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Author Topic: New fan based alchemy cards.  (Read 6703 times)

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Asper

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2019, 11:39:27 am »
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But obviously he wants us to come up with our own alchemy cards because half the box is empty. Thatís why Iíve got so many ways to use potions, or to make it easier to gain higher costing potion cards or to give certain actions that act also as a potion. Hopefully if you played a random game with just alchemy you would get at least one of these new cards that make it easier to get potion Action cards.
While I doubt Donald X has strong feelings about fans trying to fill Alchemy's gaps one way or the other, he mentioned that Alchemy started out as a big set, and was split up due to the German publisher at the time requesting smaller sets (they wanted to sell them in tiny packages, thank goodness it didn't come that far).

What I don't think we know is whether the cards would all be centered around Potions. Taking any other big expansion as a reference point, the answer appears to be no. Even Seaside, which has an overarching "future turns" theme isn't all Durations. It also has tokens, mats, topdecking, and even some off-topic cards. So if you want to fill up the gaps in Alchemy, maybe it would be more rewarding to create new stuff that goes with Potions on a meta level, than just creating more of the same. Potion cards are tricky but powerful, maybe other tricky but powerful mechanics would go with them. And they also have cards depend on each other, maybe that's a thing to explore. Now that I write this, I realize that Dark Ages actually worked with both of these ideas. Or perhaps you like how Potion cards have you pay for cards in a new way, and want to invent something that goes with that (like Empires' debt did), or you like how the set is slightly weird, and you want to do more weird stuff, or you like the magic theme (gasp) and want more mechanics derived from magic themes, like Nocturne does.

My point is, filling the gaps to make Alchemy a better set doesn't necessarily mean you have to create more Potion cards. Having overly many Potion cards in a kingdom removes the tactical consideration of wether or not to get a Potion, and the game suffers as a result. There's a reason Empires isn't all debt cards and Adventures isn't all Reserves.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2019, 11:50:13 am »
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Well currently mortar and pestle doesnít have potion in its cost so thereís one. Oh no I donít want alchemy centered around magic. With the exception of the dragon and love potion. I want it to be more scientific. Besides in real life love potions were a scam, itís not like they really worked, and itís not like they really made the philosophers stone either.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 11:55:48 am by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2019, 12:10:22 pm »
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They wanted smaller expansions, then why did they bother combining guilds and cornucopia then? It goes against what they wanted. And they never bothered to make another mini expansion to combine it later with alchemy did they now. Since they obviously changed their minds on smaller expansions they should make alchemy bigger officially. Add more cards to it. Make it so it can be played by itself and then of course a make a few more cards that donít have potion in their cost. Making it a well rounded expansion on its own. After all they have made many changes to other expansions. Replacing cards in the base game and intrigue. Changing guilds take a coin to +1 Coffers. Adding bane to cornucopia. They need to make changes to alchemy too. And while their at it prosperity needs a few 2$ costing cards. Cause as is the 3$ costing cards arenít that great either.

Iím just saying itís unfair to alchemy fans. To make changes to all the other expansions but to leave alchemy all alone on itís own.
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Asper

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2019, 01:08:47 pm »
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They wanted smaller expansions, then why did they bother combining guilds and cornucopia then? It goes against what they wanted. And they never bothered to make another mini expansion to combine it later with alchemy did they now. Since they obviously changed their minds on smaller expansions they should make alchemy bigger officially. Add more cards to it. Make it so it can be played by itself and then of course a make a few more cards that donít have potion in their cost. Making it a well rounded expansion on its own. After all they have made many changes to other expansions. Replacing cards in the base game and intrigue. Changing guilds take a coin to +1 Coffers. Adding bane to cornucopia. They need to make changes to alchemy too. And while their at it prosperity needs a few 2$ costing cards. Cause as is the 3$ costing cards arenít that great either.

Iím just saying itís unfair to alchemy fans. To make changes to all the other expansions but to leave alchemy all alone on itís own.
The current German publisher isn't the German publisher from back then, so you can't hold them accountable for having other ideas than back then. Alchemy is a small set now, and there's no good reason for a publisher to make it big. Intrigue and the base game were always much more popular, but they had weak cards that were replaced to make them better, and also those replacement cards were enough to make up a small expansion consisting only of them. Replacing all the weak cards in Alchemy and adding new ones is practically the same effort as creating a new expansion from scratch, but more restricted in what one can do, with lots of people having to pay for cards they already have, and Alchemy still being overwhelmingly unpopular. It's worse than creating a new expansion in every respect. Besides, the Guilds changes are no new cards, they play exactly the same, and the same goes for Cornucopia's bane tracking card.

That doesn't mean you as a fan can't try to do it yourself, but from a publisher's perspective a second edition of Alchemy means putting immense ressources into something that didn't work the last time.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2019, 03:53:46 pm »
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Thatís why they can just do an update pack they did it with the first 2. They were like 10$. Besides for those of us who have guilds already if we want Coffers for guilds we would have to spend a lot more than 10$. That change did not come with an update pack for guilds did it. Guilds isnít the best expansion either yet they did make changes and did re print the box. It would cost the same amount if they created new alchemy cards and new alchemy box. It might be even cheaper because they still put cornucopia and guilds together. They would of had to reprint cornucopia too.

And with alchemy all they would have to do is create the new cards new insert and put them into an update pack they would not have to create a whole new box, thereís plenty of space for 7 or 8 cards.

They just donít want to because itís not popular. Which is why Iím creating my own to add. Because they have given up on it. They could of kept guilds the same. After empires came out they kept prosperity the same, I mean isnít it weird playing with bishop and farmerís market in the same game. Yet they changed it.

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Asper

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2019, 05:24:16 am »
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Thatís why they can just do an update pack they did it with the first 2. They were like 10$. Besides for those of us who have guilds already if we want Coffers for guilds we would have to spend a lot more than 10$. That change did not come with an update pack for guilds did it. Guilds isnít the best expansion either yet they did make changes and did re print the box. It would cost the same amount if they created new alchemy cards and new alchemy box. It might be even cheaper because they still put cornucopia and guilds together. They would of had to reprint cornucopia too.

And with alchemy all they would have to do is create the new cards new insert and put them into an update pack they would not have to create a whole new box, thereís plenty of space for 7 or 8 cards.

They just donít want to because itís not popular. Which is why Iím creating my own to add. Because they have given up on it. They could of kept guilds the same. After empires came out they kept prosperity the same, I mean isnít it weird playing with bishop and farmerís market in the same game. Yet they changed it.
I don't get what your problem is with Bishop and Farmers' Market. Those are two completely different cards that use different mechanics.

And I'll say it again, the first and second edition of Guilds are mechanically the same. You miss nothing if you don't buy the second edition. This is completely different than your suggested changes to Alchemy. Besides, Guilds IS a lot more popular than Alchemy.

If you were to create some cards with the main purpose to sell them alone, you should put that effort into a completely new expansion. First, it won't be stained with Alchemy's lack of popularity. Second, it will be received as something new and thus more interesting. Third, compared to a 10-card upgrade pack, you get more for your money, because small expansions contain less cards but require the same organisational effort to ship, store, sell, etc..
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2019, 04:30:09 pm »
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your not going to change my mind about these things. I think itís unfair to alchemy. I think alchemy is a great expansion and more people would like it if there more things you could do with it hence more cards. Of course if they want to make a new potion themed expansion Iím all for it, Iíll just combine the 2. In Much the same way that guilds and cornucopia is in the same box. And if they just made another mini expansion and combined it with alchemy that would be fine too. And I would feel the same way if cornucopia was by itself. In fact thereís so much room they could have put all 3 mini boxes in the same box.

We have different opinions about dominion. So letís leave it at that. Caramel, Carmel how do pronounce it.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 04:32:45 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Asper

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2019, 07:29:51 pm »
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Sure, do what is fun to you. It's not like I mind more Alchemy cards. I'm just giving you the reasons why it's unlikely to happen on the official side.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2019, 09:06:46 pm »
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Oh I know itís unlikely, thatís one reason why Iím making my own.
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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #84 on: January 01, 2020, 10:15:26 am »
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Oh I know itís unlikely, thatís one reason why Iím making my own.
After Donald's comment about a new expansion in spring 2020 that there will be no alchemy cards, it hink all fans of alchemy have to be active by them self.
I have made several cards with reference to alchemy's ideas.
We played them often and i can say that it is much fun. It is really a new kind of expansion because the game can be extremely tactically.
The main point is to use new victory cards:

It is very important that there is another alternative to win a game using potions. So the new additional rule is: the game ends after the county's supply is empty.
This changes all: it is attractive to buy potions. It is important, that the difference of costs of principality and county is .
The cards from Donald's expansion are not good enough for this. So if there is interest, i can add more well tested cards to this, so that it is a nice expansion. My impression is, that it changes to an interesting tactical game independent whether it is a short or a long game.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 05:20:53 am by herw »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #85 on: January 03, 2020, 03:15:08 am »
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Hmm that is an interesting idea. However county kinda opts out possession, cause then you would never buy possession, which isnít the best because I donít think there any current action cards you can buy that cost more than province. Of course most players hate that card. I mean I think prince costs 8. But it doesnít cost more. I do like the idea, although I donít understand what county has to do with potions.

I try to stick with something that seems like it would fit with alchemy, or chemistry, or herbs, or medicine or something like that. Example: herb forest instead of county. Also I would make it cost 7 and a potion. But make it 8 vp instead of 6 vp. Cause I feel it should give you more Victory points than a province, because it would be harder to get than a province. Even if it was at 5 and a potion. It would definitely slow the game down. However if it was worth more vps than a province, and you made it another optional way to end the game, just like colony is another optional way to end the game. It wouldnít have to slow the game too much and players could still try to end it with the herb forest instead. However I donít think it would be a good idea to add colony and platinum to the equation. Platinum would make it way too easy to obtain the county or even the herb garden and not only that but with colony in the supply it defeats the purpose of having county in the supply in the first place.

But yes that idea would make it more appealing to get potion cards, although if vineyard is in the game, I think most players would never pass up on that since itís a stronger version of gardens.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2020, 03:30:34 am »
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And on that other note that the cards are not good enough for those alternative victory cards, i donít know if you have looked at all my cards or not, but I did make several of action cards that potion to the cost. Like the mad scientist, it would definitely be helpful in obtaining those county cards. Of course only if there was a good trasher in the supply as well. But with that said since itís harder to buy high costing potion cards anyways maybe if weíre cheaper and powerful but with a negative vp on it. It would be a gamble, but it might be worth trying out. Because the current ones are pretty powerful which would mean it would have to cost more with potions like possession and if that was the case than you would only get to play it a few times at the most, which wouldnít be very useful, however if the negative vps were also attached I think you could get away with making them a little more powerful and only costing like 3 or 4 and a potion instead of 5 or 6 and a potion. Cause even if there was no trasher and even if it had like 2 negative vps on it, I would still buy one or two.
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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2020, 10:40:09 am »
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seems to be some interest - so i will translate some of my cards. It is important that there are action cards with in cost but this is not a must for all cards.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 04:49:31 am by herw »
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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2020, 03:09:46 am »
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I start with a published card and a new one.
First it is very important that a new card is a good alternative against simplest strategy BigMoney.
So here are very simple Antimony and Extraction.



Extraction is an attractive victory-card-trasher. You get -markers instead of dead cards. F.i. 1, 3 and 6 instead of Estate, Duchy and Province etc.. BTW you don't get no s when trashing a King's Castle, because it is nothing worth until you end the game; same for Gardens and Duke. Extraction should be simple without counting anything.

Extraction is an actioncard, so Antimony is like a gold if Extraction is played.
Antimony grows by itself too, if there are more than one in play. So it is important that it costs and not .

PS: always have in mind, that there are Principality and County in kingdom.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 01:57:16 am by herw »
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Awaclus

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2020, 04:01:11 am »
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I donít think there any current action cards you can buy that cost more than province.

There is Possession.
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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #90 on: January 12, 2020, 04:03:48 am »
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It is nice to get a potion often in hand, so it is logical to create this:

« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 05:43:37 am by herw »
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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #91 on: January 12, 2020, 04:14:57 am »
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Hmm that is an interesting idea. [...]Also I would make it cost 7 and a potion. But make it 8 vp instead of 6 vp. Cause I feel it should give you more Victory points than a province, because it would be harder to get than a province. [...]

Don't agree: it is very important that county and province give the same s. So it is only a strategic possibility to end a game or length the game if you have no chance to win the game with provinces only.
And it is immanent too, to get more s for principality, so it is attractive to buy a potion.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 05:44:46 am by herw »
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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #92 on: January 28, 2020, 12:44:56 pm »
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Alchemy has its own idea with potions. It is not necessary that all cards have potion in costs. But new cards should mesh with those. So if i would create an Alchemy II i would add these:

travellers:



Dark Path is a curse card. So if you have to gain a curse you decide to gain a normal curse or Dark Path. You can buy Dark Path like other kingdom cards.

PS: changed the name of Breath to Atman (see post 2020-02-02)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 02:11:01 am by herw »
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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2020, 01:08:27 am »
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If you want to play a really crazy kingdom, then have a look here (German DOMINION Forum).
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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2020, 01:57:19 am »
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changed the name of Breath to Atman, which is the sense of german ĄLebenshauchĒ

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herw

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #95 on: February 16, 2020, 02:19:27 am »
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Village Square

A simple and useful card. First i set costs to but this is too cheap because you can buy it in first two turns; seems to be too strong and if you have at start you are lucky.
So i set the costs to . Everyone has the same chance to buy it in middle game.



remark: if there is chapel or a normal village in your kingdom you should remove those.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 02:37:18 am by herw »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #96 on: March 03, 2020, 12:06:27 am »
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I like the idea of your traveler cards in alchemy, but not too fond of the theme. I prefer my dominion to be realistic. Although I do I like the dinosaurs in your jungle card. And I do love your village square. I may have to add that one. The idea that your traveler is a minus point card as a traveler that can eventually become a victory card is awesome.
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