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Author Topic: New fan based alchemy cards.  (Read 2258 times)

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Asper

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2019, 11:39:27 am »
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But obviously he wants us to come up with our own alchemy cards because half the box is empty. Thatís why Iíve got so many ways to use potions, or to make it easier to gain higher costing potion cards or to give certain actions that act also as a potion. Hopefully if you played a random game with just alchemy you would get at least one of these new cards that make it easier to get potion Action cards.
While I doubt Donald X has strong feelings about fans trying to fill Alchemy's gaps one way or the other, he mentioned that Alchemy started out as a big set, and was split up due to the German publisher at the time requesting smaller sets (they wanted to sell them in tiny packages, thank goodness it didn't come that far).

What I don't think we know is whether the cards would all be centered around Potions. Taking any other big expansion as a reference point, the answer appears to be no. Even Seaside, which has an overarching "future turns" theme isn't all Durations. It also has tokens, mats, topdecking, and even some off-topic cards. So if you want to fill up the gaps in Alchemy, maybe it would be more rewarding to create new stuff that goes with Potions on a meta level, than just creating more of the same. Potion cards are tricky but powerful, maybe other tricky but powerful mechanics would go with them. And they also have cards depend on each other, maybe that's a thing to explore. Now that I write this, I realize that Dark Ages actually worked with both of these ideas. Or perhaps you like how Potion cards have you pay for cards in a new way, and want to invent something that goes with that (like Empires' debt did), or you like how the set is slightly weird, and you want to do more weird stuff, or you like the magic theme (gasp) and want more mechanics derived from magic themes, like Nocturne does.

My point is, filling the gaps to make Alchemy a better set doesn't necessarily mean you have to create more Potion cards. Having overly many Potion cards in a kingdom removes the tactical consideration of wether or not to get a Potion, and the game suffers as a result. There's a reason Empires isn't all debt cards and Adventures isn't all Reserves.

ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2019, 11:50:13 am »
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Well currently mortar and pestle doesnít have potion in its cost so thereís one. Oh no I donít want alchemy centered around magic. With the exception of the dragon and love potion. I want it to be more scientific. Besides in real life love potions were a scam, itís not like they really worked, and itís not like they really made the philosophers stone either.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 11:55:48 am by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2019, 12:10:22 pm »
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They wanted smaller expansions, then why did they bother combining guilds and cornucopia then? It goes against what they wanted. And they never bothered to make another mini expansion to combine it later with alchemy did they now. Since they obviously changed their minds on smaller expansions they should make alchemy bigger officially. Add more cards to it. Make it so it can be played by itself and then of course a make a few more cards that donít have potion in their cost. Making it a well rounded expansion on its own. After all they have made many changes to other expansions. Replacing cards in the base game and intrigue. Changing guilds take a coin to +1 Coffers. Adding bane to cornucopia. They need to make changes to alchemy too. And while their at it prosperity needs a few 2$ costing cards. Cause as is the 3$ costing cards arenít that great either.

Iím just saying itís unfair to alchemy fans. To make changes to all the other expansions but to leave alchemy all alone on itís own.
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Asper

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2019, 01:08:47 pm »
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They wanted smaller expansions, then why did they bother combining guilds and cornucopia then? It goes against what they wanted. And they never bothered to make another mini expansion to combine it later with alchemy did they now. Since they obviously changed their minds on smaller expansions they should make alchemy bigger officially. Add more cards to it. Make it so it can be played by itself and then of course a make a few more cards that donít have potion in their cost. Making it a well rounded expansion on its own. After all they have made many changes to other expansions. Replacing cards in the base game and intrigue. Changing guilds take a coin to +1 Coffers. Adding bane to cornucopia. They need to make changes to alchemy too. And while their at it prosperity needs a few 2$ costing cards. Cause as is the 3$ costing cards arenít that great either.

Iím just saying itís unfair to alchemy fans. To make changes to all the other expansions but to leave alchemy all alone on itís own.
The current German publisher isn't the German publisher from back then, so you can't hold them accountable for having other ideas than back then. Alchemy is a small set now, and there's no good reason for a publisher to make it big. Intrigue and the base game were always much more popular, but they had weak cards that were replaced to make them better, and also those replacement cards were enough to make up a small expansion consisting only of them. Replacing all the weak cards in Alchemy and adding new ones is practically the same effort as creating a new expansion from scratch, but more restricted in what one can do, with lots of people having to pay for cards they already have, and Alchemy still being overwhelmingly unpopular. It's worse than creating a new expansion in every respect. Besides, the Guilds changes are no new cards, they play exactly the same, and the same goes for Cornucopia's bane tracking card.

That doesn't mean you as a fan can't try to do it yourself, but from a publisher's perspective a second edition of Alchemy means putting immense ressources into something that didn't work the last time.

ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2019, 03:53:46 pm »
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Thatís why they can just do an update pack they did it with the first 2. They were like 10$. Besides for those of us who have guilds already if we want Coffers for guilds we would have to spend a lot more than 10$. That change did not come with an update pack for guilds did it. Guilds isnít the best expansion either yet they did make changes and did re print the box. It would cost the same amount if they created new alchemy cards and new alchemy box. It might be even cheaper because they still put cornucopia and guilds together. They would of had to reprint cornucopia too.

And with alchemy all they would have to do is create the new cards new insert and put them into an update pack they would not have to create a whole new box, thereís plenty of space for 7 or 8 cards.

They just donít want to because itís not popular. Which is why Iím creating my own to add. Because they have given up on it. They could of kept guilds the same. After empires came out they kept prosperity the same, I mean isnít it weird playing with bishop and farmerís market in the same game. Yet they changed it.

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Asper

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2019, 05:24:16 am »
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Thatís why they can just do an update pack they did it with the first 2. They were like 10$. Besides for those of us who have guilds already if we want Coffers for guilds we would have to spend a lot more than 10$. That change did not come with an update pack for guilds did it. Guilds isnít the best expansion either yet they did make changes and did re print the box. It would cost the same amount if they created new alchemy cards and new alchemy box. It might be even cheaper because they still put cornucopia and guilds together. They would of had to reprint cornucopia too.

And with alchemy all they would have to do is create the new cards new insert and put them into an update pack they would not have to create a whole new box, thereís plenty of space for 7 or 8 cards.

They just donít want to because itís not popular. Which is why Iím creating my own to add. Because they have given up on it. They could of kept guilds the same. After empires came out they kept prosperity the same, I mean isnít it weird playing with bishop and farmerís market in the same game. Yet they changed it.
I don't get what your problem is with Bishop and Farmers' Market. Those are two completely different cards that use different mechanics.

And I'll say it again, the first and second edition of Guilds are mechanically the same. You miss nothing if you don't buy the second edition. This is completely different than your suggested changes to Alchemy. Besides, Guilds IS a lot more popular than Alchemy.

If you were to create some cards with the main purpose to sell them alone, you should put that effort into a completely new expansion. First, it won't be stained with Alchemy's lack of popularity. Second, it will be received as something new and thus more interesting. Third, compared to a 10-card upgrade pack, you get more for your money, because small expansions contain less cards but require the same organisational effort to ship, store, sell, etc..

ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2019, 04:30:09 pm »
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your not going to change my mind about these things. I think itís unfair to alchemy. I think alchemy is a great expansion and more people would like it if there more things you could do with it hence more cards. Of course if they want to make a new potion themed expansion Iím all for it, Iíll just combine the 2. In Much the same way that guilds and cornucopia is in the same box. And if they just made another mini expansion and combined it with alchemy that would be fine too. And I would feel the same way if cornucopia was by itself. In fact thereís so much room they could have put all 3 mini boxes in the same box.

We have different opinions about dominion. So letís leave it at that. Caramel, Carmel how do pronounce it.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 04:32:45 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Asper

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2019, 07:29:51 pm »
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Sure, do what is fun to you. It's not like I mind more Alchemy cards. I'm just giving you the reasons why it's unlikely to happen on the official side.

ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2019, 09:06:46 pm »
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Oh I know itís unlikely, thatís one reason why Iím making my own.
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