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Author Topic: New fan based alchemy cards.  (Read 613 times)

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ClouduHieh

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New fan based alchemy cards.
« on: October 17, 2018, 11:57:01 pm »
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Awhile back I had posted this same thing. But now since I figured out how to post the pictures, I figured Iíd start with a new clean slate. Now that I can post them on here maybe it will be easier to Change ideas.

One thing about alchemy was there were some cool cards that were pretty powerful. But not enough to play with on its own. So the point of this is to create enough cards. That with the new cards it would be possible to play alchemy on its own just like any other expansion. So if you want to post your alchemy cards that would be great. Hopefully together we give alchemy a nice balance to it. And with some new powerful cards too. And maybe make it a little easier to buy alchemy cards or least the cheaper ones. And hopefully give potion some other uses. And of course some cards that go with alchemy, but donít have potion in its cost, like herbalist and apprentice.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 06:45:07 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 12:33:42 am »
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« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 06:45:22 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 12:47:14 am »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 03:29:22 am »
+1

Imgur has a cropping tool, or you can use Microsoft Paint

In all your threads the card picture is too small to read, and clicking on it makes it too big.

Anyway, the cards:
- Mad Scientist has the problem where you can annihilate other players hands, which makes the game unfun (that's why Torturer lets the player being attacked choose). I do like the idea of a card that makes it easier to buy further copies of itself and itself only (a $P costing card that gives +$P) but I'm not sure this is the right on play effect for it. A card being worth negative VP should generally have a very good reason for it.

- Magnifying Glass is a "Silver with a bonus" for $4 - one of the things that generally isn't done. It's not strategically interesting; in games with it when you have $4 and want a Silver, generally you'd buy a Magnifying Glass without thinking. I'd suggest making it give +$1 and figure out some way to make the deck inspection useful in more games. Also remember under the current rules it won't necessarily appear in the same kingdom as a card costing $P.

- Wine Cellar is interesting but probably too powerful. Just buying a single Wine Cellar gives +2VP per potion (as long as you buy an even number), which puts it in a similar league to Tunnel, Island and Cemetery. However you can buy multiple Wine Cellars and each Wine Cellars on play effect makes it less likely those potions are going to clog up your deck, and makes it a easter to make exactly $4P to get another one. If you get 3, each potion is a Province - that's too powerful.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 02:50:31 pm »
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I canít use Microsoft paint on my device. On iPads you can zoom in quite easily and see the picture.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 03:02:36 pm »
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Wine cellar is sopose to be 4 victories for every 2 potions. If you only have one potion at end of game itís worth 0 victory points. So that means they would have to have 4 potions in order for it to be worth more than a province.

Mad scientist
The reason why I made mad scientist a minus victory point is to keep players from buying too many of them. Or if thereís a descent trasher like apprentice, buy a bunch. Do a few attacks gain lots of other potion cards. And trash as many as you can before end of game. I donít mind changing it to let each player decide for themselves though with what attack affects them.

Magnifying glass
I might change it to a copper with a benefit. Maybe make it more like a silver potion strategy. Like a treasure card costing up to 4$ from the cards revealed.
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Dsell

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 03:38:53 pm »
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Wine cellar is sopose to be 4 victories for every 2 potions. If you only have one potion at end of game itís worth 0 victory points. So that means they would have to have 4 potions in order for it to be worth more than a province.

Look at it this way. If I've purchased 3 wine cellars (obviously I already have 1 potion in my deck at this point), gaining just 1 potion will net 12 points for the deck - equivalent to 2 provinces. Adding 2 additional potions beyond that would get 12 points for the pair, meaning that the average value of buying a new potion is 6 points, or equal to a province.

That would be very strong for any victory card, but this is also an action card that can help you buy more copies of itself, or potions. I would consider trying this card at 1VP/2 potions.

Thinking about alt-vp in general, they generally fall into 2 categories: steep potential but they do nothing for your deck (gardens, vineyards, silk road) or they have low and static point values but do something nice for your deck (Island, Tunnel, Farmland). Wine Cellar does both, and it's not too difficult to get its point values into the ridiculous range if you can gain lots of potions. I don't mean to say that a Dominion card can't have both variable vp and a nice benefit for your deck, but if a card falls into that category, it either needs to a very high cost, a lower point curve than other alt-vp, or a weaker benefit than some of the victories with benefits.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 03:41:30 pm by Dsell »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 06:18:38 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 06:44:17 pm »
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ConMan

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 11:56:23 pm »
+1


You can just say "Costing up to ". And it doesn't need a dividing line.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2018, 12:46:03 am »
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Oh ok Iíll fix it later and repost it.
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King Leon

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2018, 01:47:49 am »
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Mortar and Pestle even does not require to be a Duration card. Whether you gain a card now or in the next turn only matters, if you are about to shuffle. Sure, as a trasher, this card thins your deck, but I don't think it even needs to delay the gain.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2018, 01:51:24 am »
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:18:53 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2018, 01:55:43 am »
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And yet Iím trying to make mortal and pestle a theme. It takes time to mash the ingredients. And I might make it gain it to your hand. Maybe that will make it worth the wait.
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crlundy

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2018, 03:05:00 am »
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Locked Door/Secret Market: Even as a Black Market variant, I think both cards are far too swingy. Guessing your top card can be tough, especially for casual players. And even if everyone manages to get a Secret Market, I could get a Bureaucrat and you get a Possession.

And yet Iím trying to make mortal and pestle a theme. It takes time to mash the ingredients. And I might make it gain it to your hand. Maybe that will make it worth the wait.
This will make it similar to Cobbler (since you don't plan to own Nocturne, you may appreciate having Mortar and Pestle as a stand-in). If there are no other Potion-costing cards in the Kingdom, the gaining will be weak. Also, gaining a Copper or trashing 2 cards seems an odd pairing.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2018, 03:26:27 am »
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It may seem odd but what if you had 2 good actions, a province, a gold and a copper. What would you choose gain a copper or trash a really good card like your gold. If you ask me itís a no brainer. And seems to happen to me all the time I have a good hand but I have to trash a really good card in order to use the action. With mercenary Iíve always had to trash good cards to play with card. Gaining a copper get out of jail free card.

Wishing well I get my guess right 1 out of 3. Plus if you want to make it an easier guess keep your coppers, youíll guess right almost every time. Iíve played wishing well many times and Iíve guessed right with copper more times than I can count. But if you want to make the guessing game harder on yourself trashing your coppers too early is your choice to make.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 03:28:06 am by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2018, 03:42:07 am »
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And yeah only one person gets possession, thatís half the fun though. Also only one person would get it with black market anyway. Although it would be really hard to get with black market. On my previous thread secret market was just like black market except you got 3$ instead of 2$. But everyone was complaining that i didnít make it worth getting over black market. So I changed it to this. Making it different to get. ( whatís the secret password?) giving you a free card. Instead of having to buy it. And if my remember correctly the first one win the tournament card. Would get a prize. Followers! Only one those too!

And possession can be double edged sword. Iíve played it with my friends. Controlled thier turn, they only have a silver and 1 copper and 1 margrave and 2 provinces. So I use thier turn to buy a estate. Then they get a new turn. And are able to buy a province. Possession didnít helped me whatsoever, but it did help them in a big way. So possession double edged sword. Not that Wonít stop me to try and get it. And a possession turn that uses an attack card hurts the person who played it.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 03:46:01 am by ClouduHieh »
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crlundy

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2018, 01:32:31 pm »
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I definitely understand that only one person gets each card from the Secret Market or Black Market deck. My concern was more that you could get a Bureaucrat and a Possession for the same effort. With Black Market, you actually have to pay up, so there is a cost to managing to get something like Possession. Black Market also gives you a choice of cards as well so you're not sad if the top one wasn't what you wanted.

Gaining the card instead of buying it is definitely better rules-wise, and helps make Secret Market different from Black Market, so I would try to find a way to keep that approach. Maybe let you pick between a couple cards with gaining one optional? You could also change the +$2 to something like, "If the gained card costs $3P or less, +$2", for balance, but I'm disinclined to make it wordier.

Gaining a copper get out of jail free card.
It's definitely good to have the alternative, so there's not mandatory multi-card trashing. Maybe I meant amusing, more than odd; I wasn't implying you should change it.

Plus if you want to make it an easier guess keep your coppers, youíll guess right almost every time.
Keeping your Coppers might help you get to Secret Market more easily, but there is the opportunity cost of, what if I ignored Secret Market and did something else instead?
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2018, 08:21:10 pm »
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Black Market also gives you a choice of cards as well so you're not sad if the top one wasn't what you wanted.

It's also worth noting that it doesn't force you to gain anything at all. I'd say at the very least you should get to choose whether to gain the top card or not. As it is now, i'd rarely go for it; there are just too many ways an unwanted card can wreck your deck. Having said that, it's possible it could work without offering a choice of more than one card; that's already an effective penalty to make up for the fact that you get the card for free.

I do like the fact that just gaining it directly means no screwing around with Treasure rules. And there's another interesting bonus: Since the price doesn't matter, there's a possibility of this working such that your opponents can't see what card you gained. Obviously some cards have on-gain stuff that you'd have to reveal, so this wouldn't work with those. But still, if you gained it some other way besides the discard pile, it would make a neat surprise the first time you play it. Gives a whole new dimension to the "Secret" Part.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2018, 10:10:27 pm »
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Chuckles you got it right. It was sopose to be a secret which card you gained until you actually got to play it. But I sopose I can change so you can choose to or not.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2018, 10:46:46 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:18:18 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2018, 11:00:36 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:17:55 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2018, 11:04:23 pm »
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Hermit also letís you trash from the discard pile. However your limited to what you can trash. This one lets you trash whatever you want. Not bad for an all cure.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2018, 03:50:04 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:18:06 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: New fan based alchemy cards.
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2018, 11:17:20 pm »
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