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Author Topic: Snowline fan-based expansion.  (Read 4773 times)

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Holunder9

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2018, 06:29:56 pm »
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But Iím pretty sure all the reserve cards from adventures say call this from your tavern mat. I donít think any of them say discard from your tavern mat.
Wine Merchant
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2018, 09:09:45 pm »
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Also, Tavern mat.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2018, 09:05:05 pm »
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There I think I fixed all the errors for lumberjack.

Now about horse rider true if there is no other actions that flip the journey token over than yeah itís not very useful. But you might still do it once in awhile because you might have a good hand and not want to discard for a 1$. But when there are other actions that use the journey token. Thatís when horse rider will really shine. I wanted to have an action that worked with journey tokens but only in a strategic way. Basically making combo card for a variety of other actions. And horse rider gives other choices anyway.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2018, 09:36:26 pm »
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Now is this too powerful for a 6 costing card? And I think this is the first card that lets you discard curses for a benefit.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 09:38:18 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2018, 09:41:46 pm »
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There I think I fixed all the errors for lumberjack.

Now about horse rider true if there is no other actions that flip the journey token over than yeah itís not very useful. But you might still do it once in awhile because you might have a good hand and not want to discard for a 1$. But when there are other actions that use the journey token. Thatís when horse rider will really shine. I wanted to have an action that worked with journey tokens but only in a strategic way. Basically making combo card for a variety of other actions. And horse rider gives other choices anyway.
You should capitalize Treasure and Buy phase, also, '...discard pile. You may trash...'

You could make Horse Rider part of a Split pile with something that uses the Journey token, or with something that only works if the Journey token is face up but only flips it face down and not back up, so you would need Horse Rider. I do like it the way it is, but I feel like it could be better.



Now is this too powerful for a 6 costing card? And I think this is the first card that lets you discard curses for a benefit.
I like this new Eagle, but you shouldn't have the really long space in between. See Ironworks.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2018, 09:42:47 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2018, 09:44:23 pm »
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Well sacrifice has a big gap between
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GendoIkari

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2018, 09:56:56 pm »
+1



Now is this too powerful for a 6 costing card? And I think this is the first card that lets you discard curses for a benefit.

This could be interesting now; except that I donít think the action or treasur option are useful at all. Using it to discard a Victory card is a lot like Hunting Grounds. Using it to discard a Curse is like a double lab. The other 2 options are terminal silver or Necropolis; both horrible. Especially since discarding an action is generally bad.

Discarding an action should give you something better than discarding a Victory, to make it an interesting deicision.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2018, 09:58:58 pm »
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First of all Ice Sculptures looks fun; not sure its name needs to be plural.
If you notice on Sacrifice, the 'Action: +2 Cards, +2 Actions' part has a small space in between, then the words Treasure and Victory are lined up straight with the word Action, and the +$2 and +2VP are centered directly underneath +2 Cards +2 Actions
Also, I second GendoIkari's observations.
Edit: Also if you look on the wiki page for Sacrifice (Here it is: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Sacrifice), you'll notice that the digital version does not have any big gaps.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 10:00:52 pm by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2018, 11:03:42 pm »
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But are you guys also forgetting al those action-victory cards I have. Discard an igloo, and log cabin, then you get +2 Actions and +3 Cards. Which is powerful. What if I made it +3 Actions and/or switched action and victory benefits?
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #110 on: October 24, 2018, 11:17:28 pm »
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Originally old barn was in the supply but after a recent reply I decided to have it work with horse rider instead.

Hereís a theme:

You have been on a journey with your horse. It starts snowing like crazy. You happen to come across an old abandoned barn. While your in this old barn your journey has been put on hold.

That is why even though it works with the journey token. It does not let you flip the journey token over. If you did manage to flip it over earlier with horse rider you will get a nicer benefit. If you didnít youíll get the dungeon effect which may or may not be useful. And of course if there are cards using the journey token, this could change this cards abilities multiple times.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 11:31:49 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #111 on: October 25, 2018, 12:01:04 am »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #112 on: October 25, 2018, 12:15:29 am »
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Asper

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #113 on: October 25, 2018, 03:53:07 am »
+1

But are you guys also forgetting al those action-victory cards I have. Discard an igloo, and log cabin, then you get +2 Actions and +3 Cards. Which is powerful. What if I made it +3 Actions and/or switched action and victory benefits?
Just to reiterate, of course you can design your cards any way you like. But generally, it is considered a bad idea to have the strength of a card heavily depend on other cards in the kingdom, or an expansion in general. Scout apparently at one time seemed not-quite-horrible when playtested together with the dual-type Victory cards of Intrigue, and Rebuild doesn't appear quite as overly strong when played with Shelters. Both cards are awful. Scout because it is practically useless without (and actually weak even with) dual Victory cards in the kingdom, and Rebuild because its crushing, monolithic strength becomes apparent once you play with Estates. Similarly, Transmute might seem okay if you planned to pick up other Potion cards, anyhow. Verdict of all these: Don't make your cards rely on other cards that they are not guaranteed to be played with.

My suggestion would be:
Action: +2 Cards, +2 Actions
Treasure: +3$
Neither: +3 Cards

I think even that card can cost 5$.

Asper

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #114 on: October 25, 2018, 05:46:48 am »
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With this being a cross between Swindler and Jester, what's the idea behind it being called Weasel? Also, compared to Jester itself, this seems a tad strong. While it's arguable whether the attack is worse than Jester's (it certainly is when hitting e.g. a Lab, but it's entirely harmless when hitting e.g. an Estate), Jester at the very least can't both attack and gain a card for the same thing revealed. It's probably not broken, but worth noting.

Again about Lumberjack: Going with the current wording, you can't discard it if you didn't gain any card.

GendoIkari

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #115 on: October 25, 2018, 10:37:59 am »
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But are you guys also forgetting al those action-victory cards I have. Discard an igloo, and log cabin, then you get +2 Actions and +3 Cards. Which is powerful. What if I made it +3 Actions and/or switched action and victory benefits?

If people are using this card the way most people use most cards, then most of the games it appears in will not have an action-victory card. This was one the problems with Scout (not the only one).

Just switching action and victory doesn't seem good; discarding an action for +3 cards acts just like a Smithy, while discarding a victory for +2 actions acts a little like a Village. Still weak no matter what option you choose.

I think discarding a Victory for +3 cards is good, because that makes it similar to Hunting Grounds. (Remember that discarding a victory from your deck is kind of like drawing an extra card most of the time).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #116 on: October 25, 2018, 10:41:11 am »
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Without the attack reaction bit, this card actually just works like

+1 card
+1 action
+

Strictly better than Conspirator; way too good.

I think the idea of an attack response that works while it's on the Tavern Mat is good; but it would make more sense if it protected you from the attack rather than gained a card I think.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #117 on: October 25, 2018, 11:06:49 am »
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Eagles was different earlier. It was completely powerful on its own. So I changed it to where itís powerful with particular cards and gets you by on its own. So which version is best. The first one or the second one. Itís either going to too powerful or itís going to be powerful with particular cards.

Lumberjack I donít know what you mean by whatís wrong with it you will have to show me visually if Iím going to grasp whatís wrong with it.

I toned down weasel for you guys! You should be happy! Because I was going to post it with the possibility that if a Province was trashed. The attacker could gain a Province too.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #118 on: October 25, 2018, 11:21:52 am »
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Fur coat

Yeah you could do it that way. However wouldnít it be more strategic to save it for later. How many times in a game do you have 2 action cards neither give + actions. Now the dilemma which action do you play with I mean thier both good. Oh wait I still have a fur coat on my tavern mat. So this is what Iíll do Iíll play goons, Then I call the fur coat I get to draw another card and I get another action great now I get to play soothsayer too. So yeah you could waste it and play it like you would conspirator. So I guess it just depends what actions are being played with. But that was real point behind this card. And the fact that if an attack card was in the game you would save it for that.

Sample:

Player 1 calls a fur coat the same turn he played it so just like conspirator. Player 1 had a fairly good turn he was able to buy a gold. Player 2 called a fur coat after playing goons and then played swamp hag Player 2 had an awesome turn. Player 3 called a fur coat when player 2 played goons so he could gain a swamp hag. Player 3 had a pretty good turn, despite goons. He was technically able to gain a swamp hag However he didnít think getting a silver and a curse was worth it. Player 1 didnít have fur coat on the tavern mat. So he ends his turn having gained nothing. Cause buy a silver gain a curse not worth it.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:51:14 am by ClouduHieh »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #119 on: October 25, 2018, 11:29:07 am »
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Fur coat

Yeah you could do it that way. However wouldnít it be more strategic to save it for later. How many times in a game do you have 2 action cards neither give + actions. Now the dilemma which action do you play with I mean thier both good. Oh wait I still have a fur coat on my tavern mat. So this is what Iíll do Iíll play goons, Then I call the fur coat I get to draw another card and I get another action great now I get to play soothsayer too. So yeah you could waste it and play it like you would conspirator. So I guess it just depends what actions are being played with. But that was real point behind this card. And the fact that if an attack card was in the game you would save it for that.

It's very rarely more strategic to save it for later. Using it right away means that you just got a very powerful card effect; and that card is treated just like a normal, non-reserve card, so it won't miss extra shuffles or anything. You want to play that card every single turn. Perhaps if there are no villages in the game, then I could see wanting to save it so that you can play 2 Goons on the same turn or something. But that's about the only time I wouldn't always call this immediately.

The fact that you have the option to save it for later just makes it MORE powerful! So you are taking a card that is strictly better than Conspirator, AND strictly better than Poacher, and then adding on another extra bonus that makes it more flexible.

This card is basically a Grand Market without the +buy, but instead of +buy you have the flexibility of getting to use it as a future-village. As is, this card is too good even if it cost .

*Edit* It sort of sounds like you're saying "yeah, +1 card, +1 action, + is powerful, but you aren't always going to use this that way".... but the thing is, logically speaking, if you didn't use the card that way, it's because the way you used it was BETTER than that option! So the choices are to either use it as a card that's overpowered, OR use it as a card that's even more powerful than the overpowered card!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:31:30 am by GendoIkari »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #120 on: October 25, 2018, 12:01:47 pm »
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There now you canít  play it like a conspirator at all.

And besides coin of the realm is even more powerful because it would let you play 3 goons in one turn.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 12:05:27 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #121 on: October 25, 2018, 12:07:41 pm »
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There now you canít  play it like a conspirator at all.
Now, this one would be called from the tavern mat, because they're is an on call function. Wine merchant and lumberjack however do not have an on call function, so they are just discarded. Also, you want a comma after turn, not a period.
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Asper

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #122 on: October 25, 2018, 12:40:44 pm »
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I will try to explain the Lumberjack thing visually later today. But I have a question: Do you want people to be able to discard Lumberjack from their Tavern Mat if they did buy no cards at all that turn?

GendoIkari

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #123 on: October 25, 2018, 12:42:19 pm »
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There now you canít  play it like a conspirator at all.

And besides coin of the realm is even more powerful because it would let you play 3 goons in one turn.

Necropolis lets you play 2 Goon in one turn, but it's not powerful. The ability to use it as a village isn't what was making it powerful.

The new version is definitely weaker, but I'm pretty sure it's still a stronger version of Conspirator. The first one you play in a game is bad, but then every one you play after that can be seen as +1 card, +1 action, +, because you can call the previous one each time you play the next one. If there are villages around, you can play and call them in the same turn, so they aren't losing out on shuffles.

I think you're onto an interesting Conspirator variant here though... I don't quite get why the attack reaction is lumped in; it makes it extra wordy and the 2 effects really don't go with each other... you will still really want to call this for the effect; not save it in hopes if getting a bonus if attacked. I would suggest this:

Quote
Fur Coat - Action-Reserve -
+[2]
Put this on your tavern mat.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Directly after you finish playing an Action card (except this),
you may call this, for +1 Card +1 Action.

This might still be too strong; but at least you need to get multiple of them to really make them work.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #124 on: October 25, 2018, 01:40:17 pm »
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Well first of all the blizzard event was a nasty duration attack. And fur coat was the best defense for it. But then I had to change blizzard to make log cabin a little more useful. I might change fur coat so that it interacts with the blizzard event instead of attack cards. That means Iíll probably change the whole card again. And maybe retweak all 3 cards and repost them again.

Asper did lumberjack say gain cards. Sorry I meant buy cards. Iíll change that later.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 01:42:14 pm by ClouduHieh »
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