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Author Topic: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards [old]  (Read 23679 times)

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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2018, 03:18:54 pm »
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I guess that +2 Cards and +2 Coins would be better than Smithy which is why Cook is perhaps too cheap. Otherwise it is a very nice design.
Asylum looks fine but I have a small issue with it: every deck wants at least one copy of it, there is only a downside if you add a second copy.
Would it work better if you only took Insane for your first Asylum each turn? Or would that weaken it too much?
Edit: For Cook, are you saying that it is still too cheap, or would be without the bottom part? I could maybe just make it cost $5 flat-out.

Added Asylum and Insane. Really don't like the art I have for Insane, any help would be appreciated.

I would suggest wording Insane as "you may gain a Curse. If you do not, return the Asylum to the supply". That avoids the whole "you cannot choose an option you can't do" thing. This version does allow you to keep an Asylum that you gained from the Black Market, but then again if you gain an Asylum from the Black Market, it's pretty rare to be able to play more than one per turn anyway. And I can't think of any other situation where "return it to the supply" is a thing that you can't do. Even if it would get trashed by Procession or something; Insane would trigger first.
Thanks, that was the other part of Insane that I didn't like, but forgot to mention it.
Edit: Fixed now.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 03:30:07 pm by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
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Holunder9

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2018, 03:30:08 pm »
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I guess that +2 Cards and +2 Coins would be better than Smithy which is why Cook is perhaps too cheap. Otherwise it is a very nice design.
Asylum looks fine but I have a small issue with it: every deck wants at least one copy of it, there is only a downside if you add a second copy.
Would it work better if you only took Insane for your first Asylum each turn? Or would that weaken it too much?
The first copy of a card being practically a forced buy in nearly all Kingdoms (it is a Lost City with something good instead of bad on-gain so the first copy is even good in BM) it is not a feature which official cards have. Let's just keep this in mind, that's all.
 I don't think that it is much of an issue as you usually want several Asylums and then there are collision risks so evaluating how you build a good deck such that you mostly play only one Asylum per turn or how you build a good deck that can handle self-Cursing leads to interesting play.

If you change it to taking Insane conditional on playing the first Asylum you lose some of that tension so I wouldn't do it.
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Kudasai

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2018, 06:17:07 pm »
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Added Asylum and Insane. Really don't like the art I have for Insane, any help would be appreciated.

For Insane:

Artist Credit: John Stanko
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Kudasai

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2018, 07:00:33 pm »
+1

Your plot token description can just be put onto a mat for simplicity. Here is a quick mockup. Should play the same.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 07:56:37 pm by Kudasai »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2018, 08:09:55 pm »
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Added Asylum and Insane. Really don't like the art I have for Insane, any help would be appreciated.

For Insane:

Artist Credit: John Stanko
Thanks, this is great!

Your plot token description can just be put onto a mat for simplicity. Here is a quick mockup. Should play the same.


WOW! Do you mind if I use this as-is? It's just perfect! Even the artwork fits!
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2018, 08:28:03 pm »
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I decided to make Cook cost a flat rate of $5, since +2 Cards, +$2 is pretty good in its own right, then there's also the sifting/trashing, so there it is.
Also, I made some adjustments on Banshee I wanted to make a while ago.
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Kudasai

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2018, 08:46:41 pm »
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Your plot token description can just be put onto a mat for simplicity. Here is a quick mockup. Should play the same.


WOW! Do you mind if I use this as-is? It's just perfect! Even the artwork fits!

Please do! I forgot to add Debt and Potion cost to it though. I can change that later. Also, have you considered removing the cost restriction altogether? Scheme doesn't have one and it is well balanced.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2018, 09:38:14 pm »
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Your plot token description can just be put onto a mat for simplicity. Here is a quick mockup. Should play the same.


WOW! Do you mind if I use this as-is? It's just perfect! Even the artwork fits!

Please do! I forgot to add Debt and Potion cost to it though. I can change that later. Also, have you considered removing the cost restriction altogether? Scheme doesn't have one and it is well balanced.
If you could add that, that would be fantastic. I just thought it would be too close to Scheme to just do it like that. I mean, you can already just topdeck Scheme if you want to save it for later, so Plot tokens would be basically the same.
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crlundy

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2018, 02:57:21 am »
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Awesome post, there are some really neat ideas in here! I jotted down a few thoughts about how some cards play, for what they're worth, but mostly I'm just good for being pedantic about grammar.
  • Raconteur: I really like this idea, under-buying to draw more next turn is interesting. There is a tracking issue of how many to draw; it might be helped by drawing those cards during Clean-up (but I'm sure you're trying to avoid Militias). I suppose the Boon is the consolation prize, but it seems unrelated and might be fine without it. Also, the concept could be an overpay event; a variable Expedition.
  • Haunted Mansion: Someone could choose to receive infinite Hexes, and the game lasts forever. Likely not a real concern, I know. Still I'd try, "Gain any Spirit from its pile. For every $2 is costs (round down), receive the next Hex."
  • Hideout: It should specify where Hideout can be discarded from (can you discard it from play as well as from your hand?). "When you would" on Trader and Possession has caused notorious rules issues. I might try, "When you trash a Traitor, you may discard this from ____ to gain the Traitor from the Trash." Also, having cards called Traitor and Trader could be confusing.
  • Banshee: It could hand out a Copper with the Debt to avoid totally locking anyone out. Of course that's an additional attack.
  • Ice Sculpture: This needs to say when it happens, e.g. "At the start of your turn…".
  • Night Market: I really like the self-synergy in this one. It's like a Night Merchant Guild, but the Buys carrying over from turn to turn means it could snowball.

The wording/grammar suggestions, as promised:
  • Fairy Grove: I think the parenthetical part is too important to be in parentheses
  • Nymph: Longer but more consistent with published cards is, "When you gain this, if it is the first Nymph you've gained this turn, +1 Buy."
  • Winery: "Take the Wine" would better match the previewed Artifacts. With that wording, Wine Cask might be less awkward.
  • Cook: Should say "put the rest into your hand". (Nicer in the rare cases your deck runs out.)
  • Craftsmen Village: Should say "$4 or more", matching Sage.
  • Field: Missing the period after the second to last sentence.
  • Asylum: Should say "If this is not the first time you played an Asylum this turn", matching Crossroads.
  • Haunted Mansion: Should probably say "any Spirit", matching Tournament.
  • Loot: Should say "3 Loots".
  • Pavilion: I would combine the last two sentences so it's extra-clear it all happens at the start of your next turn. If you have enough room, next-turn effects on Duration cards try to be a separate paragraph.
  • Commander: Should say "Viking King", or Viking King should be named Savage King.
  • Ice Sculpture: Should say "Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). Then…", matching Giant. "Three" should also be "3".
  • Meeting: Should say "Exactly $4".
  • Pyramid: Should say "When you play a 3rd copy of an Action card in one of your turns", matching Labyrinth. "Scepter" needs to be updated to say "Staff".
  • Staff: Should say "At the start of your turn", matching Key.
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Kudasai

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #84 on: October 26, 2018, 03:26:17 am »
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Here is the Plot mat with Debt and Potion cost accounted for:


And just in case you ever want a non-conditional Plot mat. It is as you said just a Scheme, but the cards that give the tokens can be as diverse and far from Scheme as you want. ;)
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Asper

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #85 on: October 26, 2018, 04:30:14 am »
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  • Hideout: It should specify where Hideout can be discarded from (can you discard it from play as well as from your hand?). "When you would" on Trader and Possession has caused notorious rules issues. I might try, "When you trash a Traitor, you may discard this from ____ to gain the Traitor from the Trash." Also, having cards called Traitor and Trader could be confusing.
Nah, discard by default means from your hand. I agree to the rest, though.

Also, official cards say "take THE (Artifact name)". If that sounds weird with Wine, then maybe that's because Wine isn't a thing of which you'd believe that there's only one.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2018, 08:39:45 am »
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Awesome post, there are some really neat ideas in here! I jotted down a few thoughts about how some cards play, for what they're worth, but mostly I'm just good for being pedantic about grammar.
  • Raconteur: I really like this idea, under-buying to draw more next turn is interesting. There is a tracking issue of how many to draw; it might be helped by drawing those cards during Clean-up (but I'm sure you're trying to avoid Militias). I suppose the Boon is the consolation prize, but it seems unrelated and might be fine without it. Also, the concept could be an overpay event; a variable Expedition.
  • Haunted Mansion: Someone could choose to receive infinite Hexes, and the game lasts forever. Likely not a real concern, I know. Still I'd try, "Gain any Spirit from its pile. For every $2 is costs (round down), receive the next Hex."
  • Hideout: It should specify where Hideout can be discarded from (can you discard it from play as well as from your hand?). "When you would" on Trader and Possession has caused notorious rules issues. I might try, "When you trash a Traitor, you may discard this from ____ to gain the Traitor from the Trash." Also, having cards called Traitor and Trader could be confusing.
  • Banshee: It could hand out a Copper with the Debt to avoid totally locking anyone out. Of course that's an additional attack.
  • Ice Sculpture: This needs to say when it happens, e.g. "At the start of your turn…".
  • Night Market: I really like the self-synergy in this one. It's like a Night Merchant Guild, but the Buys carrying over from turn to turn means it could snowball.

The wording/grammar suggestions, as promised:
  • Fairy Grove: I think the parenthetical part is too important to be in parentheses
  • Nymph: Longer but more consistent with published cards is, "When you gain this, if it is the first Nymph you've gained this turn, +1 Buy."
  • Winery: "Take the Wine" would better match the previewed Artifacts. With that wording, Wine Cask might be less awkward.
  • Cook: Should say "put the rest into your hand". (Nicer in the rare cases your deck runs out.)
  • Craftsmen Village: Should say "$4 or more", matching Sage.
  • Field: Missing the period after the second to last sentence.
  • Asylum: Should say "If this is not the first time you played an Asylum this turn", matching Crossroads.
  • Haunted Mansion: Should probably say "any Spirit", matching Tournament.
  • Loot: Should say "3 Loots".
  • Pavilion: I would combine the last two sentences so it's extra-clear it all happens at the start of your next turn. If you have enough room, next-turn effects on Duration cards try to be a separate paragraph.
  • Commander: Should say "Viking King", or Viking King should be named Savage King.
  • Ice Sculpture: Should say "Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). Then…", matching Giant. "Three" should also be "3".
  • Meeting: Should say "Exactly $4".
  • Pyramid: Should say "When you play a 3rd copy of an Action card in one of your turns", matching Labyrinth. "Scepter" needs to be updated to say "Staff".
  • Staff: Should say "At the start of your turn", matching Key.
Thanks a lot for your help!
Raconteur was an 'earlier' design (As in, I added it about two weeks ago; I've only been here less than a month), and the Boon was for two reasons. First of all, if you had multiple Raconteurs at once, the first one wouldn't be the only useful one. Also, it ties in with the flavor: Raconteur means 'a person who tells anecdotes in a skillful and amusing way.' So kind of combined Storyteller and Bard. For now I'll leave it as a card, but to be honest most of my cards have had exactly 0 playtesting, so maybe I will change it later.
I like that wording for Haunted Mansion, will update in a minute.
I changed Hideout and Traitor (Which is now called Treasonist for the time being) to say on Treasonist, 'You may discard a Hideout. If you didn't, trash this.' Seems to eliminate most problems for now.
I fixed most of the cards you listed, maybe forgot one or two.
For Meeting, I have it as-is so it interacts with debt or potion cost cards, which cost neither more nor less than $ costs.
Thanks again.
Edit: Also, I fixed Haunted Mansion to match Exorcist, instead of Tournament.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 08:42:43 am by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
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Asper

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2018, 09:04:59 am »
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I like Traitor better as a name... Treasonist sounds a bit artificial and flavorless in comparison.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #88 on: October 26, 2018, 12:03:14 pm »
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I like Traitor better as a name... Treasonist sounds a bit artificial and flavorless in comparison.
True. I don't know... Traitor/Trader is a lot closer than any other pair of card names in Dominion I can think of. Obviously there's Knights/Night, but Night is a type instead of a name. I think I will put it back to Traitor, though, since it is much better than Treasonist. I'll probably flip-flop several times before I'm satisfied. If anyone has a better name than Treasonist, that would be great.

Also, updated the mat. Thanks again Kudasai!

Just added this:

Just a simple idea off the top of my head. The name ties into Port.

Edit: Also, I plan to playtest Nymph and Copier today. Should be fun! Don't think I'll be able to get a great sense of how balanced Nymph is compared to other Spellcasters though, but it's still worth the playtesting.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 12:13:59 pm by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
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Asper

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #89 on: October 26, 2018, 12:36:57 pm »
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Except maybe Mine/Mint. Or those dozends of Mountain, Fishing, Border, Native, Farming, Worker's, Mining, Bustling, Blessed or Cursed Villages. Fortune & Capital are also easily confusable, or Bandit Camp and Bandit Fort. Which isn't Fortress, of course. And then there's Silk Road, Silk Merchant, Spice Merchant, Merchant Guild, Merchant Ship... Markets over Markets, Plaza, Piazza, Pizza...
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2018, 12:42:00 pm »
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Yes but say the word Traitor or Trader to someone and ask them which one you said.
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Holunder9

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #91 on: October 26, 2018, 12:45:59 pm »
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Just a simple idea off the top of my head. The name ties into Port.
This looks good but I think it is too weak. You need to buy the card at least twice to make up for the investment into Harbor. Ways to buff it are e.g. getting rid of the cost restriction or gaining a card when buying this Project.

The latter implies that this should be implemented as Event which would also allow you to buy it again and move the token again like with Plan.


Yes but say the word Traitor or Trader to someone and ask them which one you said.
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Asper

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #92 on: October 26, 2018, 12:56:43 pm »
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Yes but say the word Traitor or Trader to someone and ask them which one you said.
Apparently it didn't seem bad enough to stop generations of English speakers from preferring to use "Traitor" over "Treasonist". When is this going to come up? In a real-world game that has both cards, between people with sloppy pronounciation, in situations where they talk about the card without visibly interacting with it? And what's the harm even then? I mean, it's your card, feel free to name it as you wish. I know it wouldn't keep me from doing it. But if you have to rename it, I'm sure you'll find something better.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #93 on: October 26, 2018, 01:06:19 pm »
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Well, you convinced me. Traitor it is (for now).
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crlundy

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #94 on: October 26, 2018, 01:37:27 pm »
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Yes but say the word Traitor or Trader to someone and ask them which one you said.
In a real-world game that has both cards, between people with sloppy pronounciation, in situations where they talk about the card without visibly interacting with it? And what's the harm even then?

It just depends how much you care about what Donald X. would do; as a fan designer you can of course do whatever you like. Courier was renamed to Harbinger because it was too similar to Courtier. Some other names though could be Defector or Renegade.

For Meeting, I have it as-is so it interacts with debt or potion cost cards, which cost neither more nor less than $ costs.

Hmm, that makes sense. But I'm not sure everyone will pick up on that. It might be friendlier to spell it out, "Exactly $4, or has P or D in the cost", but you're already tight on room.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #95 on: October 26, 2018, 01:43:19 pm »
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Yes but say the word Traitor or Trader to someone and ask them which one you said.
In a real-world game that has both cards, between people with sloppy pronounciation, in situations where they talk about the card without visibly interacting with it? And what's the harm even then?

It just depends how much you care about what Donald X. would do; as a fan designer you can of course do whatever you like. Courier was renamed to Harbinger because it was too similar to Courtier. Some other names though could be Defector or Renegade.
Renegade could work. I'll think about that.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #96 on: October 26, 2018, 07:13:24 pm »
+1

Yes but say the word Traitor or Trader to someone and ask them which one you said.
In a real-world game that has both cards, between people with sloppy pronounciation, in situations where they talk about the card without visibly interacting with it? And what's the harm even then?

It just depends how much you care about what Donald X. would do; as a fan designer you can of course do whatever you like. Courier was renamed to Harbinger because it was too similar to Courtier. Some other names though could be Defector or Renegade.
Renegade could work. I'll think about that.

Or you could add "in games using this, speak with British accents."
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Kudasai

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2018, 02:14:52 pm »
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Looks like I messed up the title font on that last mat I gave you. Here is a corrected version.



Had to make a judgement call, but Plots sounds better than Plot. I guess the final determination can be made when the Villager(s) mat is revealed.

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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #98 on: October 27, 2018, 04:55:41 pm »
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Looks like I messed up the title font on that last mat I gave you. Here is a corrected version.



Had to make a judgement call, but Plots sounds better than Plot. I guess the final determination can be made when the Villager(s) mat is revealed.
I like it fine as Plot, but if the Villager mat says Villagers, I'll change this.
Here are some cards I made from my scrapped Heir:

For Pub, the reason there is a different effect for plays after your first in a turn is because putting multiple cards back onto your deck during your turn could be even more confusing than with only one. Also, I'm not sure the wording for Puppets is quite right.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 05:39:37 pm by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« Reply #99 on: October 27, 2018, 05:56:32 pm »
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Here's a new split pile I made, mostly inspired by the names.


Or these (click to enlargen):


I can't decide which art looks more Dominion-y. Any thoughts?

Edit: Also, changed Pavilion. The old version felt too much like an Attack, and didn't seem very good until the later game anyway. I'm not sure it still needs to cost $6, or if it ever needed to for that matter.
Edit: Also, added Slum Market
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 06:49:02 pm by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
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