for points.

Does it though? The actions are only Treasures during your turns, not at the end of the game.

Ah yes, you are correct. Too bad though.

[Simon Jester]

Keep has a lot more potential for points.

Does it though? The actions are only Treasures during your turns, not at the end of the game.

Ah yes, you are correct. Too bad though.

But, will the vp-counter show it as if they indeed would give points? That may cause some frustrating losses out of nowhere I could imagine.

[GendoIkari]

Keep has a lot more potential for points.

Does it though? The actions are only Treasures during your turns, not at the end of the game.

Ah yes, you are correct. Too bad though.

But, will the vp-counter show it as if they indeed would give points? That may cause some frustrating losses out of nowhere I could imagine.

I would hope it doesn't... does the VP counter include points from other Landmarks like Wall and such?

[faust]

Keep has a lot more potential for points.

Does it though? The actions are only Treasures during your turns, not at the end of the game.

Ah yes, you are correct. Too bad though.

But, will the vp-counter show it as if they indeed would give points? That may cause some frustrating losses out of nowhere I could imagine.

Well the VP counter doesn't change Orchard points every time Band of Misfits becomes another card, so I suppose not.

[trivialknot]

Keep has a lot more potential for points.

Does it though? The actions are only Treasures during your turns, not at the end of the game.

Ah yes, you are correct. Too bad though.

But, will the vp-counter show it as if they indeed would give points? That may cause some frustrating losses out of nowhere I could imagine.

No.

http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=3318.0

[crlundy]

Some other interactions pointed out on Discord:

• Taxman: force your opponents to discard a +$ Action card
• Crypt: Save +$ Action cards for future turns
• Mandarin: Scheme all your +$ Action cards in play
• Forager: counts +$ Action cards in the trash
• Hero / Tragic Hero: gain any +$ Action card
• Bridge: becomes non-terminal like Highway
• +$ Attacks become non-terminal: Goons (already mentioned), but also Mountebank, Giant, Swindler, Jester, etc

[GendoIkari]

Ooh, Capitalism doesn't only work on your own cards; so Tribute gets a lot better.

Ironmonger and Ironworks, too.

[crj]

And Bandit.

And, now I think about it, I'm suddenly glad I still have Thief lying around. (-8

[GendoIkari]

And Bandit.

And, now I think about it, I'm suddenly glad I still have Thief lying around. (-8

Woah... Thief + Capitalism could actually be really strong; or at least enough to scare your opponent away from trashing any initial Coppers.

[Beyond Awesome]

You can use herbalist to scheme stuff, including itself.

[Awaclus]

including itself

I've always wanted to have a Copper that topdecks itself.

[LaLight]

including itself

I've always wanted to have a Copper that topdecks itself.

More of a Pouch

[chipperMDW]

Adventurer might not be totally worthless with Capitalism. It'd give Venture/Capitalism a run for its money.

[GendoIkari]

Adventurer might not be totally worthless with Capitalism. It'd give Venture/Capitalism a run for its money.

Um, Adventurer + Capitalism almost reads +2 cards. I mean, it skips over Victory cards which is nice... but that sounds terrible.

[chipperMDW]

Adventurer might not be totally worthless with Capitalism. It'd give Venture/Capitalism a run for its money.

Um, Adventurer + Capitalism almost reads +2 cards. I mean, it skips over Victory cards which is nice... but that sounds terrible.

Hence the "might" (i.e. depends on board) and the "not totally worthless" (as opposed to, like, "decent").

[crlundy]

Adventurer might not be totally worthless with Capitalism. It'd give Venture/Capitalism a run for its money.

Um, Adventurer + Capitalism almost reads +2 cards. I mean, it skips over Victory cards which is nice... but that sounds terrible.

It also skips over most of your other draw cards.

[Hks]

It skips over the other useless Adventurers you bought! That's makes it a better card!

[Reykjavik]

Peasant -> Teacher becomes much stronger. Getting ridiculous quantities of coin from soldier is much easier with treasure soldiers, getting treasure peasants for +buys lets you spend that money. All you need for support is a decent draw card (preferably an attack), and some way to get your teacher relatively quickly (sifting or trashing works). Making your soldier a treasure with an early capitalism also lets you use that draw card without fear of drawing it dead, though that doesn't help the fugitive or disciple.

[ipofanes]

As all those capitalistic cards are still action cards. Being drawn by Scrying Pool, effectively all those terminal Silvers like Fortune Teller or Chancellor become better Silvers and there's no worrying about your payload in Scrying Pool games any more.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Just played a fun game with Capitalism, Scrying Pool, Courtier, and Cargo Ship (and no villages). Not only can you play Courtier in your buy phase, but Capitalism adds another type to a lot of action cards to get more out of Courtier plays. Then again, I ended up choosing Actions, Coin, and Buy even when I played Courier in my buy phase because I didn't want more golds in my scrying pool deck...