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Author Topic: Snowline fan-based expansion.  (Read 2186 times)

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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2018, 08:54:45 pm »
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Didnít mean for the plus to be there.

Sure a lot of people like to get rid of there starting cards. Iím not one of them. Iím a copper strategist and win almost every game with Actions that work well with coppers I also donít usually get rid of my estates either.

And starting with one less estate doesnít really change things you just have one less card to trash.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:17:31 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2018, 09:26:36 pm »
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Sure a lot of people like to get rid of there starting cards. Iím not one of them. Iím a copper strategist and win almost every game with Actions that work well with coppers I also donít usually get rid of my estates either.

What sorts of games are you playing, and who are you playing them with? There are barely any cards that work well with Coppers; the vast majority of them either hate Coppers entirely or only like them for trashing. Trashing is simply something you have to do to beat an experienced player.

And starting with one less estate doesnít really change things you just have one less card to trash.

That's exactly what I'm saying though. It doesn't change anything, so it's boring.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2018, 10:14:51 pm »
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Apothecary, beggar, ill gotten gains, counting house, settlers/bustling village, fountain, Coppersmith, stables, storyteller, baron works with estate, triumph, Shepherd, and followers work with estate will. And when bandit fort is in the game keeping your coppers is in your best interest. I donít mind gaining coppers with count to get 3$ or a duchy. Also wishing well almost always gives me a free copper. Will o wisp too.

So thereís lots of cards. That work with copper strategies.

Apothecary is one of the best. One time I won when chapel was also in the game. The player used chapel quite a lot I won the game by over a dozen victory points. Also fountain has helped me win quite a few times as well. Iíll gotten gains has also been a big help and so has beggar. Settlers too. And stables and storyteller have also been instrumental in winning both online and in person. The only one that hasnít been very beneficial is counting house.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2018, 10:48:37 pm »
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Apothecary, beggar, ill gotten gains, counting house, settlers/bustling village, fountain, Coppersmith, stables, storyteller

When you consider how many cards there are now, that's a puny amount. And half of the ones you mentioned don't even count:

Beggar is only good if there are other cards with Copper synergies on the board. You can't win a game just by gaining Coppers; you actually have to do something with them.
Ill Gotten Gains: Same thing here. It gains Coppers, but that's not the same as actually having synergy with them. You'll still want to trash the Coppers after gaining them if you can. The Coppers are more of a penalty to prevent it from becoming too powerful.
Settlers is extremely unreliable. Usually you only want to use the Copper ability in the beginning before you've trashed them.
Storyteller: You are aware that Storytelling Coppers doesn't actually increase your handsize, right? This is another case where it can deal with the Coppers but it would very much prefer not to.

It's also worth noting that Counting House and Coppersmith are absurdly weak and need a large amount of support to be worth it.

Fountain is similar in that it needs support to be worth it.

With Stables you can often get away with not trashing Coppers but it's still often a good idea to trash at least a few.

Apothecary is the only card that can support a Copper strategy on its own. And even then, it starts dudding pretty fast.

Once again, I have to ask what sorts of games you're playing. Do you really never trash?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 10:57:11 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2018, 11:09:52 pm »
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Well to each his own. We all have cards we love and we have cards we hate. If you think log cabin is boring. Well thatís life. Are there any existing expansions that donít have cards that are boring. I donít know of any. So I am intitaled to have a few as well. And log cabin isnít the only card Iíve put on here. And I happen to think log cabin is awesome. Iím just posting them on here for fun. Getting some feedback. Maybe tweak them a little if they need to be.

And as far as the those other cards with all the terms with synergies and stuff. That just goes over my head. Dominion is just game after all. If you think my card is boring, then give me a better alternative. Instead of complaining itís just boring or too nasty, or too powerful. Give me some ideas to tweak them to make them better. After all I donít think you gave me any good ideas for any of my chuckles and crlundy noticed I had it give out tokens, which I didnít mean to do. So thanks crlundy I fixed that at least.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:13:06 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2018, 11:18:04 pm »
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Thanks for the help fly eagles fly. I hope hibernating bear looks a bit more professional.

Holunder9 as well thanks for being positive with avalanche, firn village, and snow shoes. I hope you like some of the other cards I post on here.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2018, 12:41:48 am »
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« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:17:54 pm by ClouduHieh »
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crlundy

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2018, 02:47:53 am »
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Wolves/Carcass is interesting, I appreciate the synergies between the cards.

Wolves: Even though the discard attack doesn't stack, it is likely too powerful at $5. Opening with this and playing it before your opponents have multiple actions in hand will likely kill their turns. Donald X. said Raider at $5 was oppressive, and it has a similar-but-milder attack (I know you're not a Nocturne fan, but the design principle holds). The Carcasses help feed the Wolves, but until someone plays two Wolves in one turn, you don't have any, and are discarding e.g. the Wolves you got to try to fight back.

Carcass: This seems harsh overall. I don't think it needs to make you discard (Ruined Village is already the worst Ruin), and I don't think it needs to fish Curses from the Trash.

I also agree with Commodore Chuckles that Copper is a bad card, and it is nearly always possible to beat Copper-centric strategies. You are of course welcome to make any cards you enjoy playing with, but you will receive constructive and honest feedback from posting here. Some ideas can be improved, but sometimes you try something else; Donald X. shared his numerous ideas that didn't make it (a fascinating read). But at the end of the day, you do you, and just enjoy playing the game.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2018, 03:51:12 am »
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Crlundy I appreciate your tactfullness. Iím going to change wolves and carcass a little bit.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2018, 04:14:15 am »
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« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:18:24 pm by ClouduHieh »
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faust

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2018, 07:05:45 am »
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Wolves is a lot stronger than Cultist, and Cultist isn't exactly the weakest card out there, so you might want to tone it down a bit.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2018, 11:40:39 am »
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I just did. It discarded actions earlier. And it only costed 5 now it costs 6 instead. Cultist only costed 5. And margrave was nastier than this and it only costed 5. Gaining a carcass doesnít effect your score anyway. And how many wolves is each player going to gain anyway. Are they really going to pass up a gold a couple of times to buy 3 or 4 times. Snowline is a theme. You think itís easy to live places like Alaska and North Dakota. Do those colder states have more population than places like Texas and Florida. Nope. Because colder climates are harsher. Less people want to live in places such as these. So itís sopose to have some powerful attacks. It goes with the theme of my expansion. But to cushion the blow maybe when such player plays with a powerful attack they will have a useful defense. I mean I gave a useful defense to avalanche and firn village. Snow shoes. So just wait and see cause you havenít seen all of my reactions yet. I still have a few more to reveal. And yes you wonít always get a useful reaction to the attack. But it wouldnít be a random game if you always got the cards you preferred anyway. Just wait until you see some the other reactions before you howl at the wolves.

And if avalanche was also with wolves you would have another useful way to get rid of carcass.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 11:44:17 am by ClouduHieh »
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crlundy

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2018, 01:16:14 pm »
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I'm a bit sad that Wolves/Carcass lost their interaction (being able to discard Carcass to Wolves), but the nerf is good. It's still strong as compared to Cultist, even for $1 more, since it also militias your opponents, and gives +1 Action if you have a second Wolves. Love that Carcass is simpler, I would need to play with it to evaluate how strong the on-trash junking is.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2018, 02:22:07 pm »
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This one you get to start with +2 Actions on your next turn and start with 6 cards on your next turn. Of course if you were to play a lot of these it could make the next turn too powerful. Of course with all the attack cards. Iím sure one of them will tone this card down.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2018, 02:23:47 pm »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2018, 02:26:07 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:23:46 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Asper

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2018, 03:33:06 pm »
+1



This is far too strong. Even assuming you had to use one Action per copy of this to get it back, it would still basically read +1 Card, +1 Action, +2$, which is too strong for 5$. All Grand Market has in addition is an extra buy, and as nice as a buy is, Grand Market costs 6$ AND has a very harsh buy restriction.

Aquila

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2018, 04:14:41 pm »
+1

A little tip if you want your cards to be coloured like official ones: on VioletCLM's card generator, if a card has only one colour on its banner, put the type of it in the Primary box, then in the Secondary box put 'SAME'. With Log Cabin, you'll want to put Victory as the Primary, and Action/Event as Secondary.

Of all your cards here so far, the Avalanche set is my favourite. The interactions with all the cards and what they do are sound. How many Firn Villages are there though? And you might want to use the same wording as Fortress for it, 'when you trash this, put it into your hand', because if it's trashed by another player's Knight there could be some confusion over whose hand it goes to. Fortress's wording is safe here.

Edit after Asper's 'ninja': Lodge is a fine way to make a card use 2 Actions. I would suggest the bottom  be worded "At the start of your Buy phase, for every unused Action you have, you may discard a Lodge from your Tavern mat." Then give it only +1 Action or make it a big terminal.

Snowy Owl is a simple and effective card, but with an extra Buy you can get 2 Lurkers for $4 anyway. Trash for benefit cards and games with no +Buys still like this of course.
Then writing this I realise Lurker shines in both these situations, so actually this a more elegant design again. Well done you.

Frigid Village is a strictly better Caravan, so that would push the cost to $5. Unless you add an on-gain effect to change this.
And reading your comments on it...are you designing this to be a set that plays by itself, or one to mix with other sets? Almost everyone on this forum will assume mixing with other sets, so that may affect the feedback you get.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 04:26:14 pm by Aquila »
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faust

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2018, 05:56:11 pm »
+1



This one you get to start with +2 Actions on your next turn and start with 6 cards on your next turn. Of course if you were to play a lot of these it could make the next turn too powerful. Of course with all the attack cards. Iím sure one of them will tone this card down.
This is strictly better than Caravan.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2018, 06:07:07 pm »
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This one you get to start with +2 Actions on your next turn and start with 6 cards on your next turn. Of course if you were to play a lot of these it could make the next turn too powerful. Of course with all the attack cards. Iím sure one of them will tone this card down.
This is strictly better than Caravan.

Edge case: next turn you are going to play Storyteller then Diadem, and drawing 1 extra card would cause a badly-timed reshuffle.
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Gubump

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2018, 06:24:29 pm »
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This one you get to start with +2 Actions on your next turn and start with 6 cards on your next turn. Of course if you were to play a lot of these it could make the next turn too powerful. Of course with all the attack cards. Iím sure one of them will tone this card down.
This is strictly better than Caravan.

Edge case: next turn you are going to play Storyteller then Diadem, and drawing 1 extra card would cause a badly-timed reshuffle.

That edge case is too extreme to make Frigid Village not strictly better than Caravan.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2018, 06:47:31 pm »
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ClouduHieh, I'm sorry that you found my criticism unconstructive. I'll try to be more specific.

Making a starting card that's better and more expensive than Estate is a neat idea, but isn't it more interesting if it has a significant drawback that might motivate you trash it? Log Cabin as it is now will never hurt you, so that interesting choice is gone. An example from the actual game is Cursed Gold: it's certainly more powerful and expensive than Copper, but it gives you Curses. Also, isn't it more fun to build up your deck by buying good cards rather than just starting out with them?

One more thing: Is this supposed to be a kingdom pile that you can buy? If so, are there still only 10 and the pile shrinks as the number of players goes up? An explanation would be helpful.

Also, as a kingdom card Log Cabin is pretty much a slightly better Great Hall. There's a reason Great Hall was cut: It ended up functioning pretty much the same as Estate and not making a difference in games. Buying it instead of getting cards that actually make your deck better was always a terrible option, and then at the end of the game when you actually wanted it the cantrip ability didn't really matter because you didn't care at that point if your deck was good. Just something to think about.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2018, 07:07:10 pm »
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Ignoring all discussion about whether or not you can be a good player without ever trashing your starting cards, Commodore Chuckles is still correct about 2 important things:

1) Log Cabin is essentially strictly better than Great Hall. You could come up with an extreme edge case where you'd rather play a Great Hall, but it would be super rare. Log Cabin is actually much stronger.

2) Having everyone start with a card that you would never want to trash basically makes the game exactly the same as having no one start with that card. In many ways, the Setup rules of Log Cabin just play out similar to "in games using this, each player gets an extra 1 when scoring". It has no actual effect on gameplay or strategy. All it does is artificially increase each player's final score by 1.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2018, 09:11:48 pm »
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Well first of all log cabin will have 14 all together so each player would start with just one and there would only be 10 more to buy. However Iíll have to change it a little it has its sopose be helpful when dealing with a blizzard which you guys yet to see. Blizzard is going to an event that always have log cabins with it. Also snowy owl is sopose to have 16, just like port did. You may start with a log cabin and may not want to trash however that might change when you see blizzard.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2018, 09:16:12 pm »
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Some good ideas here.

I think Log Cabin would be fine and good as a kingdom card pile without the setup.

I'd like Frigid Village at $5 cost. I think it would still be quite strong costing $5.

I agree with Aquila's suggestion about Lodge.
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