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Author Topic: New fan based alchemy cards.  (Read 3464 times)

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ClouduHieh

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New fan based alchemy cards.
« on: October 17, 2018, 11:57:01 pm »
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Awhile back I had posted this same thing. But now since I figured out how to post the pictures, I figured Iíd start with a new clean slate. Now that I can post them on here maybe it will be easier to Change ideas.

One thing about alchemy was there were some cool cards that were pretty powerful. But not enough to play with on its own. So the point of this is to create enough cards. That with the new cards it would be possible to play alchemy on its own just like any other expansion. So if you want to post your alchemy cards that would be great. Hopefully together we give alchemy a nice balance to it. And with some new powerful cards too. And maybe make it a little easier to buy alchemy cards or least the cheaper ones. And hopefully give potion some other uses. And of course some cards that go with alchemy, but donít have potion in its cost, like herbalist and apprentice.
Mad scientist

Wine cellar

The potter

Locked door

Secret market

Mortar and pestle

Panacea

Love potion

Magnifying glass

Dragons hoard
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 11:18:48 am by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 12:33:42 am »
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« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 06:45:22 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 12:47:14 am »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 03:29:22 am »
+1

Imgur has a cropping tool, or you can use Microsoft Paint

In all your threads the card picture is too small to read, and clicking on it makes it too big.

Anyway, the cards:
- Mad Scientist has the problem where you can annihilate other players hands, which makes the game unfun (that's why Torturer lets the player being attacked choose). I do like the idea of a card that makes it easier to buy further copies of itself and itself only (a $P costing card that gives +$P) but I'm not sure this is the right on play effect for it. A card being worth negative VP should generally have a very good reason for it.

- Magnifying Glass is a "Silver with a bonus" for $4 - one of the things that generally isn't done. It's not strategically interesting; in games with it when you have $4 and want a Silver, generally you'd buy a Magnifying Glass without thinking. I'd suggest making it give +$1 and figure out some way to make the deck inspection useful in more games. Also remember under the current rules it won't necessarily appear in the same kingdom as a card costing $P.

- Wine Cellar is interesting but probably too powerful. Just buying a single Wine Cellar gives +2VP per potion (as long as you buy an even number), which puts it in a similar league to Tunnel, Island and Cemetery. However you can buy multiple Wine Cellars and each Wine Cellars on play effect makes it less likely those potions are going to clog up your deck, and makes it a easter to make exactly $4P to get another one. If you get 3, each potion is a Province - that's too powerful.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 02:50:31 pm »
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I canít use Microsoft paint on my device. On iPads you can zoom in quite easily and see the picture.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 03:02:36 pm »
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Wine cellar is sopose to be 4 victories for every 2 potions. If you only have one potion at end of game itís worth 0 victory points. So that means they would have to have 4 potions in order for it to be worth more than a province.

Mad scientist
The reason why I made mad scientist a minus victory point is to keep players from buying too many of them. Or if thereís a descent trasher like apprentice, buy a bunch. Do a few attacks gain lots of other potion cards. And trash as many as you can before end of game. I donít mind changing it to let each player decide for themselves though with what attack affects them.

Magnifying glass
I might change it to a copper with a benefit. Maybe make it more like a silver potion strategy. Like a treasure card costing up to 4$ from the cards revealed.
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Dsell

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 03:38:53 pm »
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Wine cellar is sopose to be 4 victories for every 2 potions. If you only have one potion at end of game itís worth 0 victory points. So that means they would have to have 4 potions in order for it to be worth more than a province.

Look at it this way. If I've purchased 3 wine cellars (obviously I already have 1 potion in my deck at this point), gaining just 1 potion will net 12 points for the deck - equivalent to 2 provinces. Adding 2 additional potions beyond that would get 12 points for the pair, meaning that the average value of buying a new potion is 6 points, or equal to a province.

That would be very strong for any victory card, but this is also an action card that can help you buy more copies of itself, or potions. I would consider trying this card at 1VP/2 potions.

Thinking about alt-vp in general, they generally fall into 2 categories: steep potential but they do nothing for your deck (gardens, vineyards, silk road) or they have low and static point values but do something nice for your deck (Island, Tunnel, Farmland). Wine Cellar does both, and it's not too difficult to get its point values into the ridiculous range if you can gain lots of potions. I don't mean to say that a Dominion card can't have both variable vp and a nice benefit for your deck, but if a card falls into that category, it either needs to a very high cost, a lower point curve than other alt-vp, or a weaker benefit than some of the victories with benefits.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 03:41:30 pm by Dsell »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 06:18:38 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 06:44:17 pm »
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ConMan

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 11:56:23 pm »
+1


You can just say "Costing up to ". And it doesn't need a dividing line.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2018, 12:46:03 am »
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Oh ok Iíll fix it later and repost it.
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King Leon

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2018, 01:47:49 am »
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Mortar and Pestle even does not require to be a Duration card. Whether you gain a card now or in the next turn only matters, if you are about to shuffle. Sure, as a trasher, this card thins your deck, but I don't think it even needs to delay the gain.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2018, 01:51:24 am »
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:18:53 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2018, 01:55:43 am »
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And yet Iím trying to make mortal and pestle a theme. It takes time to mash the ingredients. And I might make it gain it to your hand. Maybe that will make it worth the wait.
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crlundy

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2018, 03:05:00 am »
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Locked Door/Secret Market: Even as a Black Market variant, I think both cards are far too swingy. Guessing your top card can be tough, especially for casual players. And even if everyone manages to get a Secret Market, I could get a Bureaucrat and you get a Possession.

And yet Iím trying to make mortal and pestle a theme. It takes time to mash the ingredients. And I might make it gain it to your hand. Maybe that will make it worth the wait.
This will make it similar to Cobbler (since you don't plan to own Nocturne, you may appreciate having Mortar and Pestle as a stand-in). If there are no other Potion-costing cards in the Kingdom, the gaining will be weak. Also, gaining a Copper or trashing 2 cards seems an odd pairing.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2018, 03:26:27 am »
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It may seem odd but what if you had 2 good actions, a province, a gold and a copper. What would you choose gain a copper or trash a really good card like your gold. If you ask me itís a no brainer. And seems to happen to me all the time I have a good hand but I have to trash a really good card in order to use the action. With mercenary Iíve always had to trash good cards to play with card. Gaining a copper get out of jail free card.

Wishing well I get my guess right 1 out of 3. Plus if you want to make it an easier guess keep your coppers, youíll guess right almost every time. Iíve played wishing well many times and Iíve guessed right with copper more times than I can count. But if you want to make the guessing game harder on yourself trashing your coppers too early is your choice to make.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 03:28:06 am by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2018, 03:42:07 am »
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And yeah only one person gets possession, thatís half the fun though. Also only one person would get it with black market anyway. Although it would be really hard to get with black market. On my previous thread secret market was just like black market except you got 3$ instead of 2$. But everyone was complaining that i didnít make it worth getting over black market. So I changed it to this. Making it different to get. ( whatís the secret password?) giving you a free card. Instead of having to buy it. And if my remember correctly the first one win the tournament card. Would get a prize. Followers! Only one those too!

And possession can be double edged sword. Iíve played it with my friends. Controlled thier turn, they only have a silver and 1 copper and 1 margrave and 2 provinces. So I use thier turn to buy a estate. Then they get a new turn. And are able to buy a province. Possession didnít helped me whatsoever, but it did help them in a big way. So possession double edged sword. Not that Wonít stop me to try and get it. And a possession turn that uses an attack card hurts the person who played it.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 03:46:01 am by ClouduHieh »
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crlundy

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2018, 01:32:31 pm »
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I definitely understand that only one person gets each card from the Secret Market or Black Market deck. My concern was more that you could get a Bureaucrat and a Possession for the same effort. With Black Market, you actually have to pay up, so there is a cost to managing to get something like Possession. Black Market also gives you a choice of cards as well so you're not sad if the top one wasn't what you wanted.

Gaining the card instead of buying it is definitely better rules-wise, and helps make Secret Market different from Black Market, so I would try to find a way to keep that approach. Maybe let you pick between a couple cards with gaining one optional? You could also change the +$2 to something like, "If the gained card costs $3P or less, +$2", for balance, but I'm disinclined to make it wordier.

Gaining a copper get out of jail free card.
It's definitely good to have the alternative, so there's not mandatory multi-card trashing. Maybe I meant amusing, more than odd; I wasn't implying you should change it.

Plus if you want to make it an easier guess keep your coppers, youíll guess right almost every time.
Keeping your Coppers might help you get to Secret Market more easily, but there is the opportunity cost of, what if I ignored Secret Market and did something else instead?
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2018, 08:21:10 pm »
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Black Market also gives you a choice of cards as well so you're not sad if the top one wasn't what you wanted.

It's also worth noting that it doesn't force you to gain anything at all. I'd say at the very least you should get to choose whether to gain the top card or not. As it is now, i'd rarely go for it; there are just too many ways an unwanted card can wreck your deck. Having said that, it's possible it could work without offering a choice of more than one card; that's already an effective penalty to make up for the fact that you get the card for free.

I do like the fact that just gaining it directly means no screwing around with Treasure rules. And there's another interesting bonus: Since the price doesn't matter, there's a possibility of this working such that your opponents can't see what card you gained. Obviously some cards have on-gain stuff that you'd have to reveal, so this wouldn't work with those. But still, if you gained it some other way besides the discard pile, it would make a neat surprise the first time you play it. Gives a whole new dimension to the "Secret" Part.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2018, 10:10:27 pm »
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Chuckles you got it right. It was sopose to be a secret which card you gained until you actually got to play it. But I sopose I can change so you can choose to or not.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2018, 10:46:46 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:18:18 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2018, 11:00:36 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:17:55 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2018, 11:04:23 pm »
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Hermit also letís you trash from the discard pile. However your limited to what you can trash. This one lets you trash whatever you want. Not bad for an all cure.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2018, 03:50:04 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:18:06 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2018, 11:17:20 pm »
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2018, 11:33:38 pm »
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Hmm, I'm somewhat intrigued by the idea of a Remodeler that takes an extra turn to remodel.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2018, 11:38:57 pm »
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For instance you could set aside an estate with potter, then on your next turn you would trash the estate and gain a mad scientist if it was in the game or a wine cellar if it was in the game. And if they werenít in the game you still gain a card costing up to 5$.
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boris

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2018, 11:18:54 am »
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I think this could be too strong with the current wording. If you for instance throne two village idiots, which probably would not be hard, this could really hurt opponents. Maybe consider "while this is in play" to rule out throne room stuff. Still, it is relatively simple to play multiple village idiots I believe.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 11:20:43 am by boris »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2018, 01:25:46 am »
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True but if you throne roomed witch for instance, witch would be a lot worse. Unless you think copper is worse than curses. Also you have the option each time take 2 debt or a copper. If it was throne roomed you could take both or if there were really good trashers like chapel you would just take 2 coppers. Also itís only when you buy something that you would gain a penalty. So just donít buy anything unless itís a potion or event or artifact, and you will be fine. Village idiot is a weaker version of swamp hag. Cause a copper is always better than a curse.
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boris

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2018, 03:52:19 am »
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Village idiot is a weaker version of swamp hag. Cause a copper is always better than a curse.

I thought a bit about it and I also think, that it is comparable to swamp hag, but I would not say that it is necessarily weaker. Village idiot is non-terminal and therefore simpler to play in multiples and you can get it sooner than swamp hag.

I would not say that copper is always better than curses, at least in the long run. Curses run out eventually, but there are 46 coppers.

What I would be concerned about, are situations which completely wreck the next turn of your opponent. If you have played 4 village idiots (and you decide not to get the coppers altogether, because you already have 20) then all cards cost at least as much as a card like city quarter, which is a pretty strong card. Playing 4 witches and 4 swamp hags on the other hand is more difficult, because these cards are terminal. On top of that,  their effects eventually wear off.

So throne room issues aside, the card may create situations where your opponent's deck is either full of coppers or they cannot buy a whole lot. I guess removing "+1 Action" would solve this and the price might still be reasonable.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2018, 08:47:05 am »
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Village idiot is a weaker version of swamp hag. Cause a copper is always better than a curse.

I thought a bit about it and I also think, that it is comparable to swamp hag, but I would not say that it is necessarily weaker. Village idiot is non-terminal and therefore simpler to play in multiples and you can get it sooner than swamp hag.

I would not say that copper is always better than curses, at least in the long run. Curses run out eventually, but there are 46 coppers.

What I would be concerned about, are situations which completely wreck the next turn of your opponent. If you have played 4 village idiots (and you decide not to get the coppers altogether, because you already have 20) then all cards cost at least as much as a card like city quarter, which is a pretty strong card. Playing 4 witches and 4 swamp hags on the other hand is more difficult, because these cards are terminal. On top of that,  their effects eventually wear off.

So throne room issues aside, the card may create situations where your opponent's deck is either full of coppers or they cannot buy a whole lot. I guess removing "+1 Action" would solve this and the price might still be reasonable.
I agree; simply making it non-terminal should make it much better and more balanced.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2018, 10:36:32 am »
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Yes however +1 Action must also stay itís part of my theme for the card. Also I donít think itís a bad idea to have tons extra coppers. And like I said if you want to avoid the coppers buy a potion. Or nothing. And you wonít have to worry about the attack if swamp hag was played 3 times which easily possible in a 4 player game. Then the 4th player would either skip his buy phase. Buy an event. Or if there were other ways to gain cards. He would buy a bunch of them earlier on. With swamp hag Iím sure that has happened multiple times. And since itís just like swamp hag it doesnít get shuffled thru your deck as often as a normal action. And like I said you can also choose a little debt if your so afraid of coppers. If apothecary was in the game yeah sure attack me as many times as your want with village idiot. And you may think swamp hag is harder to buy. But not really. Especially if you get to buy it on the first turn. Then the turn after you play it you can easily buy another one. And if thereís a card with +2 Actions itís not impossible to play swamp hag 2 or 3 times in a turn. In fact I myself have been able to play online with swamp hag 4 times same turn. With royal carriage. And whatís better a hand with 3 victories and 2 curses or a hand with 5 coppers.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2018, 11:00:05 am »
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Yes however +1 Action must also stay itís part of my theme for the card.
Could you explain the theme of the card? Village idiot is generally a term for someone who buys too many villages, and I don't really see how that shows here. The theme here is against someone buying any cards? I don't really see the theme here.
Also I donít think itís a bad idea to have tons extra coppers. And like I said if you want to avoid the coppers buy a potion. Or nothing.
You do realize that you are in the large minority here, which is why there are heavy trashers like chapel or steward. Also, it would work better if there was a reason to buy potions, for instance you could replace either part of the cost with a potion. And you know that encouraging players not to buy anything leads to much more slog-like games which last much longer and are not most people's favorite games, but if you like copper-based strategies I guess you like that. Not trying to attack you for that, just noting that copper games are often sloggier.
And you may think swamp hag is harder to buy. But not really. Especially if you get to buy it on the first turn. Then the turn after you play it you can easily buy another one.
Actually, Swamp Hag is much harder to buy. You could always, let me repeat that, always open with Village Idiot, while there is a slim chance of being able to open with Swamp Hag. The jump from even $4 to $5 is huge, so the jump from $2 (even with debt attatched) to $5 is rediculous.

The card is not broken and is a good idea. I just think there are a couple of ways to make it more balanced. Remove the debt cost and make it a normal $5 or something, or add potion to the cost instead of debt or coin, or you could remove the +1 Action. Also, wording thing, I think you need to add (they may choose an option they can't do) to the end of the card, allowing them to gain copper with no coppers left. If you want them to need to take debt if there are no coppers left, (this idea would be bad and could lock people out of the game with it), you could say, they may gain a copper. If they don't, they take 2 debt.
All in all, it is a nice card that needs some finishing up. Nothing wrong with that. I certainly hope I come off more as constructive than critical.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2018, 11:01:34 am »
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Also, could you please put all the images into the OP. It would make it much easier to see all of your cards.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2018, 11:03:32 am »
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Yeah I donít mind adding a potion to the cost.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2018, 11:09:30 am »
0

Are you adding it to the other cost, or taking away part of the original cost? I think it would be too expensive to have it cost $2, 3 debt and a potion. I think if you take away either the $ or debt part it should work. I still think you should really consider making it terminal.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2018, 11:11:16 am »
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Well for one thing he lives in a village, so you should get Actions playing it but heís also an idiot so getting +1 action is because heís an idiot. Also since youíve always been told to not mess with the crazies your giving him money to get him to leave you alone. Which does work he gives you something which probably just think is junk and he walks away.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2018, 11:17:20 am »
0

Now I see, I like the theme a lot now, but I'm not sure it needs the +1 Action to work. Theme should be secondary to playablity, but maybe it's okay with +1 Action if it costs Potion
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2018, 11:18:56 am »
+1

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2018, 11:21:29 am »
0

That looks much better for Village Idiot. Great art by the way. Moving on (for now).
Potter is very interesting, but it should get finished up like this:

+1 Card
+1 Action
Set aside a card from your hand face down (under this). At the start of your next turn, trash it and gain a card costing up to $3P more than it.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2018, 09:25:46 pm »
0

If  I wrote it that way and trashed an estate would it still sound viable to turn it into a mad scientist. Because thatís why I wrote it that way. Or if I worded it that way would it sound viable to trash a university for a duchy. Because thatís why I worded it the way I have it. So you could trash one or the other and still get one or the other.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 09:29:05 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2018, 02:21:13 am »
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Yep, Fly-Eagles-Fly's wording works like yours did. For example, a both a $3 and a $3P could become either a $6 or a $6P.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2018, 10:45:47 am »
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If  I wrote it that way and trashed an estate would it still sound viable to turn it into a mad scientist. Because thatís why I wrote it that way. Or if I worded it that way would it sound viable to trash a university for a duchy. Because thatís why I worded it the way I have it. So you could trash one or the other and still get one or the other.
Yes, if you trashed an estate, by my wording you could gain a card costing up to $5P. Mad Scientist costs $5P, bingo you can gain a Mad Scientist. Or you could gain a Duchy, because $5 is less than $5P. Trash a University, gain a card costing up to $5PP, still gain a Duchy.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2018, 11:33:36 am »
0

You might be missing the fact that a card that costs does cost "up to ". And a card that costs also costs "up to ". So if you can gain a card costing "up to more" than the trashed card, then you can turn an Estate into a Golem, or a Copper into a Scrying Pool, or a Scrying Pool into a Golem, etc.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2018, 06:53:26 pm »
+1

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2018, 09:56:41 pm »
+1

Iíve redone some of my alchemy cards and Iíll also be posting them in the first post to make it easier for you guys.



This one I made a little less powerful unless you have a potion to discard.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2018, 09:23:37 pm »
0

A new card idea for alchemy sorta like smugglers but always give a benefit and also interactive and may even be beneficial to another player.

Love potion

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2018, 09:24:13 am »
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Here's a rewording to match Gladiator:
Reveal a card costing up to $6P from your hand. The player to your left may reveal a copy from their hand. If they do, gain a copy of it, and they may gain a copy of it.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2018, 03:54:38 pm »
0

A new card idea for alchemy sorta like smugglers but always give a benefit and also interactive and may even be beneficial to another player.

Love potion



The price restriction on Love Potion seems somewhat unnecessary, unless the main intent was to not allow it to be used on Provinces. 99% of games will not have any cards other than Province that don't fit within "up to ".

If you use this and it misses (which will be somewhat often), then it was nothing but a terminal Silver. If you use it and it does hit, it still is just slightly better than "+1 card, +". I think this card would be weak even if it cost instead of . Also, in multiplayer games, it's quite political.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2018, 06:28:07 pm »
0

A new card idea for alchemy sorta like smugglers but always give a benefit and also interactive and may even be beneficial to another player.

Love potion



The price restriction on Love Potion seems somewhat unnecessary, unless the main intent was to not allow it to be used on Provinces. 99% of games will not have any cards other than Province that don't fit within "up to ".

If you use this and it misses (which will be somewhat often), then it was nothing but a terminal Silver. If you use it and it does hit, it still is just slightly better than "+1 card, +". I think this card would be weak even if it cost instead of . Also, in multiplayer games, it's quite political.

I don't agree that it's quite political, because you can't use it to help anyone but the player to your left win. If it turns the game into some sort of teams game, then I think it's made its mark quite well now as a Love Potion.

What I do see as a problem is that it doesn't change the state of the two player's hands. Let's say I play a bunch of these, or King's Court one of them. I reveal Duchy. So does the player to my left. We both gain 3 Duchies. Very nice. Too nice.

My suggestion would be to find some way that you can't play Love Potions targeting the same card over and over and over again, with the same result.

Overall I think the card is interesting, with some refinement it will be great.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2018, 02:23:06 pm »
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How does this one look?
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2018, 02:33:13 pm »
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This looks okay, just seems like the kind of thing only playtesting can give a real answer for.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2018, 03:46:29 pm »
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I don't agree that it's quite political, because you can't use it to help anyone but the player to your left win.

Political was the wrong word. Maybe just "unbalanced". Player B gets rewarded simply because player A happens to choose a particular strategy, while Player C doesn't. Technically Possession can have these issues, but only when combo'd with other cards like Ambassador.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2018, 03:53:05 pm »
+1

If the gaining is optional, then why make them reveal their hand to show if they can't reveal it? Why not just make the revealing optional? Also, I think it could be reworded to simply work on all players, which would resolve the unbalance and make the wording clearer and shorter.

+
Reveal a card from your hand. Gain a copy of it.
Each other player may reveal a copy of the card
from their hand to gain a copy of it.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2018, 09:30:13 pm »
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Is this version any better?



However I kinda wanted love potion to be something like this, a love potion is concocted to force someone to love you, hence to force someone to reveal a card that you want revealed or reveal they canít. Hence this love potion was a dud. And then if they did. Then you both get the benefit cause it is a love potion after all. Thatís kinda of the idea that I wanted this card to go by. And I wanted it to affect just player at a time. Hence the player to your left.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 09:39:48 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2018, 11:21:55 pm »
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I have redone magnifying glass itís also posted in the first post along with most of the other cards for alchemy Iíve come up with.

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2018, 11:42:21 am »
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A point on wording: Locked Door needs something on the card to say that the Secret Market pile is in the game. And then either the Secret Market pile needs to be an additional supply pile (as is the case with Young Witch and the Bane pile, or Looters and the Ruins pile), or Locked Door needs to explicitly say "from the Secret Market pile".
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2018, 09:41:47 pm »
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Okay I think I fixed it. So jack Rudd do you have a favorite? One of the largest problems with the potion cards is most people want to trash them after awhile. Or donít buy too many. Thatís why I tried to create some cards that have potion in addition to the action like mad scientist. Or magnifying glass that basically fuses potion and silver into one basically.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 09:45:17 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2018, 08:19:48 pm »
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Does anyone like the love potion as a treasure instead of an action better?
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2018, 07:51:10 pm »
0

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2019, 11:25:50 pm »
0

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #61 on: April 01, 2019, 12:55:00 am »
0



Hereís a brand new idea I had for alchemy. Since thereís only 3 official cards that are gathering I thought Iíd add one to alchemy.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 01:05:37 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #62 on: April 01, 2019, 03:34:42 am »
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How about this then:

Quote
Reveal a card from your hand and choose another player. They may reveal a hand without a copy of the card you revealed in it. If they don't, gain a copy of the card.

Now they decide whether they want to keep you from gaining the card, but that's all they do. No unfair bonus.

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #63 on: April 01, 2019, 03:36:23 am »
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Hereís a brand new idea I had for alchemy. Since thereís only 3 official cards that are gathering I thought Iíd add one to alchemy.
Why does it let you return Potions to the supply? That seems to go against the rest of the card.

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #64 on: April 01, 2019, 03:44:11 am »
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I have redone magnifying glass itís also posted in the first post along with most of the other cards for alchemy Iíve come up with.


Magnifying Glass' lower instruction is a bit messy, as technically when you buy a card you have not yet gained it and would put it into your deck directly from the supply, without ever gaining it. Also it's never specified where that Potion comes from. It says you do it only when you have a Potion in play, but that doesn't say that's where the Potion is topdecked from. It could just as well be your hand or discard pile. Wording suggestion:

Quote
When you gain this, put it and a Potion you have in play onto your deck.

If you have no Potion in play, this will just fail to topdeck one. As there are only very few ways to gain a Potion cost card without buying it, it should hardly make a difference otherwise.

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #65 on: April 01, 2019, 08:28:26 pm »
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Usually you would have potion in play when you bought it, I guess I worded it that way because of other cards like mad scientist. Iíll think of something else then. Cause I wanted to make it so you couldnít top deck with certain other cards in play.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #66 on: April 01, 2019, 08:36:30 pm »
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I wanted to make it so you would have to have at least 2 potions in your deck, also by returning it to the supply you keep yourself from running out of potions. I also wanted to make it like swashbuckler making it harder to gain the victory tokens, but also for the first person to actually pull it off gets nice a reward. Also if the other players are focusing on buying provinces to win, it may or may not be helpful to gain the victory tokens. It will vary game to game. Kinda like tournament sometimes varies game to game.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #67 on: April 01, 2019, 08:47:59 pm »
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Plus with botanist I was trying to make it like swashbuckler except with a different kind of reward. Also I wanted to make it a useful action. Getting 3 cards is useful usually. Also by putting the potion back if you have after you get the 3 cards you could get the harbinger effect to your hand as well. So you can play this 2 ways either focus on all the cards you get or buy 2 potions and wait for your chance to have potion and botanist in your hand at the same time and another your discard pile. So you canít a bunch of Victory tokens. And still get a nice normal benefit for playing it. And others are focusing on the same strategy of you, then itís basically tournament one of my favorite cards, who gets the best prize! Of course this could still be played throughout the game and maybe another player will get a bunch of tokens too.

And with botanist I made it this way so you couldnít chain it effectively easily (except for +3 cards). Sure you might still have Actions and sure you might have another botanist in your hand but what are the chances you have another potion in your discard pile, I sopose you then just get a gold or something from your discard pile at that point. And throne room ing it isnít much different.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 08:54:20 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #68 on: April 01, 2019, 10:47:39 pm »
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Botanist to me makes perfect sense; it's a little weird though because it seems pretty hard to make the VP payoff work, and costly to make it work consistently. This could lead to people being frustrated if the Botanist pile starts filling up with VPs that nobody can get... then later, one player scores and makes off with a huge pile of VPs.

That could be the point, though.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #69 on: April 02, 2019, 12:47:03 am »
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Yeah thatís the whole enchilada about botanist neirai the forgiven, players will definitely have to think twice before buying it and playing it. This is basically a large scale version of farmers market, in many a game you build up the pile the most than another player comes along and takes it all, even though you played farmers market more. This is basically like that but not nearly as frustrating because itís a lot harder to get, and if someone does manage to pull it off, even if thereís a lot of tokens on the pile, I think there will be a little applauding going on. And then some frustration. And who knows maybe another player will get the pot o gold too.

And it may even add a little more time to gameplay they may all decide to hold off ending the game just see someone claim it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 12:49:50 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #70 on: April 02, 2019, 07:44:09 am »
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Secret market has no reason the have the * in it's cost. It doesn't say not in the supply.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #71 on: April 02, 2019, 10:41:08 am »
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Forgot to add that. Now it does little fish.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #72 on: April 02, 2019, 10:57:18 am »
0



Taking a page from botanist, Iíve made it a little interesting. So what do you guys think about magnifying glass since itís cost is only potion should I keep It producing 1$ or should it produce 0$ since it causes a potion to produce 2$
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #73 on: April 02, 2019, 11:12:08 am »
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Also the biggest goal I have with my alchemy cards is to help it stand alone. To me it seems the reason why some hate alchemy is the fact that it isnít a stand alone expansion. All the other expansions can be played effectively on their own. (Obviously still including provinces ect.) however alchemy is very hard to play on its own. And in the rule book it doesnít even have recommended sets by itself. Because obviously it wasnít meant to be played on its own. Now if Donald had actually made at least one other expansion that couldnít be played on its own, it would make more sense to leave alchemy as is. But obviously he wants us to come up with our own alchemy cards because half the box is empty. Thatís why Iíve got so many ways to use potions, or to make it easier to gain higher costing potion cards or to give certain actions that act also as a potion. Hopefully if you played a random game with just alchemy you would get at least one of these new cards that make it easier to get potion Action cards.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #74 on: April 02, 2019, 11:28:48 am »
0

Iíll ask this question again. Awhile back I posted this question but no one ever responded about it. I have 2 variations of love potion. Which looks better love potion as an action or a treasure?

Also I never really got any feedback about dragons hoard. Since you guys are starting to pay more attention to this thread I would really like some feedback from these 2 as well. I certainly wouldnít mind changing the price for dragons hoard if you think itís cost is too high. And of course I can tweak love potion more, before I do though Iíd like to know which variation you guys prefer. Iím planning on making it more similar to contraband.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2019, 11:39:27 am »
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But obviously he wants us to come up with our own alchemy cards because half the box is empty. Thatís why Iíve got so many ways to use potions, or to make it easier to gain higher costing potion cards or to give certain actions that act also as a potion. Hopefully if you played a random game with just alchemy you would get at least one of these new cards that make it easier to get potion Action cards.
While I doubt Donald X has strong feelings about fans trying to fill Alchemy's gaps one way or the other, he mentioned that Alchemy started out as a big set, and was split up due to the German publisher at the time requesting smaller sets (they wanted to sell them in tiny packages, thank goodness it didn't come that far).

What I don't think we know is whether the cards would all be centered around Potions. Taking any other big expansion as a reference point, the answer appears to be no. Even Seaside, which has an overarching "future turns" theme isn't all Durations. It also has tokens, mats, topdecking, and even some off-topic cards. So if you want to fill up the gaps in Alchemy, maybe it would be more rewarding to create new stuff that goes with Potions on a meta level, than just creating more of the same. Potion cards are tricky but powerful, maybe other tricky but powerful mechanics would go with them. And they also have cards depend on each other, maybe that's a thing to explore. Now that I write this, I realize that Dark Ages actually worked with both of these ideas. Or perhaps you like how Potion cards have you pay for cards in a new way, and want to invent something that goes with that (like Empires' debt did), or you like how the set is slightly weird, and you want to do more weird stuff, or you like the magic theme (gasp) and want more mechanics derived from magic themes, like Nocturne does.

My point is, filling the gaps to make Alchemy a better set doesn't necessarily mean you have to create more Potion cards. Having overly many Potion cards in a kingdom removes the tactical consideration of wether or not to get a Potion, and the game suffers as a result. There's a reason Empires isn't all debt cards and Adventures isn't all Reserves.

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2019, 11:50:13 am »
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Well currently mortar and pestle doesnít have potion in its cost so thereís one. Oh no I donít want alchemy centered around magic. With the exception of the dragon and love potion. I want it to be more scientific. Besides in real life love potions were a scam, itís not like they really worked, and itís not like they really made the philosophers stone either.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 11:55:48 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2019, 12:10:22 pm »
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They wanted smaller expansions, then why did they bother combining guilds and cornucopia then? It goes against what they wanted. And they never bothered to make another mini expansion to combine it later with alchemy did they now. Since they obviously changed their minds on smaller expansions they should make alchemy bigger officially. Add more cards to it. Make it so it can be played by itself and then of course a make a few more cards that donít have potion in their cost. Making it a well rounded expansion on its own. After all they have made many changes to other expansions. Replacing cards in the base game and intrigue. Changing guilds take a coin to +1 Coffers. Adding bane to cornucopia. They need to make changes to alchemy too. And while their at it prosperity needs a few 2$ costing cards. Cause as is the 3$ costing cards arenít that great either.

Iím just saying itís unfair to alchemy fans. To make changes to all the other expansions but to leave alchemy all alone on itís own.
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2019, 01:08:47 pm »
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They wanted smaller expansions, then why did they bother combining guilds and cornucopia then? It goes against what they wanted. And they never bothered to make another mini expansion to combine it later with alchemy did they now. Since they obviously changed their minds on smaller expansions they should make alchemy bigger officially. Add more cards to it. Make it so it can be played by itself and then of course a make a few more cards that donít have potion in their cost. Making it a well rounded expansion on its own. After all they have made many changes to other expansions. Replacing cards in the base game and intrigue. Changing guilds take a coin to +1 Coffers. Adding bane to cornucopia. They need to make changes to alchemy too. And while their at it prosperity needs a few 2$ costing cards. Cause as is the 3$ costing cards arenít that great either.

Iím just saying itís unfair to alchemy fans. To make changes to all the other expansions but to leave alchemy all alone on itís own.
The current German publisher isn't the German publisher from back then, so you can't hold them accountable for having other ideas than back then. Alchemy is a small set now, and there's no good reason for a publisher to make it big. Intrigue and the base game were always much more popular, but they had weak cards that were replaced to make them better, and also those replacement cards were enough to make up a small expansion consisting only of them. Replacing all the weak cards in Alchemy and adding new ones is practically the same effort as creating a new expansion from scratch, but more restricted in what one can do, with lots of people having to pay for cards they already have, and Alchemy still being overwhelmingly unpopular. It's worse than creating a new expansion in every respect. Besides, the Guilds changes are no new cards, they play exactly the same, and the same goes for Cornucopia's bane tracking card.

That doesn't mean you as a fan can't try to do it yourself, but from a publisher's perspective a second edition of Alchemy means putting immense ressources into something that didn't work the last time.

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2019, 03:53:46 pm »
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Thatís why they can just do an update pack they did it with the first 2. They were like 10$. Besides for those of us who have guilds already if we want Coffers for guilds we would have to spend a lot more than 10$. That change did not come with an update pack for guilds did it. Guilds isnít the best expansion either yet they did make changes and did re print the box. It would cost the same amount if they created new alchemy cards and new alchemy box. It might be even cheaper because they still put cornucopia and guilds together. They would of had to reprint cornucopia too.

And with alchemy all they would have to do is create the new cards new insert and put them into an update pack they would not have to create a whole new box, thereís plenty of space for 7 or 8 cards.

They just donít want to because itís not popular. Which is why Iím creating my own to add. Because they have given up on it. They could of kept guilds the same. After empires came out they kept prosperity the same, I mean isnít it weird playing with bishop and farmerís market in the same game. Yet they changed it.

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2019, 05:24:16 am »
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Thatís why they can just do an update pack they did it with the first 2. They were like 10$. Besides for those of us who have guilds already if we want Coffers for guilds we would have to spend a lot more than 10$. That change did not come with an update pack for guilds did it. Guilds isnít the best expansion either yet they did make changes and did re print the box. It would cost the same amount if they created new alchemy cards and new alchemy box. It might be even cheaper because they still put cornucopia and guilds together. They would of had to reprint cornucopia too.

And with alchemy all they would have to do is create the new cards new insert and put them into an update pack they would not have to create a whole new box, thereís plenty of space for 7 or 8 cards.

They just donít want to because itís not popular. Which is why Iím creating my own to add. Because they have given up on it. They could of kept guilds the same. After empires came out they kept prosperity the same, I mean isnít it weird playing with bishop and farmerís market in the same game. Yet they changed it.
I don't get what your problem is with Bishop and Farmers' Market. Those are two completely different cards that use different mechanics.

And I'll say it again, the first and second edition of Guilds are mechanically the same. You miss nothing if you don't buy the second edition. This is completely different than your suggested changes to Alchemy. Besides, Guilds IS a lot more popular than Alchemy.

If you were to create some cards with the main purpose to sell them alone, you should put that effort into a completely new expansion. First, it won't be stained with Alchemy's lack of popularity. Second, it will be received as something new and thus more interesting. Third, compared to a 10-card upgrade pack, you get more for your money, because small expansions contain less cards but require the same organisational effort to ship, store, sell, etc..

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2019, 04:30:09 pm »
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your not going to change my mind about these things. I think itís unfair to alchemy. I think alchemy is a great expansion and more people would like it if there more things you could do with it hence more cards. Of course if they want to make a new potion themed expansion Iím all for it, Iíll just combine the 2. In Much the same way that guilds and cornucopia is in the same box. And if they just made another mini expansion and combined it with alchemy that would be fine too. And I would feel the same way if cornucopia was by itself. In fact thereís so much room they could have put all 3 mini boxes in the same box.

We have different opinions about dominion. So letís leave it at that. Caramel, Carmel how do pronounce it.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 04:32:45 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2019, 07:29:51 pm »
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Sure, do what is fun to you. It's not like I mind more Alchemy cards. I'm just giving you the reasons why it's unlikely to happen on the official side.

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2019, 09:06:46 pm »
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Oh I know itís unlikely, thatís one reason why Iím making my own.
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