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Author Topic: M119: Towny Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 140761 times)

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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #200 on: October 30, 2018, 03:11:08 am »

This seems like as good a time as any to request a prod on Robz
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LaLight

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #201 on: October 30, 2018, 04:10:53 am »

This seems like as good a time as any to request a prod on Robz

Sent.
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (N0!)
« Reply #202 on: October 30, 2018, 04:13:30 am »

Vote count 1.2

Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
pingpongsam (2): chairs, EFHW
EFHW (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
chairs (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Not voting (4): 2.71828....., DatSwan, Robz888, infangthief

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am
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Joseph2302

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #203 on: October 30, 2018, 06:00:44 am »

And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.
Joseph is around. I've been keeping up but not that much to say
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

infangthief

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #204 on: October 30, 2018, 07:39:45 am »

vote: PPS
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #205 on: October 30, 2018, 07:49:45 am »

And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.
Joseph is around. I've been keeping up but not that much to say
Was it hard to find an answer to faust's question?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #206 on: October 30, 2018, 08:19:02 am »

Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.

This post is odd.

What is odd about it? I want efhw to expand her case. I was attempting to get her to do so by asking her opinion of a post by pps and she just said she didn’t like it and found it scummy.

I see you are again voting pps, can you explain your case for me?
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pingpongsam

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #207 on: October 30, 2018, 08:29:56 am »

5) PPS... just kind of making no sense. First off, while I agree that Space is analytical.. I would invite you to help them create a situation to "solve" at this point in the game. More importantly, why in all the hell would you vote for Chairs if you think Space is skum?
Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.

MO was short for modus operandi.

Vote: chairs

I don’t think Space is scum. I have been making that much abundantly obvious.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #208 on: October 30, 2018, 08:31:45 am »

For my part, I like those two posts too (#191 and #192).
Unvote
No thanks to PPS's defense though.

You may not like my adoration but clearly you have an affinity for poetic townery just as I do.
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infangthief

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #209 on: October 30, 2018, 08:56:19 am »

Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.

This post is odd.

What is odd about it? I want efhw to expand her case. I was attempting to get her to do so by asking her opinion of a post by pps and she just said she didn’t like it and found it scummy.

The way I see it is that, if someone is scum, then I would expect a few different people to find them scummy, but I would not expect their reasons to necessarily be the same. After all, we all bring different skills, perspectives, etc to this game - some are analytical, some have accurate gut feelings, whatever.

So I think it is odd that you expect EFHW to think PPS is scummy for the same reason that you think PPS is scummy. If you both think PPS is scummy for different reasons, that's a stronger, multi-dimensional case, not a shallower one.

Actually, reading it closely, I see that you don't actually say you think PPS's case on faust is scummy, you just say that PPS's case on faust is relevant to PPS's alignment. Would you care to clarify your own position?
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EFHW

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #210 on: October 30, 2018, 09:02:05 am »

Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question,  Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious.  Your explanation doesn't fit her play.

vote: pps

If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.

Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
Snarky response. I voted you not Space because you were giving a lazy read. They had posted since your initial read, that was based on very little, and your response to the question described them in the present - not just as you perceived them then. It doesn't feel like you were actually considering if she was scum or not. I stand by my vote.

So, you do think making bad town reads is somehow a scum tactic and you chose to ignore everything else?
If you reread the bolded parts above, you will see the basis of my vote has nothing to do with the accuracy of your read. It's about the effort put into it. You are distorting what I am saying. And what is everything else?
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infangthief

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #211 on: October 30, 2018, 09:04:33 am »

I see you are again voting pps, can you explain your case for me?

Again? I think this is the first time... Anyway, two things:

First is, in fact, PPS's case on faust.
Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.

Vote: faust
I did not think faust had smeared many targets. He had made a case against Joseph. He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing). And he'd challenged me and then WCD about the 'lynch faust day 1 plan' (I don't think any of that was smearing).
So by my count faust had smeared one target.

The second thing is what I said in #195.

PPE: 1
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pingpongsam

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #212 on: October 30, 2018, 09:12:00 am »

I see you are again voting pps, can you explain your case for me?

Again? I think this is the first time... Anyway, two things:

First is, in fact, PPS's case on faust.
Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.

Vote: faust
I did not think faust had smeared many targets. He had made a case against Joseph. He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing). And he'd challenged me and then WCD about the 'lynch faust day 1 plan' (I don't think any of that was smearing).
So by my count faust had smeared one target.

The second thing is what I said in #195.

PPE: 1

Fair points except you omitted the part where this was super early in the game and Joseph was and is my top town read. He hadn’t had time to really spread the wealth.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #213 on: October 30, 2018, 09:21:16 am »

Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question,  Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious.  Your explanation doesn't fit her play.

vote: pps

If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.

Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
Snarky response. I voted you not Space because you were giving a lazy read. They had posted since your initial read, that was based on very little, and your response to the question described them in the present - not just as you perceived them then. It doesn't feel like you were actually considering if she was scum or not. I stand by my vote.

So, you do think making bad town reads is somehow a scum tactic and you chose to ignore everything else?
If you reread the bolded parts above, you will see the basis of my vote has nothing to do with the accuracy of your read. It's about the effort put into it. You are distorting what I am saying. And what is everything else?

So, your vote was just intended as a personal insult? I don’t have a count of how many games I’ve played with Space but I’m thinking it is between 5 and 10 and in all of them I read Space as scum from start to finish. But somehow, this game, that is not at all happening. This is worth noting. It’s not lazy to note this. I didn’t make a case for them being town so that might appear lazy but it wasn't meant to be a case, it was a public exposition of a gut read. Gut reads are almost entirely what I work off of which is a fact you appear to be deliberately avoiding.

As for the everything else it was all the points I made about why you attacking me for defending Space is a terrible case. I don’t defend partners. Well, I did one time after a long history of never doing it because I thought doing so would be a good anti meta strategy. It blew up in my face so there’s a strong case to be made for me never doing it again or at least for a very long time.

All of your case is predicated on me being a typical, logic based player which I never have been. It’s popular to punish me for this and if you want to come out of the shadows and admit you are just here to punish me for not conforming to your ideas of how everyone should play the game then at least I could respect your honesty and it certainly wouldn’t make you in any way different from several others past and present.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #214 on: October 30, 2018, 09:28:08 am »

If someone really wanted to make a lazy case on me it would be for sheeping Joseph and subsequently Awaclus onto chairs. Problem is the chairs case is indefensible so it seems better to let this one lie from a scum standpoint, I presume?

As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.
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EFHW

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #215 on: October 30, 2018, 09:58:00 am »

Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.
Do you mean to say that if you are voting for someone, you will always think that all their posts are scummy?
No, but if I found that one towny I likely wouldn't still be voting him. My saying it's scummy isnt that helpful for mcmc since I could be biased.

Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.

Putting the post in again for reference:
Here is the post:

So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.

Vote: Joseph

Occam’s Razor or something. Either he is not so clever, transparent manipulative scum or he had very much the same response I did when reading my role PM that detailed the town wincon that caused me to consider A) what does scum’s look like and B) whether knowledge of town win on could be a towntell. I’m leaning toward the latter.

Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.

Vote: faust
My objections to this post:

faust presented a standard scum narrative that fit the data. pps reframed it into something more sinister and then used himself as the basis for disagreeing - no data for the rest of us to evaluate. Then he smears faust while accusing faust of smearing Joseph.

But I don't think my initial vote or case was shallow. It was early Day 1 and I have a valid observation. We can disagree about its meaning, but there's enough there for an early Day 1 vote. Why didn't you question my vote on Robz? I didn't even explain that one.
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EFHW

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #216 on: October 30, 2018, 09:59:57 am »

Nothing personal was intended at any point. And I'm not thinking about past games and metas. Just the current game.
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infangthief

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #217 on: October 30, 2018, 10:08:02 am »

Yeh, Request prod on chairs
Been gone even longer than Robz. Did he mean he wanted the game to end on Monday rather than start on Monday??
And WCD is suspiciously absent too, ever since calling out Robz and DatSwan for inactivity.
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infangthief

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #218 on: October 30, 2018, 10:18:14 am »

And Joseph has been gone the longest of the lot, except of course for a single post this morning saying 'I'm watching and have nothing to say'.

Joseph >> chairs >> Robz >> WCD >> 24hrs
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LaLight

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #219 on: October 30, 2018, 10:28:29 am »

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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #220 on: October 30, 2018, 10:46:01 am »

He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing).
I don't do RVS.
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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #221 on: October 30, 2018, 10:49:53 am »

The EFHW/PPS exchange is fascinating. Every time one of them posts, I think "Well, that's a solid point."
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #222 on: October 30, 2018, 10:52:20 am »

Yeh, Request prod on chairs
Been gone even longer than Robz. Did he mean he wanted the game to end on Monday rather than start on Monday??
And WCD is suspiciously absent too, ever since calling out Robz and DatSwan for inactivity.

Hi! Not suspiciously absent...just in the midst of grading midterms.

Watching the PPS/EFHW dustup is interesting. I wonder why they are so at odds with one another. I am between classes right now, but will have more time later today.
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #223 on: October 30, 2018, 10:55:47 am »

The EFHW/PPS exchange is fascinating. Every time one of them posts, I think "Well, that's a solid point."

Yes! This!  I thought PPS's first slap back was kind of defensive, but in later posts he seems to be articulating himself much better. I find myself agreeing with him more than not, but EFHW isn't wrong in some of her replies.  It is one of the most compelling clashes of playstyles that I am aware of in that PPS is so cogent in his explanation.
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EFHW

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #224 on: October 30, 2018, 11:29:42 am »

I agree with whoever said it's time for mcmc to state his views on pps.
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