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Author Topic: M119: Towny Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 140649 times)

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pingpongsam

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2018, 09:33:18 pm »

Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question,  Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious.  Your explanation doesn't fit her play.

vote: pps

If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.

Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
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Dylan32

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #151 on: October 29, 2018, 12:10:07 am »

Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question,  Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious.  Your explanation doesn't fit her play.

vote: pps

If Space doesn't have anything really serious, just fluff, and usually they are analytical (e.g. serious), pps's explanation would seem to match your description of their play, and would justify him reading them different than his normal gut reaction.

One question pertaining to reading space based on pps's description would be: is uninformed town or scum more likely to be mostly fluffy at this point in D1?
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Dylan32

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #152 on: October 29, 2018, 12:18:24 am »

Strong town read: Awaclus, e.
Normal town read: mcmc, faust, space
Normal scum read: EFHW, Robz (although I think I always tend to scumread him, I'll reread him after this post).

Everyone else is either null or just pretty neutral.
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Dylan32

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #153 on: October 29, 2018, 12:19:45 am »

lolz, Robz has like 2 posts. Yeah, my default is just to scumread Robz. Move him to null.
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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #154 on: October 29, 2018, 02:57:38 am »

So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.

Vote: Joseph
Not true. I didn't notice that they were on the other link.
Genuine mistake
But it should be obvious that I'm town since I knew the town win condition word for word but not the scum one.....
Can you point me to a post from you before LaLight pointed you to the link with the win conditions that shows that you knew the town win condition?
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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #155 on: October 29, 2018, 03:01:21 am »

@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
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infangthief

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #156 on: October 29, 2018, 05:35:32 am »

Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?

Space being all spacey, hi space!

Good to see you, Mcmc! Was it the word "pedant" that gave me away? :-P

Hmm. This seems a bit contrived. Like you tried to find something - anything - that you could be pedantic about in order to seem like your natural self.
I think your question was a good one; some of the set-up analysis does seem a little premature. But the post that you applied it to (#69) seems like a rather strange choice. Why not my post #78? Or Joseph's pre-occupation with win conditions?

I'll go with vote: Space for now.

And I'm very much in two minds about Pingpongsam.
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infangthief

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #157 on: October 29, 2018, 05:53:24 am »

There's been a couple of things that seem backwards.

First faust:
Say you have two competing claims. In standard mafia you can just lynch one, if they're scum, lynch the other.
Surely if the first one is scum you don't lynch the other?

Now chairs:
Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
How can surviving a night prove that someone isn't scum?

Or is it me who's got it backwards? Anyway, not sure that saying such things is necessarily scummy, just find it a bit odd that we've had two things like that now.

Faust is an extremely capable player as both Town and Mafia. This frequently leads to him being prime night kill real estate when he is Town in any game where a different strong night kill choice does not exist.

chairs... Man I made myself a note in my QT to not argue with you this game.
But I think you've missed my point here. I understand that faust has a reputation for night 1 kill.

My point was just that you said 'isn't scum' where I think you meant 'is scum'.
But now that I look at it again, the thing that concerns me is that even if we swap 'isn't' for 'is', I still think you're wrong.
Faust can't be proved scum that way. There's plenty of WIFOM isn't there? I mean, right now, scum is sitting there thinking "excellent we'll leave faust alive and town will do our work for us".
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #158 on: October 29, 2018, 07:26:30 am »

@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?

I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #159 on: October 29, 2018, 08:18:27 am »

Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?

Space being all spacey, hi space!

Good to see you, Mcmc! Was it the word "pedant" that gave me away? :-P

Hmm. This seems a bit contrived. Like you tried to find something - anything - that you could be pedantic about in order to seem like your natural self.
I think your question was a good one; some of the set-up analysis does seem a little premature. But the post that you applied it to (#69) seems like a rather strange choice. Why not my post #78? Or Joseph's pre-occupation with win conditions?

Because I was particularly thinking about faust and what he said, so I commented about his post. It was a direct question because I thought the answer would help me read him. To me, his post felt like it only directed scum play, rather than informing town play, and I wasn't sure that was a good idea at that point in the game. However, faust isn't someone who makes poorly-thought-out posts just for the sake of it (unlike other players I can name, probably including myself!), so either he thought there was intrinsic town value, or he expected to be able to advise scumbuddies subtly and not to get picked on.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #160 on: October 29, 2018, 08:54:13 am »

Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.

With regard to the reason for fluff...I think it depends on who it is and where we are at in the day. I’m know I’m fluffy, but primarily because I appreciate the human part of the game play and I find that I am much better at reading folks when I have a sense of who they are. I’m exactly the opposite of the analytical folks in that way, I guess.

I like pps’s explanation of voting for him because he might have bad reads is asinine, but all the rest of that post is rather more defensive than seems necessary. Especially the pro tip of what he’d do if he were scum. But it seems like he’s maybe more annoyed with EFHW than scrambling to cover his ass.

Vote: EFHW for a handful of one or two line posts but very little engagement or perspective otherwise. Although I’m not sure how much longer DatSwan and Robz get a weekend pass for not being around before it starts to look scummy.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #161 on: October 29, 2018, 09:03:35 am »

Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question,  Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious.  Your explanation doesn't fit her play.

vote: pps

Efhw what do you think about the post where pps votes for Faust?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #162 on: October 29, 2018, 09:04:16 am »

Strong town read: Awaclus, e.
Normal town read: mcmc, faust, space
Normal scum read: EFHW, Robz (although I think I always tend to scumread him, I'll reread him after this post).

Everyone else is either null or just pretty neutral.

Can you explain your strong townread on E?
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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #163 on: October 29, 2018, 09:05:44 am »

@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?

I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie
Can you pin down why?
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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #164 on: October 29, 2018, 09:07:24 am »

Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
Please go into more detail.
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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #165 on: October 29, 2018, 09:08:35 am »

Faust can't be proved scum that way. There's plenty of WIFOM isn't there? I mean, right now, scum is sitting there thinking "excellent we'll leave faust alive and town will do our work for us".
I think chairs is using a stilistic device known as hyperbole.
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Awaclus

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #166 on: October 29, 2018, 09:27:05 am »

Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
Please go into more detail.

Can you pin down why?

Why are you encouraging people to talk about their townreads?
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infangthief

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #167 on: October 29, 2018, 09:40:52 am »

Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?

Space being all spacey, hi space!

Good to see you, Mcmc! Was it the word "pedant" that gave me away? :-P

Hmm. This seems a bit contrived. Like you tried to find something - anything - that you could be pedantic about in order to seem like your natural self.
I think your question was a good one; some of the set-up analysis does seem a little premature. But the post that you applied it to (#69) seems like a rather strange choice. Why not my post #78? Or Joseph's pre-occupation with win conditions?

Because I was particularly thinking about faust and what he said, so I commented about his post. It was a direct question because I thought the answer would help me read him. To me, his post felt like it only directed scum play, rather than informing town play, and I wasn't sure that was a good idea at that point in the game. However, faust isn't someone who makes poorly-thought-out posts just for the sake of it (unlike other players I can name, probably including myself!), so either he thought there was intrinsic town value, or he expected to be able to advise scumbuddies subtly and not to get picked on.

OK. Sounds reasonable. I'm going to leave my vote here for a bit though because I feel like calling PPS's bluff. Or fluff, whichever.

As for the scum-value/town-value of that particular faust post, I would recommend comparing #69 with #36. Would you agree that #69 has faust-value, whatever faust's alignment is?
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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #168 on: October 29, 2018, 09:45:05 am »

Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
Please go into more detail.

Can you pin down why?

Why are you encouraging people to talk about their townreads?
Because I think it will help town.
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Awaclus

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #169 on: October 29, 2018, 10:09:08 am »

Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
Please go into more detail.

Can you pin down why?

Why are you encouraging people to talk about their townreads?
Because I think it will help town.

I don't see how making scum more informed helps town.
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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #170 on: October 29, 2018, 10:15:12 am »

Making town more informed helps town. If you have found a way to make town more informed without also sharing that information with scum, I'm all ears.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #171 on: October 29, 2018, 10:33:42 am »

So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?

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faust

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #172 on: October 29, 2018, 10:37:47 am »

So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
Is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with that question or was it just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
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EFHW

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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #173 on: October 29, 2018, 10:38:24 am »

Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?

Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question,  Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious.  Your explanation doesn't fit her play.

vote: pps

If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.

Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
Snarky response. I voted you not Space because you were giving a lazy read. They had posted since your initial read, that was based on very little, and your response to the question described them in the present - not just as you perceived them then. It doesn't feel like you were actually considering if she was scum or not. I stand by my vote.
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Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D1!)
« Reply #174 on: October 29, 2018, 10:49:34 am »


Efhw what do you think about the post where pps votes for Faust?

Here is the post:

So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.

Vote: Joseph

Occam’s Razor or something. Either he is not so clever, transparent manipulative scum or he had very much the same response I did when reading my role PM that detailed the town wincon that caused me to consider A) what does scum’s look like and B) whether knowledge of town win on could be a towntell. I’m leaning toward the latter.

Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.

Vote: faust

I don't like or agree with this post. In fact, it looks scummy to me. Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.
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