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Author Topic: New fan based alchemy cards.  (Read 612 times)

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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2018, 11:33:38 pm »
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Hmm, I'm somewhat intrigued by the idea of a Remodeler that takes an extra turn to remodel.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2018, 11:38:57 pm »
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For instance you could set aside an estate with potter, then on your next turn you would trash the estate and gain a mad scientist if it was in the game or a wine cellar if it was in the game. And if they werenít in the game you still gain a card costing up to 5$.
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boris

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2018, 11:18:54 am »
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I think this could be too strong with the current wording. If you for instance throne two village idiots, which probably would not be hard, this could really hurt opponents. Maybe consider "while this is in play" to rule out throne room stuff. Still, it is relatively simple to play multiple village idiots I believe.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 11:20:43 am by boris »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2018, 01:25:46 am »
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True but if you throne roomed witch for instance, witch would be a lot worse. Unless you think copper is worse than curses. Also you have the option each time take 2 debt or a copper. If it was throne roomed you could take both or if there were really good trashers like chapel you would just take 2 coppers. Also itís only when you buy something that you would gain a penalty. So just donít buy anything unless itís a potion or event or artifact, and you will be fine. Village idiot is a weaker version of swamp hag. Cause a copper is always better than a curse.
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boris

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2018, 03:52:19 am »
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Village idiot is a weaker version of swamp hag. Cause a copper is always better than a curse.

I thought a bit about it and I also think, that it is comparable to swamp hag, but I would not say that it is necessarily weaker. Village idiot is non-terminal and therefore simpler to play in multiples and you can get it sooner than swamp hag.

I would not say that copper is always better than curses, at least in the long run. Curses run out eventually, but there are 46 coppers.

What I would be concerned about, are situations which completely wreck the next turn of your opponent. If you have played 4 village idiots (and you decide not to get the coppers altogether, because you already have 20) then all cards cost at least as much as a card like city quarter, which is a pretty strong card. Playing 4 witches and 4 swamp hags on the other hand is more difficult, because these cards are terminal. On top of that,  their effects eventually wear off.

So throne room issues aside, the card may create situations where your opponent's deck is either full of coppers or they cannot buy a whole lot. I guess removing "+1 Action" would solve this and the price might still be reasonable.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2018, 08:47:05 am »
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Village idiot is a weaker version of swamp hag. Cause a copper is always better than a curse.

I thought a bit about it and I also think, that it is comparable to swamp hag, but I would not say that it is necessarily weaker. Village idiot is non-terminal and therefore simpler to play in multiples and you can get it sooner than swamp hag.

I would not say that copper is always better than curses, at least in the long run. Curses run out eventually, but there are 46 coppers.

What I would be concerned about, are situations which completely wreck the next turn of your opponent. If you have played 4 village idiots (and you decide not to get the coppers altogether, because you already have 20) then all cards cost at least as much as a card like city quarter, which is a pretty strong card. Playing 4 witches and 4 swamp hags on the other hand is more difficult, because these cards are terminal. On top of that,  their effects eventually wear off.

So throne room issues aside, the card may create situations where your opponent's deck is either full of coppers or they cannot buy a whole lot. I guess removing "+1 Action" would solve this and the price might still be reasonable.
I agree; simply making it non-terminal should make it much better and more balanced.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2018, 10:36:32 am »
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Yes however +1 Action must also stay itís part of my theme for the card. Also I donít think itís a bad idea to have tons extra coppers. And like I said if you want to avoid the coppers buy a potion. Or nothing. And you wonít have to worry about the attack if swamp hag was played 3 times which easily possible in a 4 player game. Then the 4th player would either skip his buy phase. Buy an event. Or if there were other ways to gain cards. He would buy a bunch of them earlier on. With swamp hag Iím sure that has happened multiple times. And since itís just like swamp hag it doesnít get shuffled thru your deck as often as a normal action. And like I said you can also choose a little debt if your so afraid of coppers. If apothecary was in the game yeah sure attack me as many times as your want with village idiot. And you may think swamp hag is harder to buy. But not really. Especially if you get to buy it on the first turn. Then the turn after you play it you can easily buy another one. And if thereís a card with +2 Actions itís not impossible to play swamp hag 2 or 3 times in a turn. In fact I myself have been able to play online with swamp hag 4 times same turn. With royal carriage. And whatís better a hand with 3 victories and 2 curses or a hand with 5 coppers.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2018, 11:00:05 am »
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Yes however +1 Action must also stay itís part of my theme for the card.
Could you explain the theme of the card? Village idiot is generally a term for someone who buys too many villages, and I don't really see how that shows here. The theme here is against someone buying any cards? I don't really see the theme here.
Also I donít think itís a bad idea to have tons extra coppers. And like I said if you want to avoid the coppers buy a potion. Or nothing.
You do realize that you are in the large minority here, which is why there are heavy trashers like chapel or steward. Also, it would work better if there was a reason to buy potions, for instance you could replace either part of the cost with a potion. And you know that encouraging players not to buy anything leads to much more slog-like games which last much longer and are not most people's favorite games, but if you like copper-based strategies I guess you like that. Not trying to attack you for that, just noting that copper games are often sloggier.
And you may think swamp hag is harder to buy. But not really. Especially if you get to buy it on the first turn. Then the turn after you play it you can easily buy another one.
Actually, Swamp Hag is much harder to buy. You could always, let me repeat that, always open with Village Idiot, while there is a slim chance of being able to open with Swamp Hag. The jump from even $4 to $5 is huge, so the jump from $2 (even with debt attatched) to $5 is rediculous.

The card is not broken and is a good idea. I just think there are a couple of ways to make it more balanced. Remove the debt cost and make it a normal $5 or something, or add potion to the cost instead of debt or coin, or you could remove the +1 Action. Also, wording thing, I think you need to add (they may choose an option they can't do) to the end of the card, allowing them to gain copper with no coppers left. If you want them to need to take debt if there are no coppers left, (this idea would be bad and could lock people out of the game with it), you could say, they may gain a copper. If they don't, they take 2 debt.
All in all, it is a nice card that needs some finishing up. Nothing wrong with that. I certainly hope I come off more as constructive than critical.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2018, 11:01:34 am »
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Also, could you please put all the images into the OP. It would make it much easier to see all of your cards.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2018, 11:03:32 am »
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Yeah I donít mind adding a potion to the cost.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2018, 11:09:30 am »
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Are you adding it to the other cost, or taking away part of the original cost? I think it would be too expensive to have it cost $2, 3 debt and a potion. I think if you take away either the $ or debt part it should work. I still think you should really consider making it terminal.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2018, 11:11:16 am »
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Well for one thing he lives in a village, so you should get Actions playing it but heís also an idiot so getting +1 action is because heís an idiot. Also since youíve always been told to not mess with the crazies your giving him money to get him to leave you alone. Which does work he gives you something which probably just think is junk and he walks away.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2018, 11:17:20 am »
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Now I see, I like the theme a lot now, but I'm not sure it needs the +1 Action to work. Theme should be secondary to playablity, but maybe it's okay with +1 Action if it costs Potion
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2018, 11:18:56 am »
+1

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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2018, 11:21:29 am »
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That looks much better for Village Idiot. Great art by the way. Moving on (for now).
Potter is very interesting, but it should get finished up like this:

+1 Card
+1 Action
Set aside a card from your hand face down (under this). At the start of your next turn, trash it and gain a card costing up to $3P more than it.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2018, 09:25:46 pm »
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If  I wrote it that way and trashed an estate would it still sound viable to turn it into a mad scientist. Because thatís why I wrote it that way. Or if I worded it that way would it sound viable to trash a university for a duchy. Because thatís why I worded it the way I have it. So you could trash one or the other and still get one or the other.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 09:29:05 pm by ClouduHieh »
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crlundy

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2018, 02:21:13 am »
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Yep, Fly-Eagles-Fly's wording works like yours did. For example, a both a $3 and a $3P could become either a $6 or a $6P.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2018, 10:45:47 am »
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If  I wrote it that way and trashed an estate would it still sound viable to turn it into a mad scientist. Because thatís why I wrote it that way. Or if I worded it that way would it sound viable to trash a university for a duchy. Because thatís why I worded it the way I have it. So you could trash one or the other and still get one or the other.
Yes, if you trashed an estate, by my wording you could gain a card costing up to $5P. Mad Scientist costs $5P, bingo you can gain a Mad Scientist. Or you could gain a Duchy, because $5 is less than $5P. Trash a University, gain a card costing up to $5PP, still gain a Duchy.
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GendoIkari

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2018, 11:33:36 am »
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You might be missing the fact that a card that costs does cost "up to ". And a card that costs also costs "up to ". So if you can gain a card costing "up to more" than the trashed card, then you can turn an Estate into a Golem, or a Copper into a Scrying Pool, or a Scrying Pool into a Golem, etc.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2018, 06:53:26 pm »
+1

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