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Author Topic: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?  (Read 9686 times)

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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2018, 05:07:25 pm »
+2

That's really weird.  That's the URL of the product I ordered.  In my cart, it still shows a picture of Renaissance, but when I click on it, it goes to the base game.  It definitely was Renaissance a few days ago, no reviews, etc.  It would be real annoying to end up with the wrong thing here.

I can confirm that even though Amazon's page changed for a while, my copy of Renaissance did arrive today.

Just to close the loop on this, despite the oddness with the Amazon listing, I too received the correct game.

Unfortunately, there are printing issues.  The scroll borders on Cargo Ship, Ducat, Patron, Scepter, and Spices (but not Research, strangely) are very faded; like the printer was running low on ink or something.  I've reached out RGG already.  Here's hoping mine is just a one off and this isn't a widespread issue.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2018, 05:24:12 pm »
0

That's really weird.  That's the URL of the product I ordered.  In my cart, it still shows a picture of Renaissance, but when I click on it, it goes to the base game.  It definitely was Renaissance a few days ago, no reviews, etc.  It would be real annoying to end up with the wrong thing here.

I can confirm that even though Amazon's page changed for a while, my copy of Renaissance did arrive today.

Just to close the loop on this, despite the oddness with the Amazon listing, I too received the correct game.

Unfortunately, there are printing issues.  The scroll borders on Cargo Ship, Ducat, Patron, Scepter, and Spices (but not Research, strangely) are very faded; like the printer was running low on ink or something.  I've reached out RGG already.  Here's hoping mine is just a one off and this isn't a widespread issue.

They are all like that. The layout sent to the printer was lighter for everything but Research.
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crj

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2018, 05:31:12 pm »
0

Oh no! Not more printing issues! )-8
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Orange

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2018, 05:43:53 pm »
0

That's really weird.  That's the URL of the product I ordered.  In my cart, it still shows a picture of Renaissance, but when I click on it, it goes to the base game.  It definitely was Renaissance a few days ago, no reviews, etc.  It would be real annoying to end up with the wrong thing here.

I can confirm that even though Amazon's page changed for a while, my copy of Renaissance did arrive today.

Just to close the loop on this, despite the oddness with the Amazon listing, I too received the correct game.

Unfortunately, there are printing issues.  The scroll borders on Cargo Ship, Ducat, Patron, Scepter, and Spices (but not Research, strangely) are very faded; like the printer was running low on ink or something.  I've reached out RGG already.  Here's hoping mine is just a one off and this isn't a widespread issue.

They are all like that. The layout sent to the printer was lighter for everything but Research.

Seriously???
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2018, 05:55:31 pm »
+1

That's really weird.  That's the URL of the product I ordered.  In my cart, it still shows a picture of Renaissance, but when I click on it, it goes to the base game.  It definitely was Renaissance a few days ago, no reviews, etc.  It would be real annoying to end up with the wrong thing here.

I can confirm that even though Amazon's page changed for a while, my copy of Renaissance did arrive today.

Just to close the loop on this, despite the oddness with the Amazon listing, I too received the correct game.

Unfortunately, there are printing issues.  The scroll borders on Cargo Ship, Ducat, Patron, Scepter, and Spices (but not Research, strangely) are very faded; like the printer was running low on ink or something.  I've reached out RGG already.  Here's hoping mine is just a one off and this isn't a widespread issue.

They are all like that. The layout sent to the printer was lighter for everything but Research.

That's just great.  I imagine that means I shouldn't expect replacements any time soon.
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trivialknot

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2018, 06:00:52 pm »
0

Does it affect the card backs, or only the front?
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Holunder9

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2018, 06:03:04 pm »
+1

Cool, Kickstarter level QC at RGG.
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Donald X.

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2018, 06:43:19 pm »
+5

Does it affect the card backs, or only the front?
Just the front. It's a mistake the layout guy made that we didn't catch. I had no idea I should be comparing the colors to previous files. How would that possibly be wrong? He got it wrong though.

The Action cards are all slightly lighter too; as Mic notes, it's everything but Research. Why Research is correct I couldn't tell you.

Odds are it will be a few years before there are fixed copies. I take solace in the fact that everyone either plays with sleeves (obscuring this some) or doesn't (all their older cards are worn so they already look different).
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werothegreat

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2018, 12:01:58 am »
+2

Honestly, this doesn't really bother me.  Every single set has slight variations in banner coloring - just look at the recommended kingdoms on the wiki and you'll see.
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2018, 03:06:32 am »
+1

I'm aware of the variations from set to set, but come on, put Cargo Ship next to Research and call that a slight variation. This is way beyond that.

And Donald, sorry man, I love your games and I appreciate what you bring to this forum, but your "I take solace..." comment rubs me the wrong way. To be clear, sleeves don't obscure jack, but that's not really the point. You shouldn't take solace in any part of this. You should be pissed (maybe you are, it just didn't seem that way). This is 2 of the last 4 expansions with significant printing issues. Once is an anomaly. Twice is a pattern.

And to hear that it may be years before fixed card are available. That's beyond disappointing, if accurate. I get that the cards are completely functional as is, but hell, why take the time to pick art work and design fancy border to begin with if function is all that matters.
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Donald X.

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2018, 03:16:00 am »
+3

I'm aware of the variations from set to set, but come on, put Cargo Ship next to Research and call that a slight variation. This is way beyond that.

And Donald, sorry man, I love your games and I appreciate what you bring to this forum, but your "I take solace..." comment rubs me the wrong way. To be clear, sleeves don't obscure jack, but that's not really the point. You shouldn't take solace in any part of this. You should be pissed (maybe you are, it just didn't seem that way). This is 2 of the last 4 expansions with significant printing issues. Once is an anomaly. Twice is a pattern.

And to hear that it may be years before fixed card are available. That's beyond disappointing, if accurate. I get that the cards are completely functional as is, but hell, why take the time to pick art work and design fancy border to begin with if function is all that matters.
Why bother making the expansion? I went through plenty of that for Adventures, but made some more expansions anyway.

But man. Did I answer a question? My mistake. Direct all complaints to RGG. It's not my department, I'm just the guy who sucks it up.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2018, 03:19:09 am »
+3

In Donald's defense, becoming pissed does not usually solve a whole lot.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2018, 03:22:10 am »
+1

Mistakes happen. At least the cards aren't bendy.
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Donald X.

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2018, 03:41:13 am »
+1

In Donald's defense, becoming pissed does not usually solve a whole lot.
Also, screaming in public at people you have to work with isn't so great.

We aren't looking to sell anything to anyone who doesn't want it. If the cards are no good for you, don't buy them, problem solved. You don't get to stop us from providing them to people who do want them; you just get to be mad at the fun they're having. If you bought the set because you weren't warned, well again that's not my department, I just get to suck up that hate, but you could try returning it as defective.

Here are images of new cards next to old ones; this doesn't include pure Actions which are also lighter.

https://i.imgur.com/s3no0L1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3SZ7S8k.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wkcyusn.jpg
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greybirdofprey

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2018, 05:42:06 am »
+2

In Donald's defense, becoming pissed does not usually solve a whole lot.
Also, screaming in public at people you have to work with isn't so great.

We aren't looking to sell anything to anyone who doesn't want it. If the cards are no good for you, don't buy them, problem solved. You don't get to stop us from providing them to people who do want them; you just get to be mad at the fun they're having. If you bought the set because you weren't warned, well again that's not my department, I just get to suck up that hate, but you could try returning it as defective.

Here are images of new cards next to old ones; this doesn't include pure Actions which are also lighter.

https://i.imgur.com/s3no0L1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3SZ7S8k.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wkcyusn.jpg

Wow, that's a lot more difference than I was expecting from what I read from the reactions.
But oh well, I probably won't get it until either I find those Europpean boxes or when 999 Games releases it, which usually takes a full year.
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werothegreat

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2018, 08:35:42 am »
+1

Again, this does not in any way bother me, as long as the backs are not also faded. This has no mechanical effect on gameplay. They're going to feel the same when shuffling. The missing dividing line on 2e Treasury bothers me a lot more.
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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2018, 09:15:21 am »
+5

New suggestion for ShuffleIt: simulate printing errors. You can have the faded Renaissance cards, the bendy Adventures cards, any miscuts there were (was that Empires or Adventures?), and slightly different card backs for all expansions. That'll make it feel more like the real game. Then you can have people buy virtual card sleeves lest their Coppers and Estates get worn out.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 09:48:14 am by J Reggie »
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trivialknot

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2018, 10:34:41 am »
0

As long as the backs don't look different.  The Adventures cards are a bit lighter on the back, and mostly I try not to notice it.

Someone show us what the coffers/villagers mat looks like!
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jamfamsam

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2018, 12:04:37 pm »
+1

As long as the backs are the same and the cards aren't bendy, this is a non-issue for me since it won't affect actual game play. It is certainly disappointing for RGG. Running a business isn't easy and mistakes happen that you sometimes have to swallow.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 12:06:59 pm by jamfamsam »
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #94 on: November 11, 2018, 12:14:53 am »
+1

Let me take a stab at clarifying something.  My main complaint wasn't really about the faded cards.  It was about the response to the issue.

I did send a note to RGG about the cards before I ever posted anything about it here.  The response was essentially: yeah, we know, but since it doesn't impact functionality, enjoy your defective cards.  We're not doing anything for you.

Then I come here and see the designer and primary "face" of the game seeming to say: I don't feel too bad about it, 'cause you can just throw some sleeves on them and it won't be so bad. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, Donald, if that's not how you meant it, but that's how it came across.

So yeah, I was irritated because the response I got seemed to marginalize the issue and attempt to make it less significant.  Now, judging by the other replies here, I'm in the minority regarding my feelings about how significant it is, so perhaps from a business standpoint, the response was perfect.  It just didn't sit well with me.

All that said, in the grand scheme, the issue, response, and my perception of it are all small things, so I won't belabor them any longer.

And for the record, I've played 10 or so games with the new cards since I got them and everyone, including me, enjoyed them immensely.  Faded cards aside, it's a great set.

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Donald X.

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #95 on: November 11, 2018, 12:40:27 am »
+3

Then I come here and see the designer and primary "face" of the game seeming to say: I don't feel too bad about it, 'cause you can just throw some sleeves on them and it won't be so bad. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, Donald, if that's not how you meant it, but that's how it came across.
The lighter frames can't possibly suck as much for you as they suck for me. I mean, there's no remote chance of that. They super suck for me. Why do I waste time making expansions when other people will screw them up?

But your response to my response also sucks. I don't just get to have people unhappy at lighter frames; I get to have people saying I didn't scream in public at the people I have to work with enough for their tastes, I didn't contemplate suicide enough for them.

That's my response to your response to my response! And if this is what interacting with the community is, I'll again be done with it. It does me no good to scream at fans for screaming at me not screaming. But that's all I've got for you; you're that guy complaining about me trying to look on the bright side. I have no sympathy for that position.
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Donald X.

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2018, 02:16:15 am »
+2

Here is a list of layout errors from first editions of previous expansions, when I was properly respectful of people's complaints (I do not know of any complaints about these layout errors, in case you're wondering how I managed that). It was a bummer that the cards were so poorly done, and when we did 2E main set and Intrigue we also put in the hours to get this stuff fixed (and fix up wordings too). We didn't have to do this and I couldn't tell why I didn't just take naps instead. It goes on and on; you proofread, provide a list of fixes to the layout guy, then proofread again and somehow have another list, and then another; for example I have 15 versions of the Renaissance kingdom cards (counting post-printing fixes - turns out the frames were too light). This isn't necessarily a complete list of the kinds of mistakes that have occurred - for example there maybe still be ones I don't know about - but hits on the various areas of a card.

- The titles aren't consistent in height, for example Militia is lower than Moneylender.
- Types aren't centered vertically, and aren't always the same horizontally, for example "Action - Attack" is farther left on Militia than on Saboteur. Also the spaces next to the dash are sometimes missing, e.g. Mercenary.
- The font isn't just way smaller than is sensible, it's also inconsistent, with random font changes like the tiny font on Transmute, and in fact almost every card in Seaside uses a different font than usual (compare Cellar and Embargo).
- "+1" sometimes has no space, sometimes one space, sometimes both on the same card, e.g. Caravan. Once in a while it has two spaces, e.g. Nomad Camp.
- Text isn't always vertically centered in the text box, e.g. Workshop, and cards with a dividing line tend not to center on each side of it or do anything nice-looking there, e.g. Moat.
- Normally each line of text is horizontally centered and ragged, but some cards justify the text, e.g. Horse Traders (which also I think is the only card that randomly has some incorrect bold text). Some cards also just randomly have off-center lines, e.g. Monument.
- When a coin symbol shows up in the text, sometimes the lines are spaced apart vertically to be even, but sometimes not, e.g. Pawn.
- The numbers on coins aren't always the same size (compare the $1's on Herbalist and Philosopher's Stone) and are often off-center in some way (e.g. Embargo). They are often too close to the text on one side or the other, e.g. the $4 on Talisman.
- Looking to see if I could find an error in the art, I have only just now noticed that Pearl Diver's art is a couple lines short of the top; compare the bottom of the title banner between Native Village and Pearl Diver. Sadly the 2E version also has this mistake; we didn't catch it and it was never reported. Of course the big one here is, Pathfinding went out with a big chunk of black on one side of the art, that you can think is a tree.
- There are of course artist attribution mistakes too, e.g. all the cards that say Claus Stefan.
- If you thought at least the expansion symbol never had a mistake, I am sorry to tell you that it's too small on the Update Pack versions of Artisan and Bandit. Isn't that weird. The 2E main set versions are fine somehow.
- And hey, we've had the frame be too light. Secret Cave has a lighter frame than the regular duration cards in Seaside etc. (the Night - Duration cards are lighter too, but there you can say, maybe they intended that). I've never seen a complaint there - a playtester noticed it apropos of the Renaissance frames being too light - but I mean I can't rule out that someone was sad. There's also how Necropolis doesn't match the other Shelters for which side is red, but I don't know if that qualifies as a "mistake" or just a "dumb thing."

You can go see this stuff on the wiki, except I didn't see a picture of Artisan or Bandit with a smaller expansion symbol. I have them right here though, it's a thing.

Of course versions in other languages have lots of text mistakes and who knows what layout mistakes.
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #97 on: November 11, 2018, 02:44:36 am »
+1

Then I come here and see the designer and primary "face" of the game seeming to say: I don't feel too bad about it, 'cause you can just throw some sleeves on them and it won't be so bad. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, Donald, if that's not how you meant it, but that's how it came across.
The lighter frames can't possibly suck as much for you as they suck for me. I mean, there's no remote chance of that. They super suck for me. Why do I waste time making expansions when other people will screw them up?

But your response to my response also sucks. I don't just get to have people unhappy at lighter frames; I get to have people saying I didn't scream in public at the people I have to work with enough for their tastes, I didn't contemplate suicide enough for them.

That's my response to your response to my response! And if this is what interacting with the community is, I'll again be done with it. It does me no good to scream at fans for screaming at me not screaming. But that's all I've got for you; you're that guy complaining about me trying to look on the bright side. I have no sympathy for that position.

I didn't ask you to scream at anyone or contemplate anything.  Those are your words and your definition of being pissed about something, not mine.

But hey, I misunderstood/mischaracterized something you said and now you've done the same to me.  Call it even?
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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2018, 04:58:32 am »
+3

Dude, you sound incredibly entitled. Instead of “calling it even”, I recommend an actual apology.  Donald X owes you nothing—and the money you spent for this expansion isn’t nothing, but if you hate it so much that you can’t handle it, just stop buying the future expansions game. Complaining to the creator of it will only result in everyone else not getting to play more of the game they like.
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Donald X.

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Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?
« Reply #99 on: November 11, 2018, 05:06:56 am »
+2

I didn't ask you to scream at anyone or contemplate anything.  Those are your words and your definition of being pissed about something, not mine.

But hey, I misunderstood/mischaracterized something you said and now you've done the same to me.  Call it even?
You said I should be pissed, meaning I hadn't adequately demonstrated pissed-ness to you, meaning you wanted my post to contain words of pissed-ness. Which would then be directed at entities I was pissed at, who happen to be entities I work for/with.

I do not think I am misunderstanding or mischaracterizing. I didn't call it "demanding me to write words of pissed-ness" because I want my posts to be better than that. I did not say any non sequiturs, it was all classic rhetorical techniques.

People sometimes would like me to side with them instead of people who I work with. That's not weird, and sometimes I do even. But it should be no surprise when I'm not there for you with that particular vitriol.
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