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Author Topic: Renaissance rulebook is up  (Read 2254 times)

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LastFootnote

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2018, 10:35:42 am »
+1

Some of the Teaser cards: Patron has "reveal" in quotations, Scepter, Capitalism, and Inovation let you play Actions in your Buy phase, Fleet gives players extra turns, and you can't turn off Cathedral.
I'm kind of dissapointed that Border Guard uses both Lantern and Horn, meaning that there are only four kingdom cards that use Artifacts. I hope he uses them again in another expansion.

Don't count on it. He's already gone on record saying that he'd remove them from Renaissance if he had to do it all over.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2018, 10:45:17 am »
+1

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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2018, 10:49:17 am »
+3

Patron gets added to the list of cards that clearly only exist to stick it to people like me who have responded to fan cards by saying "it's not a good idea to have a reaction that reacts to being revealed".
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SuperHans

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2018, 10:55:17 am »
0

Some of the Teaser cards: Patron has "reveal" in quotations, Scepter, Capitalism, and Inovation let you play Actions in your Buy phase, Fleet gives players extra turns, and you can't turn off Cathedral.
I'm kind of dissapointed that Border Guard uses both Lantern and Horn, meaning that there are only four kingdom cards that use Artifacts. I hope he uses them again in another expansion.

Don't count on it. He's already gone on record saying that he'd remove them from Renaissance if he had to do it all over.
I guess the following kingdom will have to suffice:

Border Guard
Flag Bearer
Swashbuckler
Treasurer
Exorcist
Fool
Vampire
Tournament
Young Witch
Peasant
Page (Bane)
Aqueduct
Tax
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2018, 11:01:18 am »
0

Surprised that Capitalism can cost only ; when compared to Lost Arts at . Lost Arts can work on any action, but only on 1 action. Capitalism works on a limited set of actions, but works on all of them at once. Plus has the additional advantage of not being able to be drawn dead (not that that's usually an issue in Lost Arts games).

Sure Capitalism doesn't let you turn Smithies into double-labs. But it does let you play multiple Bridges, Goons, or Mountebanks.
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faust

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2018, 11:11:03 am »
0

Surprised that Capitalism can cost only ; when compared to Lost Arts at . Lost Arts can work on any action, but only on 1 action. Capitalism works on a limited set of actions, but works on all of them at once. Plus has the additional advantage of not being able to be drawn dead (not that that's usually an issue in Lost Arts games).

Sure Capitalism doesn't let you turn Smithies into double-labs. But it does let you play multiple Bridges, Goons, or Mountebanks.
Lost Arts is strongest on Smithy variants, so I can see why it might cost more. I the Lost Arts token is put on drawers maybe 60% of the time, and then 25% on other terminals and 15% on cantrips in order to play multiple different terminals. (would be interesting to get some actual statistics on this)
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Cuzz

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2018, 11:16:44 am »
+5

Some of the Teaser cards: Patron has "reveal" in quotations, Scepter, Capitalism, and Inovation let you play Actions in your Buy phase, Fleet gives players extra turns, and you can't turn off Cathedral.
I'm kind of dissapointed that Border Guard uses both Lantern and Horn, meaning that there are only four kingdom cards that use Artifacts. I hope he uses them again in another expansion.

Don't count on it. He's already gone on record saying that he'd remove them from Renaissance if he had to do it all over.

Where was this? It seems odd to already have such strong regrets about a set that is just hitting shelves and that essentially no one has played with yet.
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trivialknot

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2018, 11:23:25 am »
+1

It appears that a subtheme is "effects that interact with categories that we never really thought about before".  Patron reacting to being revealed. Capitalism reacting to actions with +$. Sewers and Priest reacting to trashing, including self-trashing.  Swashbuckler reacting to things that put stuff in the discard.  Seer reacting to $2-$4-costs.  And of course, there's the whole class of actions that are useful to play during the Buy phase.

Another subtheme is on-gain effects.  I mean, those are in every set, but there are especially a lot of them here.  I think it's because +Coffers and +Villagers are very interesting when they're on-gain.
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timchen

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2018, 11:28:21 am »
+2

patron+ hunting party/library is kind of good?
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trivialknot

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2018, 11:36:55 am »
+3

Trashing seems particularly strong in this set, with three trashers being so strong that you worry about running out of fuel (Recruiter, Hideout, Cathedral), and several other decent trashers besides (Priest, Treasurer, Sewers, Research, I wouldn't really count Ducat or Improve).
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King Leon

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2018, 11:42:07 am »
+1

Patron + Scout looks like a great combo.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2018, 12:06:21 pm »
0

patron+ hunting party/library is kind of good?
Library doesn't work.
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King Leon

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2018, 12:20:15 pm »
+1

A few questions about Capitalism:

Given, I own Capitalism and play a Merchant Ship in my action phase, then I buy a Mint, I still get the +$2 in the next turn, right?

Can play a Pawn as +1 Card +1 Buy and it still counts as Treasure card?

Assuming I inherited a Farmer's Market (which technically has +$1 in its text), I play a Mine and trash a Copper. I assume, that I cannot gain an Estate, because the Estate is not mine, similar to an inherited Crown. Is that correct?

How can we fix Capitalism's interaction with Hero, Goons and Great Market?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2018, 12:24:12 pm »
+3

A few questions about Capitalism:

Given, I own Capitalism and play a Merchant Ship in my action phase, then I buy a Mint, I still get the +$2 in the next turn, right?


Yes; this is the same as playing a Procession on a Duration card. Duration cards never need to still be in play on the next turn to do their thing.

Quote
Can play a Pawn as +1 Card +1 Buy and it still counts as Treasure card?

Yes; because it simply IS a Treasure card; it doesn't become one when you play it. It would have to be a Treasure card before the game "knows" what choice you will make. Same with Pirate Ship.

Quote
Assuming I inherited a Farmer's Market (which technically has +$1 in its text), I play a Mine and trash a Copper. I assum, that I cannot gain an Estate, because the Estate is not mine, similar to an inherited Crown. Is that correct?
Correct. This is the same as trying to gain an Estate with University. You can't do it, because Estates in the supply are not actions.

Quote
How can we fix Capitalism's interaction with Hero, Goons and Great Market?

What do you mean "fix"?
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King Leon

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2018, 12:39:18 pm »
+1

Thank you a lot.

What do you mean "fix"?

I mean, it is very abusable. Hero can gain Grand Markets and Goons for you. Grand Markets give you + Buys and you can play Goons without consuming any Actions. An amazingly oveerpowered combo.

Some cards like Harvest or Tormentor already get a huge boost, but the boost for Hero and Goons is just incredibly sick.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 12:40:22 pm by King Leon »
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ben_king

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2018, 12:44:08 pm »
+2

I mean, it is very abusable. Hero can gain Grand Markets and Goons for you. Grand Markets give you + Buys and you can play Goons without consuming any Actions. An amazingly oveerpowered combo.

Some cards like Harvest or Tormentor already get a huge boost, but the boost for Hero and Goons is just incredibly sick.

Eh, I'm not seeing the issue here.  You usually don't get to play a Hero until your 4th shuffle.  By that point, you should easily be able to afford a Goons or a Grand Market even without the Hero.
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dbclick

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2018, 12:53:21 pm »
+2

Just for seeking clarity, it looks like Patron doesn't require the word "reveal" with those 6 letters only, but rather it must use the reveal game mechanic. Is this true? Meaning cards that cause revealing to happen with other parts of speech like "reveals" (e.g. Scrying Pool) or "revealing" (e.g. Shepherd), etc. still work?
This would mean if I reveal for Villan because I can't discard due to Villan's condition (say with cost reduction so that Patron costs less than $2), I get +1 Coffers for each Patron in my hand, despite the wording being "(or reveals they can't)".

If it is just r-e-v-e-a-l that counts, then this is going to be a nightmare for translated versions.
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Holunder9

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2018, 01:06:38 pm »
0

Border Guard is pretty disappointing. I expected something interesting with the two remaining Artifacts and instead we got a weak sifter.
This will probably be revealed in the Secret History but I find it interesting that no straightforward Villagers Village landed in the set. My guess is that it was too strong at $4 and too weak at $5.
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AJD

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2018, 01:11:50 pm »
0

Just for seeking clarity, it looks like Patron doesn't require the word "reveal" with those 6 letters only, but rather it must use the reveal game mechanic. Is this true? Meaning cards that cause revealing to happen with other parts of speech like "reveals" (e.g. Scrying Pool) or "revealing" (e.g. Shepherd), etc. still work?
This would mean if I reveal for Villan because I can't discard due to Villan's condition (say with cost reduction so that Patron costs less than $2), I get +1 Coffers for each Patron in my hand, despite the wording being "(or reveals they can't)".

If it is just r-e-v-e-a-l that counts, then this is going to be a nightmare for translated versions.

I think we can take "word" as meaning 'lexical item' rather than 'word form'.

Good thing "revelation" doesn't appear on a card though, then we'd be in for a debate.
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ben_king

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2018, 01:13:51 pm »
+3

Border Guard is pretty disappointing. I expected something interesting with the two remaining Artifacts and instead we got a weak sifter.
This will probably be revealed in the Secret History but I find it interesting that no straightforward Villagers Village landed in the set. My guess is that it was too strong at $4 and too weak at $5.

Secret History will definitely have a lot to say about the Artifacts that made/didn't make it.  There were a number of interesting Artifacts that didn't make it for reasons other than not being interesting enough.  But I'll leave the rest of the history to Donald X.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 07:47:11 pm by ben_king »
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Awaclus

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2018, 02:49:26 pm »
+2

I mean, it is very abusable. Hero can gain Grand Markets and Goons for you. Grand Markets give you + Buys and you can play Goons without consuming any Actions. An amazingly oveerpowered combo.

Hero can already gain Platinums and Fortunes, which are more difficult to acquire than GM or Goons under normal circumstances, and Grand Market itself hardly benefits from Capitalism since it's non-terminal anyway.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 12:05:20 am by Awaclus »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2018, 03:24:24 pm »
+1

I mean, it is very abusable. Hero can gain Grand Markets and Goons for you. Grand Markets give you + Buys and you can play Goons without consuming any Actions. An amazingly oveerpowered combo.

Hero can already gain Platinums and Fortunes, which are more difficult to acquire than GM or Goons under normal circumstances, and Grand Market itself hardly benefits from Capital since it's non-terminal anyway.

With Grand Market especially; you would rather play it in the action phase the majority of the time anyway; because if you play in the buy phase, you won't be able to play any actions it draws (unless those actions are also now treasures).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2018, 04:47:28 pm »
+1

All cards/artifacts/projects have been added to auto-link. Wiki people, get them added!

Thanks, mysterious Wiki people! All Renaissance links seem to be working fine.
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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2018, 05:28:01 pm »
0

Old Witch looks younger than the regular witch.
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Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2018, 05:51:35 pm »
+2

I mean, it is very abusable. Hero can gain Grand Markets and Goons for you. Grand Markets give you + Buys and you can play Goons without consuming any Actions. An amazingly oveerpowered combo.

Some cards like Harvest or Tormentor already get a huge boost, but the boost for Hero and Goons is just incredibly sick.

Eh, I'm not seeing the issue here.  You usually don't get to play a Hero until your 4th shuffle.  By that point, you should easily be able to afford a Goons or a Grand Market even without the Hero.

What is wrong with overamazingly overpowered combos as long as everyone have access to them and they involve more than one card? There are many, myself included, that just love playing degenerate games as with KC or Wharf-engines for example. Not every game, for sure, but they are absolutely delightful when they show up. Won't mind if Capitalism turn out to be as ridiculous as we expect right now. It will never be Sauvanto anyway.

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