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[eHalcyon]

Personally I like Masquerade the way it is, and I like the fact that in Dominion there are certain card combos that do super crazy unusual things like trashing all your opponents cards.

I like insane combos as well, but Masquerade pins cross the line into being unfun and game breaking, and aren't actually that uncommon in the grand scheme of things, since there are several cards that can substitute for "goons" (and even King's Court is negotiable). I'd even wager that if you're playing with all expansions, you're more likely to run into a Masquerade pin than a board where Scout is worth buying.

why do you view KC + Goons + Masq as any more offensive than KC x2 Bridge x3?  Both end the game immediately.

It's not immediately. It's a slow grind, and unless there's a looter or a pile already empty, the game doesn't even end officially.

I don't mind being hit by KC/KC/Bridge/Bridge/Bridge, but Bridge could maybe do with the same wording as Highway and Princess.

Edit: I guess though, that every time you buy a copper, the pinning player can destroy it, and once you can't buy copper there's no way to get back on your feet. However in pins where "goons" is Ghost Ship or Margrave, the pinning player also has no money, so it would be a draw.

The game is effectively over immediately once a pin is in place, Moat notwithstanding.  Even if the pinning player has no money, they still have a deck.  They can stop the pin and start rebuilding starting with decent cards.  The pinned player has nothing.  I mean, sure, once the pin ends the other player technically has a chance of coming back.  But the chance is probably negligible even with a 40 level difference between the players.  So once pinned, you should resign.

[ehunt]

Having played way, way too many games of Dominion, I can say that I've only had the pin successfully executed against me two or three times - certainly less often than I've lost to KC/KC/bridge/bridge/bridge

[ehunt]

I think I'd nerf scrying pool by taking away the attack part.

[ehunt]

You could maybe nerf Sauna/Avanto by having Avanto draw one fewer card and cost 4. In fact it would probably be fine still costing 5.

[Chris is me]

You could maybe nerf Sauna/Avanto by having Avanto draw one fewer card and cost 4. In fact it would probably be fine still costing 5.

I think it would be way worse and losing the split would be a lot more painful.

The remedies to Sauna / Avanto being difficult are tough because a lot relies on that initial Sauna / Silver connection and not missing $4. I think a 12 card pile would probably be the first thing to improve, since that way losing the split isn’t guaranteed and more draw is available even if you don’t get a lot of Saunas.

Also why bump a thread from 2012 to talk about this?

[ehunt]

i thought it was odd nobody had been nerfing or buffing in a while

[LastFootnote]

For Sauna, I’ll suggest what I suggested at the time: remove the trashing and cost it at $2.

[greybirdofprey]

With the recent discussion on Guardian - what if you can optionally trash it at the start of your turn to get a second +$1?

[ehunt]

With the recent discussion on Guardian - what if you can optionally trash it at the start of your turn to get a second +$1?

that's a really strong card -- but maybe not overly so.

[Holunder9]

With the recent discussion on Guardian - what if you can optionally trash it at the start of your turn to get a second +$1?

Transferring Coins 2:2 from turn to turn is probably too good. Sure, you need that extra Buy but if you have it smoothing/spiking Coins during the endgame becomes (too) easy. And a 2/7 opening also sound pretty crazy. Sure, with Guardian and Baker you can already open with Expand or Forge but that at least requires the presence of two cards.

[Holger]

With the recent discussion on Guardian - what if you can optionally trash it at the start of your turn to get a second +$1?

Transferring Coins 2:2 from turn to turn is probably too good. ...

Not just that, you'd get the Attack protection to boot. I think that's far too strong, no $2 card should be an automatic buy with $2 and a buy left. (Even a strong cantrip like Hamlet isn't always.) It'd also outshine Embargo for getting you the +$2 one shuffle earlier...

Even allowing optional trashing for no extra benefit would substantially boost Guardian, removing a delayed Copper from your deck for free. It would still be an automatic buy this way, converting $2 now to $1 next turn is better than just wasting it. Unlike Tax, it can never hurt yourself (unless you want to be attacked).

[NoMoreFun]

Rats should trash a hand of all Rats. It doesn't add that much except being thematic (they die of overpopulation when they have nothing to eat), but it would make the card more interesting in kingdoms where there isn't another trasher.