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[EFHW]

Watching the PPS/EFHW dustup is interesting. I wonder why they are so at odds with one another.

I'm not comfortable with this post. We aren't "at odds with each other". I voted him for a reasonable reason and he has been defending himself. This characterization puts us in equivalent positions, which is not accurate and implicitly weakens my position.

[pingpongsam]

My objections to this post:

faust presented a standard scum narrative that fit the data. pps reframed it into something more sinister and then used himself as the basis for disagreeing - no data for the rest of us to evaluate. Then he smears faust while accusing faust of smearing Joseph.

But I don't think my initial vote or case was shallow. It was early Day 1 and I have a valid observation. We can disagree about its meaning, but there's enough there for an early Day 1 vote. Why didn't you question my vote on Robz? I didn't even explain that one.

I admit I am getting confused. I don’t recall suggesting your vote or case to be shallow. Possibly you are referring to someone else alongside me?

Of course Faust is not going to make a sloppy case regardless of his alignment. I mean he has but only as an exception to the rule. As such any attacks on his case are going to be hitting smooth edges instead of digging straight in.

You are very remiss to discard past game meta. Especially in regards to myself or faust. Without prior data points both of us are inscrutable in almost completely orthogonal ways. I provided you past data points to explain how my play was not scummy and you insist on ignoring that. I’ve also referenced past data points on faust that could indicate this is more likely a scum expression than town. His town meta is far more inclined to make damning questions along the lines of “have you stopped beating your wife”. I even tried use some logical mechanism in my appeal, that is, which outcome seems more likely looking at Joseph’s behavior. You, EFHW, seem hell bent on agreeing with Faust’s position but your basis for doing so is hinged around discrediting me for have a counter opinion that I have more than adequately based in experience in playing with faust.

You may accuse me of self referencing but in fact I am referencing a huge experience set that most other players share. It should be a relatively easy thing to prove or disprove based on the subjective collective experience of other players in this game (though, admittedly, this one is thinner than most). I am making claims that can be refuted with quotes from previous games which is not something infrequently done, especially in response to my play style. I would hazard a guess that less than 10% of my games did not include faust in the lineup. We have a long standing history of antagonism. It has gone through stages over the years and has matured into a mutual scrutability. So maybe, yes, I am better positioned to make this read on faust than most here but I am by no means the only one present who could refute the points if there was merit to do so.

[Robz888]

Prod acknowledged! (This is not a good sign...)

I will make a stronger attempt to get into this game shortly, just have a lot going on at the moment.

[chairs]

Yeah yeah I’m here. I wanted this game to start on Monday thinking I would be home last night (I wasn’t). I’m supposed to be home tonight though

[Joseph2302]

If someone really wanted to make a lazy case on me it would be for sheeping Joseph and subsequently Awaclus onto chairs. Problem is the chairs case is indefensible so it seems better to let this one lie from a scum standpoint, I presume?

As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.

Not super convinced that chairs is scum.
But it is the best option I can see right now

[faust]

As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.

This reasoning would imply that one of the people applying pressure is scum. Currently voting for you are EFHW and infang. Which of those do you think is scum?

[chairs]

Wait, I’m up as our probable D1 lynch? Argh. I’ll skip sleep tonight and respond.

[pingpongsam]

As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.

This reasoning would imply that one of the people applying pressure is scum. Currently voting for you are EFHW and infang. Which of those do you think is scum?

I'm thinking about the times I've played with EFHW. I don't believe we have ever been scum partners. I learn the most about someone being their scum partner. She is universally quite good. I recall her being an excellent IC. I recall her being extremely strong as scum and I recall her busting my scum fake claim in the Time Travel RMM. Granted in that case she had access to info I could not know she had but her conviction pushed it through. She is extremely persuasive and quite tenacious. Her reads are not particularly stronger than random but she will absolutely smell a scum tell. Her play style lends well to her being either alignment.

EFHW continuing onto me could potentially be trying to leverage into a mislynch and I was feeling this more strongly at the point I wrote this. I'm still trying to sort this out in my head, right now. I have moved from being certain this was a scum play to more 50/50 because usually this degree of discourse is indicative of Town v Town. That said, the best defense is a good offense and pressing into me can deter anyone from reading her initial case on me as testing the waters. If continued discourse only cements her scum read on me and she is town then I'm at a loss because the degree of engagement I've given it was wasted.

The votes on me are not in a vacuum. There is the context other players have provided concerning how they are reading me and this interaction in particular. Her continued pressure could easily be about swaying additional votes especially at a later time. I do feel, at this time, I am the primary lynch candidate outside of chairs for today. I know this can all swing rather quickly but these slow burn cases are often the hook everyone hangs their hat on as deadline approaches and all this conversation that dominated the thread leads everyone to essentially sheep.

To be most blunt and clear; while I was leveling some suspicion it was not OMGUS and my certainty was low enough to abstain from casting a vote in her direction. Furthermore, your particular reading of it I find more in line with your town play.

infang is currently unreadable to me largely due to no prior play history. Their reads and posts have kind of been all over the place. They are squarely in the null camp. I am not taking their suspicion of me as any sort of scum tell, primarily because we have never played together. I know how I tend to come across to people unexposed to me.

[pingpongsam]

As an aside to my roasting (or maybe it adds fuel, who knows).

I was trying to parse out the machinations of the setup. Anyone who has ever played with me knows setups are by far my weakest point. Can anyone explain to positive utility of the Impatient Vigilante? The only thing I could figure was if they knew the on guillotine person was scum (and how would they outside of conditions that cause a win anyhow?) they could remove them from the game post haste.

[Joseph2302]

Wait, I’m up as our probable D1 lynch? Argh. I’ll skip sleep tonight and respond.

It's an option. Currently the most preferred option

[Joseph2302]

As an aside to my roasting (or maybe it adds fuel, who knows).

I was trying to parse out the machinations of the setup. Anyone who has ever played with me knows setups are by far my weakest point. Can anyone explain to positive utility of the Impatient Vigilante? The only thing I could figure was if they knew the on guillotine person was scum (and how would they outside of conditions that cause a win anyhow?) they could remove them from the game post haste.

If they're sure the person on the guillotine is scum, then it's decent use
But if you're sure the person on L-1 is scum, then it reduces the lynch number by 1. This seems to me to be the best use for it.

Also when someone uses it, I guess we can get into claiming that role, which may hopefully out a scum

[2.71828.....]

Wait, I’m up as our probable D1 lynch? Argh. I’ll skip sleep tonight and respond.

no you aren't.  at least in my book.

[pingpongsam]

It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen. I edited the rest of my thoughts on this out because well, why provide info to scum if I don't have to? But I can now see why the role would actually be used as opposed to disused to prevent further harm.

[pingpongsam]

Wait, I’m up as our probable D1 lynch? Argh. I’ll skip sleep tonight and respond.

no you aren't.  at least in my book.

Interesting you just weighed in on this. You don't think chairs was being quite the scummy scum for lining up the lynches and queueing faust for later since hey, he's alive, so he must be scum and then saying my case on him must be scummy because I think if we believe someone might be scum we should lynch them now instead of later?

[Robz888]

Vote: Dylan for putting me on his scum list and then reconsidering.

[Joseph2302]

It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen. I edited the rest of my thoughts on this out because well, why provide info to scum if I don't have to? But I can now see why the role would actually be used as opposed to disused to prevent further harm.

Except they declare privately by PM....

[infangthief]

It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen.

Good point.

I covered another positive utility thing back at post #53. Basically it can cancel out the delayed flip handicap, on the day it is used. Like we'll wake up tomorrow none the wiser about the alignment of the day 1 lynch. But then, if we think it would be really super helpful to know that alignment, then we can politely request the Vig to shoot and get us that info.

I think that 'mechanic with a single-use tub of oil' might be a more appropriate name for the role.

[Dylan32]

Vote: Dylan for putting me on his scum list and then reconsidering.

Robz, I don't necessarily remember how my gut used to read everyone here that I've played with, but I definitely remember having to fight against gut reading you as scum.  When I posted that list, my gut said you were scum, but then as I typed it, I remembered the aforementioned fact and decided to see if there was anything specific that I saw that justified that read. I decided to hit post and then check rather than checking so I could edit my post to make sure it was just right.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow, I should go on holiday more often to get townread :-P

Back now, skimmed a bit of what's going on, but will have to re-read tomorrow to form actual opinions and stuff. Night night!

[Swowl]

It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen. I edited the rest of my thoughts on this out because well, why provide info to scum if I don't have to? But I can now see why the role would actually be used as opposed to disused to prevent further harm.

This is actually a decent point. Especially with lowering the threshhold being taken into consideration. The Vig ICing themselves at the same time as shooting could be invaluable depending on what stage of the game it takes place in.

[mcmcsalot]

People were asking so I think all the cases on pps so far have been weak, I though pps has not had great reads(the faust one in particular) but overall I think he has played.

I actually like my Dylan vote quite a bit. I’ll do some rereading and see what more I can glean tommorow.

[faust]

It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen. I edited the rest of my thoughts on this out because well, why provide info to scum if I don't have to? But I can now see why the role would actually be used as opposed to disused to prevent further harm.

Also having that shot around encourages on-guillotine players to still participate in the game the day after they are lynched.

[faust]

Ok vote: Dylan

[infangthief]

He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing).

I don't do RVS.

In that case, would you feel able to share with us why you voted for him?

[infangthief]

And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.

Joseph is around. I've been keeping up but not that much to say

Was it hard to find an answer to faust's question?

Joseph, I'm trying to work out what to make of your continued avoidance of faust's question.
Like, I'm not even really that interested in the answer, I just find it very weird that you've been 'keeping up' but neglecting to answer a question that seemed pretty central to your town claim.
If you really honestly missed seeing the question, it's at #154.