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[2.71828.....]

Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.

You are telling me that you have never read someone as scum and they turned out to be a PR?

[EFHW]

Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.

Space tracked e and got that he targeted no one.

That doesn't clear me though

It does greatly reduce the likelihood that you are scum. For you to be scum, mafia would have had to give up using one of their powers. We have some reason to think they used the Rolecop N1, when Space tracked you.

[EFHW]

Are you ready for one of my arcane theories? I'm thinking scum!Joseph knows I am town. He mimics my post, consciously or not, to seem towny. But when PPS and mcmc come out strongly against me, he opportunistically jumps on my wagon. I'd say town!Joseph would do the same if he strongly townread me, but town!Joseph seems to think I am scum. Would he then mimic my post, consciously or not?

As much as I like the pretty pictures, I cannot suffer a witch to live and therefore must IC myself in this way.

Good to know.

As much as I like the pretty pictures, I cannot suffer a witch to live and therefore must IC myself in this way.

Good to know thanks

Vote: EFHW
I liked it D1 and so far everything in D3 is making me like it more and more

[EFHW]

The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.

Vote: hypercube

@Joseph: Why did this post lead you to vote hypercube?

[EFHW]

And I forgot that hypercube = chairs, definitely happy with my vote there then

I guess this explains it. Sorry for all the stream of consciousness.

I'll set my lynchpool for today at: {Dylan, Awaclus, Fang}

[WestCoastDidds]

1. pingpongsam -- possible scum. Check back on his communications with Hyper, and see whether there's a little more familiarity there than beween hyper and other vets. CONFIRM TOWN
2. 2.71828..... -- targeted nobody N1, so I've been using that as evidence of towniness.
3. Dylan32 -- under the radar
4. DatSwan -- under the radar
5. Joseph2302 -- less likely to be scum now that we know hyper is. Always seems anti-town to me anyway.
6. infangthief -- less likely to be scum now that hyper is, *and* I expect hyper's scumbuddies to be vets.
7. faust -- dead town.
8. SpaceAnemone -- soon-to-be-dead town
9. Awaclus -- null
10. WestCoastDidds -- prob!town
11. EFHW -- prob!town
12. mcmcsalot -- I'm suspicious.
13. Robz888 -- dead-ish town.
14. hyper -- conf!scum

I'm quoting this to bring it forward so its easier to find. (I added colors and a note about PPS) So, Space would have us look more carefully at Mcmc and Dylan, and I think add Awaclus to that list too since he has been so absent and on me so frequently. Cursory reread has Mcmc more towny than the other two.

I didn't find EFHW's move to Dylan scummy...it happened after the claim and before the CC and it was more of an idea for a lynch rather than a deliberate move, at least the way I read it. I also think Fang tends to buddy because of the kind of person he is. I think I tend to do it, too, for the same reason. But Space's reading of him was based on the idea that scum wasn't two of the new folks, so he is not completely in the clear.

Any thoughts on Dylan or Awaclus?

[pingpongsam]

And I forgot that hypercube = chairs, definitely happy with my vote there then

I guess this explains it. Sorry for all the stream of consciousness.

I'll set my lynchpool for today at: {Dylan, Awaclus, Fang}

Why no mcmc? Also you just seemed to question Joseph's alignment but he is not in the pool?

[pingpongsam]

I will admit that most of my analysis will be predicated on both WCD and Joseph being town.

I'm on board with the assumption re: WCD. But why Joseph? Because of Robz's read? Because the scum-reading of WCD was based on Joseph being scum?

I've town read Joseph since the perceived town slip D1. All the negative attention he has received has looked like town getting dog piled and his reactions to all of it have been towny. In fact, I don't recall a single thing Joseph did that did not solidify my town read. I am admittedly town tunneling Joseph but at this point I feel like it is a smart assumption to put a pin in for otherwise finding scum. I have had reservations that if Joseph is scum and they win the gloat he will have on me constantly steering us away from him. I'm out of the game after tonight and I sincerely hope to hit scum today. I see him becoming fair game after today.

[mcmcsalot]

Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.

Space tracked e and got that he targeted no one.

That doesn't clear me though

It does greatly reduce the likelihood that you are scum. For you to be scum, mafia would have had to give up using one of their powers. We have some reason to think they used the Rolecop N1, when Space tracked you.

Yea I forgot this, while it’s possible that scum roleblocked space I think that’s extremely unlikely and more unlikely scum!E would have not taken an action night 1. So pretty confident in town!E.

[mcmcsalot]

I am busy for most of the day but hope to post up something good this afternoon. I am on forum time. If EFHW is scum I want to try to link no more than 2 likely partners. I also want to form a strong to weak list of potential scum players if EFHW is town.

When I get time I’ll do a full re-read for efhw partners.

Can I just remind you that you've been in this place before about me, and I was town? It's happening again. PPS says "if" I am scum, "if" I am town. You say you're looking for my partners, like there is no if about me being scum.

This is 100% true. I really do think you are scum but I was certain you were scum in that game as well. Do you remember which game it was? It was recent a quick read of it would probably be a good idea.

[infangthief]

I also have been interested in the Joseph situation. Done a reread of interactions between chairs/hypercube and Joseph. Key areas are:

1. Early day 1 Joseph was the first one on chairs wagon, there was a bit of exchange between them, ending in Joseph stating that chairs was "Currently the most preferred option" for day 1 lynch. At that time chairs was on 3 votes and it was just under 3 days until deadline. (#234)

2. chairs was replaced by hypercube, whose first action was to vote Joseph. (#274)

3. When hypercube argued against the case on chairs, Joseph voted hypercube then realised hypercube = chairs and said 'definitely happy with my vote there'. (#349)

4. End of day 1, hypercube likes the Joseph wagon more than the Robz wagon (#380), joins as 4th on the wagon (making it the leading wagon) and is still happy with his vote on Joseph when the wagons are Joseph 5, EFHW 3, Robz 3. (#406). This is 6 hours before deadline.

5. Near the D1 deadline, hypercube follows faust from Joseph to Space (D-30mins), says he's 'obviously willing to go back' (D-5mins) and actually does go back (D-2mins). Wagons are Robz 6, Joseph 3.

6. Day 2, hypercube says it could have been better to get more people onto Joseph at end of day 1 (#519), thinks lynching Joseph would give us a good deal of information (#553) and wonders why other people are certain that Joseph is town (#571). Moves from Joseph to EFHW in deference to IC Robz. (#576)

7. Joseph suggests a hyper-space team (#520)

8. Near the D2 deadline, Joseph would prefer neither WCD nor hypercube (#739), but votes WCD (better of the two) to put the wagons at WCD 5, hyper 4.

9. PPS disagrees with Joseph, then Joseph votes for hypercube ("Actually, let's sheep the IC"), to put the wagons at hyper 6, WCD 4.

Now, there are a couple of things that make me think they could be partners - basically items 5 and 8 above.
But overall there's been a lot more of them voting for each other than I would expect if they were partners. Item 4 especially makes it look unlikely.
So no, count me out of a Joseph lynch.

PPE: 3

[EFHW]

And I forgot that hypercube = chairs, definitely happy with my vote there then

I guess this explains it. Sorry for all the stream of consciousness.

I'll set my lynchpool for today at: {Dylan, Awaclus, Fang}

Why no mcmc? Also you just seemed to question Joseph's alignment but he is not in the pool?

I realized that he was consistently anti-chairs Day 1. Could be a ploy, but I don't see that as a strong possibility.

mcmc tunnels me as town. It's possible he thinks he can get me mislynched, but there are easier targets.

[infangthief]

And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.

Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.

I would like to bet that I read it more thoroughly than you.

The things I found odd were:
- that his timeline about EFHW's vote on Dylan was wrong. It would be obvious to anyone who'd read and tried to understand yesterday's end of day.
- his comments about Joseph's voting choices at the end of the day. Saying Joseph could have switched to WCD and didn't, therefore Joseph is likely to be town. No comment on the fact that Joseph did actually go for WCD to begin with, and only came across to hypercube when his vote choice was criticised by PPS.

You say 'without making a case'. On who? DatSwan? Well maybe I will sometime. But the main thing that I'm getting from DatSwan's posts is "this guy thinks deeply about things, but misses important details and comes to strange conclusions". Like when I read his posts I find lots to disagree with, but I get the feeling that's just him being him, not him being scum.

[EFHW]

This is 100% true. I really do think you are scum but I was certain you were scum in that game as well. Do you remember which game it was? It was recent a quick read of it would probably be a good idea.

It was Okkervil mafia

@mcmc - remember for next time that I was town here!

Yea, I was surprised even at the end. I have to go back and see exactly why I scumread you.

[EFHW]

Guys, I'm super sorry. Had a work conference today that had me VLA, forgot to post about it, and I have some stuff I have to get done before tomorrow morning, so I won't be able to catch up tonight and have a really busy day tomorrow, so I'm basically LA until Monday.

Request prod on Dylan

[EFHW]

@fang: Have you played mafia other places?

[Dylan32]

No need to send prod. I'll catch up this afternoon.

[Awaclus]

Vote: fang

[infangthief]

I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.

But I think this could do with some more explanation:

Scum!me would have voted WCD.

This post is extremely partnery. It’s a super vague defense of efhw while leading her to give some defense of herself.

I agree it has a buddying feel to it. I've noticed that other times during this game. It's so nice to have people who agree with you when you are all alone as town, I hate to question it, but he has been very quiet since he said he realized it's a marathon not a sprint.

Maybe I'll explain why I've been trusting you.
I thought you made an ultra towny response to my lynch faust day 1 suggestion. Then when you started questioning PPS based on his response to one of my questions, I thought, this is good, multi-person dynamics, better than the 1v1s I found myself doing in my other game. So I think I've been inclined to see the towniness and reasonableness of what you've said since.

It seems helpful to have someone to trust a bit. I think in NM13 I found myself trusting LaLight... and he ended up being scum. So yes at some point I will need to do a critical reread. Maybe now's the time for that. Then I might have some objective reasons for joining your wagon or arguing against it.

[WestCoastDidds]

I reread Awaclus, and it is about what you would expect...very little information. Absent a couple of back and forths with me about why I am town, and encouraging Fang to vote chairs(hyper), there hasn't been a lot of interaction. He also hasn't been on any of the lynch wagons.

The votes on chairs are interesting since we know he was scum. He proposed chairs, pushed Fang toward it, but then left it and wasn't part of actually lynching him. He has mostly voted for me, but I can't really figure out what. He has repeated that his town meta is to help town, but I am not sure he is meeting that threshold. I don't see anything helpful here.

For those of you who have played with him before, what is he like as scum?

Here is an abbreviated history- he has 33 total posts.  All of his votes are just votes, no explanation.
101- vote PPS
136- vote chairs
137- says Fangs 133 comments is correct
139- clarifies that he was agreeing with Fang
266- tells Fang to start pushing chairs (hyper)
276- In response to Fang, says he won’t share chairs (hyper) case
281- vote WCD
340- It is my town meta to convince people to be productive and share info that helps town and doesn't help scum.
378- asks Mcmc is he is scum partners with WCD
379- vote mcmc
Day 2
601- vote Dylan
722- vote WCD
Day 3
892- vote Fang

[Swowl]

And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.

Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.

I would like to bet that I read it more thoroughly than you.

The things I found odd were:
- that his timeline about EFHW's vote on Dylan was wrong. It would be obvious to anyone who'd read and tried to understand yesterday's end of day.
- his comments about Joseph's voting choices at the end of the day. Saying Joseph could have switched to WCD and didn't, therefore Joseph is likely to be town. No comment on the fact that Joseph did actually go for WCD to begin with, and only came across to hypercube when his vote choice was criticised by PPS.

You say 'without making a case'. On who? DatSwan? Well maybe I will sometime. But the main thing that I'm getting from DatSwan's posts is "this guy thinks deeply about things, but misses important details and comes to strange conclusions". Like when I read his posts I find lots to disagree with, but I get the feeling that's just him being him, not him being scum.

To clarify something: The bolded question to EFHW I asked regarding why they would of switched off wagon was, in hindsight, very poorly worded. My intention was for it to come off as "why move after the claim, and then not move back to a wagon after the CC".

- The clarification is seemingly unimportant to EFHW's alignment - The point that EFHW as skum would of probably gone for WCD is a decent point.

- More importantly, I find the scrutiny of your second observation fairly backwards. The fact that PPS scrutinized his vote choice is just a random player saying something about the vote at that point (as PPS was not IC'd at that point). Furthermore, I do not consider Joseph's actions "going after WCD". They stated they did not like either wagon, then voted WCD for 4 posts/2 hours worth of time, then moved and stayed on hypercube.

So in summary - no. I did not miss anything, I just write like a 4th grader. And I disagree with you second point.

[Swowl]

I reread Awaclus, and it is about what you would expect...very little information. Absent a couple of back and forths with me about why I am town, and encouraging Fang to vote chairs(hyper), there hasn't been a lot of interaction. He also hasn't been on any of the lynch wagons.

The votes on chairs are interesting since we know he was scum. He proposed chairs, pushed Fang toward it, but then left it and wasn't part of actually lynching him. He has mostly voted for me, but I can't really figure out what. He has repeated that his town meta is to help town, but I am not sure he is meeting that threshold. I don't see anything helpful here.

For those of you who have played with him before, what is he like as scum?

Here is an abbreviated history- he has 33 total posts.  All of his votes are just votes, no explanation.
101- vote PPS
136- vote chairs
137- says Fangs 133 comments is correct
139- clarifies that he was agreeing with Fang
266- tells Fang to start pushing chairs (hyper)
276- In response to Fang, says he won’t share chairs (hyper) case
281- vote WCD
340- It is my town meta to convince people to be productive and share info that helps town and doesn't help scum.
378- asks Mcmc is he is scum partners with WCD
379- vote mcmc
Day 2
601- vote Dylan
722- vote WCD
Day 3
892- vote Fang

Votes without reason is NAI for Awaclus.
It is annoying, but I am fairly certain no one is going to argue with the statement.

[EFHW]

The bolded question to EFHW I asked regarding why they would of switched off wagon was, in hindsight, very poorly worded. My intention was for it to come off as "why move after the claim, and then not move back to a wagon after the CC".

- The clarification is seemingly unimportant to EFHW's alignment - The point that EFHW as skum would of probably gone for WCD is a decent point.

I was no longer online at the time of the counterclaim.

[Dylan32]

I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.

But I think this could do with some more explanation:

Scum!me would have voted WCD.

This post is extremely partnery. It’s a super vague defense of efhw while leading her to give some defense of herself.

I agree it has a buddying feel to it. I've noticed that other times during this game. It's so nice to have people who agree with you when you are all alone as town, I hate to question it, but he has been very quiet since he said he realized it's a marathon not a sprint.

So in general, I have continued to find EFHW scummy through D3 so far, but this post just stuck out.  The "when you are all alone as town" bit seems a bit convenient of a word-choice after e's comment the other day comparing and contrasting a "me against the world" vs a "me and my team trying to nail down townies as lynches" (post 690).  But generally this just feels like EFHW was trying to ride the town-read/general agreement until it was pointed out as potentially making her look scummy if fang turns out as scum.

On a different note:

...

I can claim now, if people would like?

Have people forgotten that Joseph seemed to want to claim something and yet all the town PRs are accounted for?
Vig=pps
Tracker=Space
Redeemed Soul=Robz

Would Joseph have actually posted this question if he was just going to claim VT?

[Dylan32]

There is still a scum Roleblocker out there, and Joseph might have been planning a fake tracker claim.