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Author Topic: M119: Towny Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 140759 times)

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Swowl

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #550 on: November 06, 2018, 03:11:17 am »

I voted Robz because of his quick lynch suggestion. 1stly that is actually scummy. 2ndly, it's the expected result when you make such suggestions. Robz knows that is scummy and I figured he was generating a wagon for some purpose. When the IC flip occurred I figured that was actually his intent which seems a bit behind the better objective of find and kill scum which he was never present enough to actually do. It would be super good if he actually made use of the fact he is an IC for a day.

I dispute that proposing a quicklynch is scummy in general or scummy for me specifically.

it is skummy. just because you are town and decided to push it this time (or in other games where you may have been town) does not make the concept pro-town. It is bad. There is never an upside to limiting input and information. It always benefits skum more than town.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #551 on: November 06, 2018, 03:26:59 am »

I wanted to bring this up D1, but did not find the time.

Regarding the PR claiming stuff - I actually disagree with Fauts' assessment. It would seem that because we do not get a determinate flip (especially now we know Robz is the IC) for a prolonged day... the later in the game claims take place, the more useful they are to skum. This makes claims earlier on less viable to skum.

Claims at this point are useless. A town claim can consist of 1/2 roles (vig or tracker). If they are vig there is no point in risking it, they might as well just shoot to prove it and get themselves off the next block. Tracker could claim and then would be forced to give their info on tracks done thus far.

As the scenario for a lynch and flip in the game is:
1) player is put to L-1
2) either player is lynched or another player is lynched
3) then we have to wait a day to find out what the flip is....

claiming doesn't really matter. we should not promote the idea. either skum fake claims and outs the real PR or it the real PR claiming, which only skum will know. Point being, there is the same downside to claiming while at L-1 and only town upside to revealing results after being put on the guillotine.

It isn't fun to think about, but it seems correct to me.

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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #552 on: November 06, 2018, 03:27:42 am »

Vote: Fang
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

hypercube

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #553 on: November 06, 2018, 06:53:23 am »

Why do I seem partnery towards Joseph?

Well, I found this post kind of odd:

Apologies for being absent. My students took up more time than expected with the Halloween Holiday.
I will have more detail in the morning.
However, for now, the core point, for me at least... is that skum could not of known that Robz was IC (therefore they did not expect to have to deal with a Town flip on Day 2).
The main wagons seemed to be Joseph and Robz. There is no way of knowing whether or not they are BOTH town or not (something that Skum would know). So, instead of focusing on Joseph, I think we would be better suited focusing at least some effort on those switching between the Joseph/Robz wagons, as well as those that avoided them all together.

Specifically the idea that there's no way of knowing whether Joseph is town or not. The obvious way to find out is to lynch Joseph, which at this point seems like it could give us a good deal of information. That, combined with this:

I can claim now, if people would like?

leads me to vote: Joseph.

I'll have to reread fang, some of the things he's said do seem scummy but that's what I thought in NM13 too and he turned out to be town there.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #554 on: November 06, 2018, 07:28:25 am »

I'm still thinking about where I stand, but I'm glad to see her making an actual case in her recent post.

That's a completely fair assessment. I'm working on trying to make better cases and have more substantive comments. I find it quite difficult on D1 since there is so little to go on. I fully admit most of contributions were if the "here is what I see you saying" variety. As others build cases, it's easier for me to see holes than build my own. But I recognize that is not an entirely helpful skill set.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #555 on: November 06, 2018, 07:41:16 am »


Where is Mcmc??
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #556 on: November 06, 2018, 08:55:11 am »

I’m here sorry been super super busy catching up now
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #557 on: November 06, 2018, 09:01:38 am »

Also, no one except Robz knew he was redeemed, so his being ic now is not relevant to the badness of the wagon.

This is relevant, and Robz hadn't given us any reason to think he was that townie. I assume he thought that the combination of being VLA and having a meta of being extremely absent in general would get him through D1. Personally, I'd missed that he had a several-day-long VLA posted after his slow start to the game.

I still think the lack of interaction between Robz and mcmc is a little odd, as is the fact that mcmc hid his defense of Robz in the same post as a vote for me. Those two usually know what's going on with one another, and mcmc made no mention of Robz's VLA, only that he was very busy. (Note for newbies who may not have come across this before: Robz and mcmc are real-life brothers).

This is a large mis-characterization of how I acted towards robz. I never defended him only repeatedly pointed out that he had done almost nothing alignment indicative for his meta. Also it’s hard to interact with him when he was gone most of the day. This is a scummy post throwing very lose shade at me.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #558 on: November 06, 2018, 09:11:36 am »

vote: efhw

Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.

I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #559 on: November 06, 2018, 09:13:50 am »

DatSwan very towny as usual and I agree fang is exuding lots of newbie scum tendencies.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

EFHW

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #560 on: November 06, 2018, 09:50:49 am »

vote: efhw

Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.

I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
In actuality, when WCD voted Robz I concluded he was probably town. Then I got on the Joseph wagon because it was the only other viable one. If I didn't care who got lynched, I would have just stayed on Robz. I had no reason to jump around.

Are you being sloppy or trying to mislynch me? vote: mcmc

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mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #561 on: November 06, 2018, 10:15:47 am »

vote: efhw

Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.

I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
In actuality, when WCD voted Robz I concluded he was probably town. Then I got on the Joseph wagon because it was the only other viable one. If I didn't care who got lynched, I would have just stayed on Robz. I had no reason to jump around.

Are you being sloppy or trying to mislynch me? vote: mcmc

I’m not sloppy you aren’t getting my point. Scum!Efhw knows both robz and Joseph are town and so there is no reason for you to need to stay on either wagon. You were pushing the Joseph lynch, happy to move over to the robz wagon which grew outrageously quickly and was built on nothing so it’s a super safe wagon to be on, but then it stalled and when wcd joined it your narrative for why you were on the robz wagon was going to look bad so you jumped off and went back to Joseph not caring if that prevented the robz wagon from going through.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #562 on: November 06, 2018, 10:17:54 am »

When you have a wagon in town scum absolutely thinks “how is this going to look for me tommorow and can I get off this wagon” before they think “I really need to stay and force this lynch” unless the other option is on scum and they need to prevent a partner lynch.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

pingpongsam

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #563 on: November 06, 2018, 10:55:49 am »

When you have a wagon in town scum absolutely thinks “how is this going to look for me tommorow and can I get off this wagon” before they think “I really need to stay and force this lynch” unless the other option is on scum and they need to prevent a partner lynch.

Vote: EFHW

mainly because some good points like the above but also the mcmc omgus vote.
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #564 on: November 06, 2018, 11:48:26 am »

vote: efhw

Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.

I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
In actuality, when WCD voted Robz I concluded he was probably town. Then I got on the Joseph wagon because it was the only other viable one. If I didn't care who got lynched, I would have just stayed on Robz. I had no reason to jump around.

Are you being sloppy or trying to mislynch me? vote: mcmc

I agree with EFHW that her jumping around is not scummy, I disagree that mcmc is scum here.
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2.71828.....

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #565 on: November 06, 2018, 11:49:54 am »

When you have a wagon in town scum absolutely thinks “how is this going to look for me tommorow and can I get off this wagon” before they think “I really need to stay and force this lynch” unless the other option is on scum and they need to prevent a partner lynch.

Vote: EFHW

mainly because some good points like the above but also the mcmc omgus vote.

So EFHW is scum because she is voting reactionary and in the moment. But then on D1 EFHW was super conniving scum that carefully shifted positions on wagons
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #566 on: November 06, 2018, 11:53:21 am »

So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}

Although I'm town and was the second most popular lynch target. Which means it wasn't scum at the end trying to force a mislynch and avoid a scum lynch

I kind of think we have better chance finding scum off wagon.
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #567 on: November 06, 2018, 11:54:38 am »

Yeah in reading how EoD went (sorry I wasn't here, had a meeting that went from 9 to 11 and I didn't get around early enough to log in before), I can pretty easily see scum narratives for fang, WCD, and EFHW, but not as partners. Although I just realized that they all actually involve scum!Joseph and variations on trying to bus early, then avoid the lynch or switch to him late as momentum dies on him and builds on Robz.  Vote: Joseph

Throwing lots of shade in this post. And generally I think Dylan's D2 has been relatively scummy.

Vote: Dylan
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Robz888

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #568 on: November 06, 2018, 12:19:01 pm »

I strongly suspect Joseph is town, for once. Space seems scummy.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #569 on: November 06, 2018, 12:41:14 pm »

I strongly suspect Joseph is town, for once. Space seems scummy.

How do you feel about my efhw theory?
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #570 on: November 06, 2018, 01:26:59 pm »

I strongly suspect Joseph is town, for once. Space seems scummy.

Joseph is definitely town.
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hypercube

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #571 on: November 06, 2018, 01:41:12 pm »

Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #572 on: November 06, 2018, 01:49:23 pm »

I strongly suspect Joseph is town, for once. Space seems scummy.
Yay the IC sounding like the voice of sense!
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #573 on: November 06, 2018, 01:50:10 pm »

Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
I literally told people the town win condition as one of my first posts.... That should make it obvious that I'm town....
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D2!)
« Reply #574 on: November 06, 2018, 01:58:08 pm »

Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
I literally told people the town win condition as one of my first posts.... That should make it obvious that I'm town....

That doesn’t make you town, the constant assertion that people should find you towny for that is what makes you town. So yea meta/non-risk-averse playstyle reasons.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)
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