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[faust]

Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.

Do you mean to say that if you are voting for someone, you will always think that all their posts are scummy?

[EFHW]

Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.

Do you mean to say that if you are voting for someone, you will always think that all their posts are scummy?

No, but if I found that one towny I likely wouldn't still be voting him. My saying it's scummy isnt that helpful for mcmc since I could be biased.

[2.71828.....]

@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?

I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie

Can you pin down why?

not one specific post, but just generally how he responded to different posts and how he responded.


Next topic: do you think my rationale is adequate?  Should I townread mcmc for it?

[faust]

@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?

I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie

Can you pin down why?

not one specific post, but just generally how he responded to different posts and how he responded.


Next topic: do you think my rationale is adequate?  Should I townread mcmc for it?

Well I can't see much of a rationale here.

[Dylan32]

@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?

I thought his series of posts around the time of his drunk ama comment sounded like authentic observations instead of made up scum stuff.

[Dylan32]

@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?

I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie

Guess it was the same thing. Replying as I catch up, so I didn't know this was the same thing you saw.

[Dylan32]

Strong town read: Awaclus, e.
Normal town read: mcmc, faust, space
Normal scum read: EFHW, Robz (although I think I always tend to scumread him, I'll reread him after this post).

Everyone else is either null or just pretty neutral.

Can you explain your strong townread on E?

That was is more gut than anything I think. His 3 posts in a row with reads in the middle came across towny when I read them.

[2.71828.....]

@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?

I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie

Can you pin down why?

not one specific post, but just generally how he responded to different posts and how he responded.


Next topic: do you think my rationale is adequate?  Should I townread mcmc for it?

Well I can't see much of a rationale here.

so no.

Do you think mcmc is town or do you just have no opinion at this time and consider my read premature?

[pingpongsam]

Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.

In between your town read post and fang's question,  Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious.  Your explanation doesn't fit her play.

vote: pps

If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.

Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.

Snarky response. I voted you not Space because you were giving a lazy read. They had posted since your initial read, that was based on very little, and your response to the question described them in the present - not just as you perceived them then. It doesn't feel like you were actually considering if she was scum or not. I stand by my vote.

So, you do think making bad town reads is somehow a scum tactic and you chose to ignore everything else?

[faust]

Do you think mcmc is town or do you just have no opinion at this time and consider my read premature?

I don't really feel like answering this right now.

[mcmcsalot]

So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?

Is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with that question or was it just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?

Yes if you are merely questioning their town reads to generate more conversation I think it’s lazy and less than as helpful as you could be pushing a self made case or going down a line of questioning that leads to one. Seeing as you didn’t answer my question I’m going to guess this is the case. You inflate your own contributions and allow for more “I think this” statements that don’t help us out as much as they serve to make everyone seem active.

[faust]

So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?

Is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with that question or was it just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?

Sorry this was overly snarky. I guess what I want to say is I prefer to keep the reasons for my inquiry to myself.

[mcmcsalot]

Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.

Do you mean to say that if you are voting for someone, you will always think that all their posts are scummy?

No, but if I found that one towny I likely wouldn't still be voting him. My saying it's scummy isnt that helpful for mcmc since I could be biased.

Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.

[mcmcsalot]

So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?

Is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with that question or was it just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?

Sorry this was overly snarky. I guess what I want to say is I prefer to keep the reasons for my inquiry to myself.

Totally reasonable.

[mcmcsalot]

Dylan do you think your reads list was premature and has very very little weight behind actual reads? If so what motivated you to make the reads list and please be as specific as possible.

[Awaclus]

Making town more informed helps town. If you have found a way to make town more informed without also sharing that information with scum, I'm all ears.

You could focus on information that helps town and doesn't help scum, though. Townreads help scum and don't help town.

[SpaceAnemone]

OK. Sounds reasonable. I'm going to leave my vote here for a bit though because I feel like calling PPS's bluff. Or fluff, whichever.

As for the scum-value/town-value of that particular faust post, I would recommend comparing #69 with #36.

Post #36 is faust's opening post, and makes some suggestions to town about how we should play this. It also serves as a warning to the more hammer-hungry players (hi, PPS!) not to jump in too quickly, or to risk more town annoyance than usual if they do.

Post #69 is the one I commented on in the first place. It's an observation that doesn't need to be made so far in advance, because stating at the point that claims start to be made is entirely sufficient for town. The ones who benefit from the post are the scums who get told that they might want to consider pushing their claims earlier than they may have thought from prior experience. Unless he secretly thinks it's bad for scum and is hoping to make them make bad 1v1 decisions... I considered that too, but decided to comment anyway because it didn't seem super-likely so early on.

Would you agree that #69 has faust-value, whatever faust's alignment is?

I was talking about #69 all along as being the one I was interested in as far as faust's alignment goes, so I don't get why you're asking this here. Do you mean to ask whether I'm interested in #36 for this purpose? If so, then no, that was a standard sort of opener I think faust would make as either alignment.

[SpaceAnemone]

Making town more informed helps town. If you have found a way to make town more informed without also sharing that information with scum, I'm all ears.

You could focus on information that helps town and doesn't help scum, though. Townreads help scum and don't help town.

Townreads most definitely help town when I'm town, and posting townreads has hurt me as scum because it's quite hard to pivot when you're trying to look like you're being logical and principled in who you're trying to lynch off.

I know this is a thing with you, and that I'm unlikely to convince you otherwise, but I feel for the sake of the more newbie players, it's worth mentioning that there are some opinions that not everyone shares.

[pingpongsam]

Just look at that beautiful prose and yet I am the bad guy for townrreading that?

[infangthief]

Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.

This post is odd.

[infangthief]

Just look at that beautiful prose and yet I am the bad guy for townrreading that?

And I'm not quite sure what this relates to. The two posts just before it? You seem quite keen to defend Space, but your methods are a little strange to me. How did your earlier townread of Space have anything to do with those two posts which have just appeared now?

[Swowl]

Sorry for the delay in jumping in, like I mentioned the weekend was a little rough for me.

I had not been keeping up, but I am caught up now.

Things I am late to the party on:

1) Joseph asking for the wincons. My new philosophy from a few games back is to assign skum points to any open forum questions like this. Reason being essentially what faust pointed out.

Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions

2) This...

Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions

In the first post there is a link to the setup that has all the samples. The only thing changed is i added the flavor names into them all.

I followed that link a couple of weeks ago, but there was something I still wasn't clear about.
- town win condition is to have 2 scum dead and 1 scum on guillotine.
- scum win condition is to have at least as many scum alive as town (and on guillotine counts as alive).
So what happens if there are 3 players remaining: 1 scum who is not voting, 1 vig who is voting for the scum player, 1 VT on guillotine.
Now if the vig shoots, then the scum player immediately goes on the guillotine and both win conditions are met simultaneously. What happens?

Followed by this...

Faust, why do you like day 1 so much?

Because I'm alive on D1!

But seriously, that's not all. D1 is your purest form of social deduction. You have to figure out who's scum just by tone and without no concrete info. It's a special kind of challenge and it is just super satisfying to nail down a scum on the first Day.

I have a suggestion, and I might in fact be semi-serious about this.
I understand you have a track record of being killed first night. So how about we lynch you day 1? The set-up says the on-guillotine player cannot be night-killed. So if we lynch you day 1 then that guarantees that we benefit from your insight for day 1 AND day 2.

You'd be ok with that wouldn't you...?

Followed by this...

Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions

thanks

so the scum win condition is "You win when there are as many or more living Mafia as there are living non-Mafia or if nothing can prevent the same. (Someone on guillotine is still alive.)"
So on guillotine counts as alive for town, but effectively as dead for scum (if there's only 1 left)

.... is probably not Skum!Fang. Messed up thought process, followed by an outrageous plan, followed by self correction before anyone says anything. Not getting skum vibes from Fang here. No one really pushed them for it, so I guess this is just me stating I am leaning town on Fang currently.


3) Skum points to Chairs. Though I do understand their explanation a few posts later regarding the timeline they had in mind.

Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps

4) Fang making a very good point. More town points.

There's been a couple of things that seem backwards.

First faust:

Say you have two competing claims. In standard mafia you can just lynch one, if they're scum, lynch the other.

Surely if the first one is scum you don't lynch the other?

Now chairs:

Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps

How can surviving a night prove that someone isn't scum?

Or is it me who's got it backwards? Anyway, not sure that saying such things is necessarily scummy, just find it a bit odd that we've had two things like that now.

5) PPS... just kind of making no sense. First off, while I agree that Space is analytical.. I would invite you to help them create a situation to "solve" at this point in the game. More importantly, why in all the hell would you vote for Chairs if you think Space is skum?

Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.

MO was short for modus operandi.

Vote: chairs

Pretty much all of that has been touched on already, but wanted my opinion out on a few things. I will be able to be active from here on in. See you tomorrow, it is late here.

[infangthief]

For my part, I like those two posts too (#191 and #192).
Unvote
No thanks to PPS's defense though.

In #191 you completely missed the point I was trying to draw you towards, but that's fine, I probably just worded my question badly and anyway the thing that stood out to me maybe didn't stand out for you. I like that we're all different.

PPE: DatSwan!

[infangthief]

.... is probably not Skum!Fang.

Thanks, but I should point out that of the 4 posts you used to reach that conclusion, 2 were by me and 2 were by Joseph. We may both be Brits, but we're not the same person!

In fact, I didn't back down from my plan 'before anyone says anything', I intentionally left my plan out there for a bit and collected responses from faust, Awaclus, WCD and EFGHW before backing down.

Anyway, good to have you around again.

[infangthief]

And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.